Virgin Blue achieves record 93.8% on time performance in Oct.

[straitman]

I believe that some people here need to sit back and think a little as this is off topic and degenerated into an emotional argument.

Having said that I’ll give you my 2 bobs worth. A long time ago in a galaxy far far away….
Oops wrong story.

A long time ago I had some issues with QF and the way they ran their business and made a personal decision that I’d not fly with them and I’d direct all my business to Ansett. Everything was fine for a while until Air NZ bought and stripped the airline and surprise, surprise Ansett became little more than a memory. I lost a few hundred thousand FF points (big deal) but a lot of people (many friends included) lost their jobs and a big swag of their superannuation etc. Some couldn’t take it and lost their lives! ……….my comments on Air NZ/Ansett aren’t from the press they are from peoples first hand experiences and my own research and I’ve only flown Air NZ once since the Ansett debacle as there was no other choice. …..there’s also a story there for another occasion.

What to do? Eventually I decided to join the QF FF scheme as it’s the only scheme that works well enough for me with my current domestic and international flying patterns. Do I think QF is the best? No. Do I believe they have wonderful in-flight service etc? No. They do however go where and when I need to go and on most occasions I can avoid the sardine 737 and its inadequate seat pitch.

Why don’t I fly Virgin? I have in the past and have the following problems with them which far outweigh the problems that I have with QF, and please remember I’m speaking from my own experiences.
They fly sardine 737 aircraft with inadequate seat pitch for a tall person. (Great business model but wrong a/c for me)
They still require people on many occasions to walk on the tarmac amongst other very noisy aircraft. Taxying turbine a/c can easily reach above 100 db and the daily noise exposure before permanent hearing damage is 15 min at 100 db and 7.5 min at 103 db. Where does this stand from and OH&S perspective? Not satisfactory for me as I already spend excessive periods of time around turbines (even with level 5 hearing protection)
The responses to the raising of issues vary between mediocre to ok at best.
Late at night when waiting for a late a/c to arrive there is no availability of information for arrival time and then (more importantly) the ensuing departure time.

Enough said. Put simply I’m the type of customer that companies spend million on advertising to capture however once they have captured will stay with their brand loyalty until they really piss me off.

QF did it years ago, Air NZ have done it with Ansett and more recently Virgin does things in a way that don’t work for me.

Enough ranting. Have a safe and happy New Year everyone.

 

[pauly7]

Congrats to Virgin!

I had a quick look at Qantas and they are only 4.8% behind and given they run a much bigger more complicated fleet is a great acheivement as well.

I think we are lucky in Aus to have such good stats, in my opinion you can't really pull Virgin, Qantas, Jet* apart in this area anymore - which is good for people like me who have to fly all three airlines!!

 

[clifford]

I believe that some people here need to sit back and think a little as this is off topic and degenerated into an emotional argument.

Having said that I’ll give you my 2 bobs worth. A long time ago in a galaxy far far away….
Oops wrong story.

A long time ago I had some issues with QF and the way they ran their business and made a personal decision that I’d not fly with them and I’d direct all my business to Ansett. Everything was fine for a while until Air NZ bought and stripped the airline and surprise, surprise Ansett became little more than a memory. I lost a few hundred thousand FF points (big deal) but a lot of people (many friends included) lost their jobs and a big swag of their superannuation etc. Some couldn’t take it and lost their lives! ……….my comments on Air NZ/Ansett aren’t from the press they are from peoples first hand experiences and my own research and I’ve only flown Air NZ once since the Ansett debacle as there was no other choice. …..there’s also a story there for another occasion.

What to do? Eventually I decided to join the QF FF scheme as it’s the only scheme that works well enough for me with my current domestic and international flying patterns. Do I think QF is the best? No. Do I believe they have wonderful in-flight service etc? No. They do however go where and when I need to go and on most occasions I can avoid the sardine 737 and its inadequate seat pitch.

