Virgin stopped transfer of points to Krisflyer [resumed]

[pauly7]

Wow this came into play as predicted by other members recently.

It’s been predicted a while ago on here, people had plenty of time to evacuate their points if they happened to read the right thread

The next prediction will be VA putting more limits on the Velocity store / shutting it completely.

 

[tomlee1986]

All of us don't want to lose our Virginity...

I like this line a lot

 

[Matt_01]

I was able to move what was left of mine and currently have a balance of 3 however I still waiting for around 53K to come back from an SQ flight that I would have sent to KF. If I cannot transfer I may look into the gift card option (if still available) I have not done this before. If they go belly up I have minimised my exposure with the exception of the 53K points that are currently out of my control.

 

[Denali]

Usually I miss the boat but thankfully listened to AFFer and got in last week. The 2 x J reward seats Im going to email SQ about this weekend for points return were sent to KF for booking so they go back to KF as well.

We do have flights booked with VA for August, havent even looked if those flights are cancelled yet let alone request cancellation/points back. I honestly hope VA will be around.

 

[hydrabyss]

It’s been predicted a while ago on here, people had plenty of time to evacuate their points if they happened to read the right thread

The next prediction will be VA putting more limits on the Velocity store / shutting it completely.

The bit you fail to mention is that only so many would be able to before they closed it.

So just like the run on toilet paper the few in the beginning get what they wanted and the rest miss out.

I just thought of the perfect analogy with the Titanic and only having so many life rafts.

But for those who do transfer and redeem on SQ and had points in the millions better to risk devaluation than total annihilation of their points.

 

[pauly7]

The bit you fail to mention is that only so many would be able to before they closed it.

So just like the run on toilet paper the few in the beginning get what they wanted and the rest miss out.

I just thought of the perfect analogy with the Titanic and only having so many life rafts.

But for those who do transfer and redeem on SQ and had points in the millions better to risk devaluation than total annihilation of their points.

Yes agreed, it’s unfortunate and that’s why AFF is such a great resource for people to be ahead of the game.

I’m sure VA saw literally the millions and millions of points racing out the door and had to plug the leak. They are splashed all over the mainstream news everyday now.

It’s also a longer term play for them, if people empty their accounts as they have been and VA survive and in time start flying again all of those people are one step closer for a possible move across to QF... (Even if they held status, a barrier has been removed).

 

[AIRwin]

also a longer term play for them, if people empty their accounts as they have been and VA survive and in time start flying again all of those people are one step closer for a possible move across to QF... (Even if they held status, a barrier has been removed).

At least it reduces the future liability?

 

[tomlee1986]

I must agree with AIRwin and Pauly7 on your points... but my gut feeling is that the leak has happened for a while and might keep going as people might decide to grab products that they might want but prefer flights or SQ points until now... I think this leak will continue unless they shut down this rewards program completely... just my 2 cents worth

 

[pauly7]

At least it reduces the future liability?

I think VA would probably prefer a liability than an expense at the moment....

It really depends on the intricacies of how they have structured the business. I personally couldn’t comment on their partner payment term arrangements.

I would however think any partner might be keeping a close eye on VA’s outstanding debts...

 

[Gold Member]

The bit you fail to mention is that only so many would be able to before they closed it.

So just like the run on toilet paper the few in the beginning get what they wanted and the rest miss out.

I just thought of the perfect analogy with the Titanic and only having so many life rafts.

Not quite sure that’s the right analogy. The Titanic lifeboat shortage was designed to ensure the well heeled and social elite were looked after and the others not. The ship was built to cater for X number of passengers, but only accommodate Y number via lifeboats in the case of an emergency.

The toilet paper analogy might be somewhere in the ballpark though depending on how you look at it.

I think the point that is being made by @pauly7 and others is that we all had the same public knowledge and insights into Virgin’s current demise. Some chose to be proactive and derisk any possible points erosion by transferring to KF or redeeming gift cards etc. Others chose to leave some points with VA in the hope/expectation that they will survive or maybe even just as a sign of support. Others that missed the boat may simply be considered naive to assume that the points transfer option would be left open forever, and then when it does close they come on here and cry fowl.

Unlike the poor folk aboard the Titanic who had no choice, we have all had a choice and the opportunity to do whatever we wanted with our VA points for the entire time leading up to last night’s ”temporary” halt. Unsurprisingly, that window of choice has now closed (as many of us expected at some point).

 

[tomlee1986]

Unlike the poor folk aboard the Titanic who had no choice, we have all had a choice and the opportunity to do whatever we wanted with our VA points for the entire time leading up to last night’s ”temporary” halt. Unsurprisingly, that window of choice has now closed (as many of us expected at some point).

I have a feeling other options such as for toasters and other products may be closing really soon.. hope I am wrong but I would not be surprised if it happened

 

[ozstamps]

"I think the point that is being made by @pauly7 and others is that we all had the same public knowledge and insights into Virgin’s current demise. Some chose to be proactive and derisk any possible points erosion by transferring to KF or redeeming gift cards etc.

Others chose to leave some points with VA in the hope/expectation that they will survive or maybe even just as a sign of support. Others that missed the boat may simply be considered naive to assume that the points transfer option would be left open forever, and then when it does close they come on here and cry foul."

Agree.

Some folks in life are always ahead of the curve, and many are not - in all walks of life. Those that act too slow for being way too cautious, then often blame and vilify the ones who did not! Human nature really.

There were many posts here 2 or 3 weeks back from savvy members, who had already sniffed the wind, and often had been burned before with airline collapses, indicating all their Virgin miles were transferred to the relative safety of SQ.

I posted this here TWO weeks back on March 17 - over 2 weeks back.