Why don’t I fly Virgin? I have in the past and have the following problems with them which far outweigh the problems that I have with QF, and please remember I’m speaking from my own experiences.
They fly sardine 737 aircraft with inadequate seat pitch for a tall person. (Great business model but wrong a/c for me)
They still require people on many occasions to walk on the tarmac amongst other very noisy aircraft. Taxying turbine a/c can easily reach above 100 db and the daily noise exposure before permanent hearing damage is 15 min at 100 db and 7.5 min at 103 db. Where does this stand from and OH&S perspective? Not satisfactory for me as I already spend excessive periods of time around turbines (even with level 5 hearing protection)
The responses to the raising of issues vary between mediocre to ok at best.
Late at night when waiting for a late a/c to arrive there is no availability of information for arrival time and then (more importantly) the ensuing departure time.

Enough said. Put simply I’m the type of customer that companies spend million on advertising to capture however once they have captured will stay with their brand loyalty until they really piss me off.

QF did it years ago, Air NZ have done it with Ansett and more recently Virgin does things in a way that don’t work for me.

Enough ranting. Have a safe and happy New Year everyone.

You know, Bill,

Have to agree with everything you've said.

Happy New Year!



PS, for those people that think that DJ is wonderful and the likes of every other LCC in the world are ****, they need to consider that they're the same animal. If they don't think so, they should actually try it before mouthing off.

 

[Yada Yada]

PS, for those people that think that DJ is wonderful and the likes of every other LCC in the world are ****, they need to consider that they're the same animal. If they don't think so, they should actually try it before mouthing off.

I've flown a few LCC's in my time and do not think they are all the same animal. While many of them have primary similarities (e.g. a unified fleet, pay for on-board meals and drinks), they also have distinct differences (e.g. seat allocations vs none).

I'm a regular Virgin Blue customer and prefer flying them to QF domestic. In my experience Virgin Blue offers a better product than QF. Their planes are new and comfortable with better seat pitch, they have airport lounges, their OLCI works better, their crews are friendlier, their OTP is better, their prices are better. The only thing QF has that DJ does not is free on-board food and drink, but this is a minor thing. QF usually only offer a few cookies and drink. If you do happen to fly at the times they provide a full meal, the quality is not great anyway. If you use the lounge before flying then you don't usually want on-board refreshments on short-haul flights. On longer flights the quality of DJ's paid-for food is heaps better, and you get to choose what you want.

Low cost does not automatically mean low service. However legacy airlines such as QF realise that their days are numbered if they don't change drastically. JQ owes its existence to this very fact.

 

[straitman]

Low cost does not automatically mean low service. However legacy airlines such as QF realise that their days are numbered if they don't change drastically. JQ owes its existence to this very fact.

Yada Yada,

Whilst I understand with the sentiment I have to say that this is huge over simplification from a business perspective. :-|

 

[Yada Yada]

Yada Yada,

Whilst I understand with the sentiment I have to say that this is huge over simplification from a business perspective. :-|

Bill - I'm not sure which part of my post you feel is an over simplification. Perhaps I did not explain myself well enough.

My point that low cost does not automatically mean low service holds true in the case of Virgin Blue. Their service is equal to or better than QF economy.

With regards to my comment "legacy airlines such as QF realise that their days are numbered if they don't change drastically. JQ owes its existence to this very fact" - it is true that QF could not compete with Virgin Blue due to their higher cost base and created Jetstar as a result. Any legacy airline that has to compete with an LCC would find itself in the same situation and would have to make major changes to compete.

 

[Mal]

Any legacy airline that has to compete with an LCC would find itself in the same situation and would have to make major changes to compete.

A very good example is Aer Lingus vs RyanAir...

 

[stryker]

I've flown a few LCC's in my time and do not think they are all the same animal. While many of them have primary similarities (e.g. a unified fleet, pay for on-board meals and drinks), they also have distinct differences (e.g. seat allocations vs none).

I'm a regular Virgin Blue customer and prefer flying them to QF domestic. In my experience Virgin Blue offers a better product than QF. Their planes are new and comfortable with better seat pitch, they have airport lounges, their OLCI works better, their crews are friendlier, their OTP is better, their prices are better. The only thing QF has that DJ does not is free on-board food and drink, but this is a minor thing. QF usually only offer a few cookies and drink. If you do happen to fly at the times they provide a full meal, the quality is not great anyway. If you use the lounge before flying then you don't usually want on-board refreshments on short-haul flights. On longer flights the quality of DJ's paid-for food is heaps better, and you get to choose what you want.

Low cost does not automatically mean low service. However legacy airlines such as QF realise that their days are numbered if they don't change drastically. JQ owes its existence to this very fact.

I have flown DJ, AK, DD, TR, U2, FR, and BD (and probably a few others too) many times and have found them all to be much of a muchness, quite honestly, give or take a few issues, ie basically quite good.

I don't really care about assigned seats, because usually you can get a reasonable seat (by elbowing the grannies out of the way), and the flight sectors tend to be reasonably short, anyway.

What it comes down to, in my opinion, is cost. Most LCC's are dirt cheap, so you can put up with a few idiosyncracies.

As DJ is pricing itself as a "full-service" airline, but actually providing a no-frills level of service, I don't think it is particularly good value when compared with Qantas. As for the hosties... (sorry, but I'm over the age of 15, and my IQ is over 60, I think...).

Just my little opinion...

 

[dajop]

As DJ is pricing itself as a "full-service" airline, but actually providing a no-frills level of service, I don't think it is particularly good value when compared with Qantas.

Do you miss your "newspaper in the morning" and "beer in the afternoon"?

 

[Yada Yada]

As DJ is pricing itself as a "full-service" airline, but actually providing a no-frills level of service, I don't think it is particularly good value when compared with Qantas. As for the hosties... (sorry, but I'm over the age of 15, and my IQ is over 60, I think...).

Just my little opinion...

Hmmm... I must be missing something. What is it that Qantas provides, that Virgin Blue does not, that provides better value?

If you are implying that the Virgin Blue hosties are dumb teenagers, then I think you need to take another flight and have a closer look! :-|

 

[mainly tailfirst]

Hmmm... I must be missing something. What is it that Qantas provides, that Virgin Blue does not, that provides better value?

If you are implying that the Virgin Blue hosties are dumb teenagers, then I think you need to take another flight and have a closer look! :-|

I think the implication was more that the staff treat their pax as dumb teenagers, not they themselves are dumb.
In the early days, I did tire of the cheesy 'everything is permanently great' style of service, but that has changed. When I last flew them last year, I found them to be pretty professional and enthusiastic.

mt

 

[straitman]

I think the implication was more that the staff treat their pax as dumb teenagers, not they themselves are dumb.
In the early days, I did tire of the cheesy 'everything is permanently great' style of service, but that has changed. When I last flew them last year, I found them to be pretty professional and enthusiastic.

mt

I'm glad to hear and that will certainly help in my considerations toward using them again.

 

[stryker]

I think the implication was more that the staff treat their pax as dumb teenagers, not they themselves are dumb.
In the early days, I did tire of the cheesy 'everything is permanently great' style of service, but that has changed. When I last flew them last year, I found them to be pretty professional and enthusiastic.

mt

Thanks mt, I think you got the gist of what I was eluding to.

Haven't flown DJ for a few months, but I don't think they would have changed in that time.

The hosties (a generic term) may be over 18, but their target audience still seems to be under 21 (I guess this is modelled on Richard Branson's approach to selling CD's and DVD's, etc, etc).

When you want to get from A to B with the minimum of fuss, you don't need all that cough.

 

[ansettrule]

I think that is a good performance by Virgin Blue. However I may cause a little bit of anger here, but that is what the forum does,it gives you a chance to give your view.
Virgin Blue in my mind is only here because AIR NZ killed of Ansett Australia by stripping the airline of there money.Ansett's death gave them a free shot at 30-40% of the market and with no other competition who was going to stop them???.
Granted Ansett did have trouble when Virgin came here and Richard Branson stated this himself but I can't and will never forgive Air NZ for what they did to Ansett. I have travelled to New Zealand 5 times before and will NEVER go back again after what they did.I also wll NEVER fly Air NZ again and no members of my family will either, we will lead a campain for the rest of our lives telling people not to fly with Air NZ.It is a pity because when we have flown with them they have been good to us, but this will never happen again.