I think Virgin will not be operating come June 30 - very sadly. We transferred out well over a million Virgin miles today to SQ.

We all make our own decisions in life, and this is a very easy one for me, who lost a million or whatever Ansett miles. Gone forever. The “wisdom” of us all then on Flyertalk was Ansett failing would *never occur.* It did. And it occured VERY fast.

All award bookings I’d made with Ansett in their death throes were not honoured by Star partner carriers later. As will occur with all awards made on Virgin ticket stock I suspect. Delta or Etihad or SQ etc, do not get *paid* by Virgin, until that Award Ticket is taken AFAIK, and booking something now for Xmas on one of these is just a pipe dream I think.

These million Velocity cost me $50k to $100k of my own money, and darned if that is all going down the plughole. Yes I could have ordered 30 toasters or hair dryers from the web store I guess, instead!

I looked too at Gift Certs as per post above, and highest face I could see was $1000 David Jones at 188,000 each -.

Velocity Frequent Flyer

Earn Points with Australia's most popular Frequent Flyer program - Velocity Frequent Flyer, loyalty program of Virgin Australia, and Winner of Program of the Year, Freddie Awards 2020 - Middle East, Asia & Oceania. Join free today.

shop.velocityfrequentflyer.com

For a million points I'd get 5 or so of those. Firstly what can I get there that I want for $5000? And the way retail is now, are THEY going to be here next year either?

Getting SQ miles means it buys around 3 x Biz class trips to Europe worth $20,000 in my head. A better deal (to me) than $5000 to spend in DJ's!

We are both Virgin Plats for another year or two, and will still fly them obviously, and I really do hope they survive this horrible mess - not of their making - except the asleep at wheel inertia of the past week or two, with no REAL fare sales to shore up the bottom line.

For 10 years or so as Virgin Platinums we got our benefits, Virgin got our money, and everyone was pretty happy with the deal, and a vibrant Virgin kept Qantas a little more honest! Let’s all hope it stays that way for the sake of ALL travellers.

However if Virgin go belly up by June 30, which looks 99.9% certain to me sadly, the miles are now safe. Unlike the Ansett bust, who foundered in isolation, EVERY carrier globally right now is close to the wall, so no-one is about to pick over the carcasses anywhere – and there will be dozens by June 30.

If the world carrier fleet gets down to two, SQ will certainly be *one* of those two! Plenty of pointy end award inventory, a wonderful market leading soft and hard product, and a great Star Alliance partner route network. We are both lifetime Star Alliance Golds, so a good fit really.

 

[Tiki]

Wow, I feel like I dodged a bullet! Not that 86k was a lot but it was earmarked for 2 x RT to Fiji.
Very glad I saw the other thread and listened to the experts who predicted this.

I do hope that VA survives. We need 2 competing carriers espicially for domestic and Pacific Islands.

 

[samh004]

I do hope that VA survives. We need 2 competing carriers espicially for domestic and Pacific Islands.

No reason the second carrier couldn't be more Virgin Blue-style than Qantas-style. I rather liked Virgin Blue, and as it blossomed into a cross between LCC and full service it became an even more attractive option – there was no real need to screw that up. Alas, I'm sure there will be another carrier operating against the Qantas Group in the future, but will it be competing against Qantas or Jetstar, that's the question.

 

[Foreigner]

Maybe it is SQ telling VA they won’t accept transfer of VA points to their program.

I’m not going to lose much sleep over this, I have four (yep, 4) points in account following transfer of substantial amount to SQ last week.

My next move is going to be cancelation of Amex Velocity credit card.

 

[Denali]

Not KF related but for Velocity, Chemist Warehouse is no longer one of their store options. It was last week.

 

[p--and--t]

I view the Velocity program as akin to a bank (and not far removed from a Ponzi scheme)

While FF programs keep stating points have no $ value, they have a lot of value intrinsic value to the airline.

In normal times a steady flow of points($) in and points($) out (mainly the former) s manageable.

In times of duress where there are no points coming in, the loss of a substantial number of those points from the piggy bank converts a very much "in the future liability" to today's liability in real dollars they don't have and a reduction in value of what I view as a Ponzi scheme.

Just like a any bank, they could not withstand a "run on the bank".

 

[Ozliz]

Was never planning to transfer as not planning international travel for a while now and usually use QF for international redemptions however I’ve been looking at the gift card options and they’ve pretty much dried up. The largest redemption is now only $100 and at only one per day that’s a lot of separate redemptions for stores that may go under anyway. My points balance isn’t huge compared to many here but I’m still worried about losing it as I like to have those points for the odd weekend away to special events that I can’t really justify paying for flights to attend. That was many years worth of occasional weekends away I’ll be losing.

 

[ozstamps]

I transferred over 3 times that 200K SQ, my partner a lot too, and many others will have too, so his $A240m cash burn figures just on these transfers may not be too fanciful. And many had balances many times ours.

The writing has been on the wall for weeks now, to all with eyes.

 

[glasszon]

I transferred over 3 times that 200K SQ, my partner a lot too, and many others will have too, so his $A240m cash burn figures just on these transfers may not be too fanciful. And many had balances many times ours.

The writing has been on the wall for weeks now, to all with eyes.

Chris isn't actually wrong. Given we cannot see what's going on inside VA. You can argue they stopped the transfer as a way to stem the cash outflow, given no one knows how long this shutdown will last. This would be a perfectly sensible thing to do even for Qantas, so the fact VA stopped the transfer doesn't indicate VA is about to fail.

Edit: Having said that, I transferred my entire VA balance to SQ, as I personally don't want to take a risk that VA goes under and losing all my points. Losing VA Platinum status would be bad enough.