I also believe that this country need's and want's a new full service airline to take the fight up to Qantas. I think that even Qantas are taking the travelling public for granted now there is no serious competition to take them on.
Jetstar is just a joke,another ploy by Qantas to grab even more market share and create a enviroment where they rule the sky's and the federal government will do nothing to stop them. Protection is one thing but making the national carrier safe from any type of competition is wrong and should be stopped.

Ansett Australia should still be in this country and I will never stop loving the airline that I only travelled with.I feel so sad for the former employees who are still waiting for the entitlements they are owed. Once again the government looked after themselves first by making a PROFIT from the misrey
of everyday Australians. They should hang there heads in shame and they should be held accountable for what they did.SHAME.

The australian aviation market need's a new competitor to shake it up a bit but i seriously believe that the government will never allow this as it will harm Qantas and really we couldn't ahev that could we??

When I travel now I have 2 chioces to make fly Qantas/Jetstar or give more money to Richard Branson and fly Virgin Blue-- OH the pain I think that I would rahter drive and give the money to Shell and Coles Express.

I am sorry to upset people but I feel strongly about this 1 point AIR NEW ZEALAND deserve nothing from us and we should give them nothing.
Nobody could ever be as GOOD AS ANSETT AUSTRALIA.
Long live the ANSETT spirit it will never die we won't let it!!!!!
Share your views.

 

[Yada Yada]

Haven't flown DJ for a few months, but I don't think they would have changed in that time.

The hosties (a generic term) may be over 18, but their target audience still seems to be under 21 (I guess this is modelled on Richard Branson's approach to selling CD's and DVD's, etc, etc).

When you want to get from A to B with the minimum of fuss, you don't need all that cough.

Curious... I took dozens of flights with Virgin Bue last year and did not find any of them to be anything like that.

 

[Yada Yada]

Virgin Blue in my mind is only here because AIR NZ killed of Ansett Australia by stripping the airline of there money.Ansett's death gave them a free shot at 30-40% of the market and with no other competition who was going to stop them???.
Granted Ansett did have trouble when Virgin came here and Richard Branson stated this himself but I can't and will never forgive Air NZ for what they did to Ansett.

I liked Ansett a lot, and flew with them most of the time. I lost a boatload of Global Rewards points when they failed.

However, they were not squeaky clean themselves. They bear some responsibility for the failure of Compass Airlines, along with QF, due to their highly anti-competitive behaviour.

I'm not sure why you are against Virgin Blue... unlike AN, they have kept airfares low. Without them, QF would still be charging outrageous fares.

Reg Ansett's grandson runs a small air charter company in Victoria. You never know... maybe one day he'll get into the big game. A lot of people would like to see that.

 

[dajop]

The hosties (a generic term) may be over 18, but their target audience still seems to be under 21

I too find this and some of your other comments about DJ's "hosties" contrary to my experience. I have been occassionally flying DJ for work over the last few months, and have found them completely professional, and completely free of the attempted humour that was there in my earlier DJ leisure flights (about 3 years ago). Granted though most of my recent flights have been CBR-MEL at 5pm which is largely a business flight (although some MEL-SYDs and a BNE-MEL as well), so it could be that crews target their behaviour to the route & market segment catered for by a particular flight.

 

[serfty]

Curious... I took dozens of flights with Virgin Bue last year and did not find any of them to be anything like that.

Maybe one's demeanor/attire/countenance has something to do with it ...

 

[Yada Yada]

Maybe one's demeanor/attire/countenance has something to do with it ...

:shock: I must stop frowning!

 

[serfty]

:shock: I must stop frowning!

or Looking Sooo professional ...