Volcanic Ash flight disruptions June 2011

[JetstarNews]

The various forecast models used by VAACs across the world simply do not allow for greater than a 24 hour window with any accuracy, if you have been following the forecasts you would see they change a bit even within that 24 hours.

@Markis is absolutely correct. Jetstar, part of the Qantas Group, takes daily advice from the VAAC in Darwin and NZ as well as the Bureau Meteorology on the situation. VAAC is one of the most preeminent authorities on volcanic ash in our region. You'll notice we update customers up to four times daily as things do change rapidly and there is no way to predict what will happen days in advance.

- Andrew

 

[shambles]

Qantas had advised some not to fly Air NZ due to safety concerns.

An interesting comment considering they were more than happy to use Air NZ to ferry their crews back to Aus. Not sure if any crew are actually left in NZ? Only one QF 73 on the tarmac at AKL this morning.

I got back to MEL tonight after arriving at AKL airport 4am local time (been a long day!) Details for another thread but ended up on a NZ flight AKL-BNE and the CSM was having a sideways dig at QF for taking the "saftey is #1" line whilst they were happy to put heaps of crew (in uniform) on NZ flights to get them away from very expensive hotel & penalty costs that come with being stranded way from home.

I wonder if QF are insured by a stricter policy/company and as such the commercial basis of not flying was a risk cover issue?

 

[yohy?!]

Arrived in on NZ718 without incident to AKL, a little turbulence but nothing serious - 27k cruise altitude dropping down much lower closer to NZ.

 

[k_sheep]

Man I've missed AFF over the last few days as I've been in airports and limbo!

Will write a proper trip report soon ... now to figure out how to post photos ...

 

[kalboy]

Had 2 flexi-saver tickets for a flight to Perth yesterday but the flight was cancelled, We had no option but to jump in the car and drive through the night (6 hrs) to make my appointment. noticed tonight that i have vouchers in my account which is nice BUT my tickets that i got seperately as award flights to get home are still in my booking obviously, as they are for Sunday. Looks like its gonna cost me 10,000 ponts to cancel them.
Would I have grounds to follow up on my QBE insurrance you think ?:?:

 

[markis10]

Had 2 flexi-saver tickets for a flight to Perth yesterday but the flight was cancelled, We had no option but to jump in the car and drive through the night (6 hrs) to make my appointment. noticed tonight that i have vouchers in my account which is nice BUT my tickets that i got seperately as award flights to get home are still in my booking obviously, as they are for Sunday. Looks like its gonna cost me 10,000 ponts to cancel them.
Would I have grounds to follow up on my QBE insurrance you think ?:?:

Award tickets are still covered by the waiver so there should be no cost to you.

 

[Undercover Brother]

VAAC is one of the most preeminent authorities on volcanic ash in our region.

Isn't it the only one in our region?

 

[markis10]

Isn't it the only one in our region?

No, Wellington looks after everything E of 160E and we have Tokyo to our north.

 

[hummel]

Due to be in ADL tomorrow at 1030 and back in Melbourne by 1800 on Sunday.

Hope I don't get stuck over there! :shock:

 

[Blackadder]

From the QANTAS Facebook page.

We have just received confirmation that all Australian domestic services, NZ services and Jo'burg services will operate as scheduled tomorrow (18 June). Buenos Aires operations are still under review. Hopefully we can all have a stress-free weekend!

 

[codash1099]

A message from Alan Joyce

Just received this email - NOTE: sly dig involved



Dear Codash1099

As you know, Qantas has responded to the dispersal of volcanic ash from the Mt Puyehue Cordon Caulle volcano in Chile by cancelling or rerouting a number of flights.


As a valued Frequent Flyer I want to let you know why we have made these decisions when other carriers, including Virgin and Air New Zealand, have continued to operate.

Qantas does not take the decision to cancel flights lightly. We understand that this causes significant disruptions for all our customers. We regret the inconvenience and we appreciate your patience. But safety is our first priority and we will never fly unless we are fully satisfied that it is safe to do so.

Volcanic ash cloud poses a significant threat to aircraft. It can enter an engine, turn into molten glass as a result of the high temperatures and potentially cause the engine to fail. Other risks include windscreens becoming opaque, contamination of cabin air and hydraulic systems and erosion of aircraft parts.

Our decision not to fly in the presence of volcanic ash is based on assessments by our Critical Operational Event Group, with advice from the Bureau of Meteorology and in consultation with the Volcanic Ash Advisory Centre (VAAC) in Darwin.

Unlike the meteorological authorities in Europe, Australia's VAAC does not have the ability to calculate ash density so we are unable to access definitive measurements. Our policy is not to fly into areas where the concentration of volcanic ash is unknown. Without certainty about the density of the ash, we do not consider it safe to fly.

Again, we sincerely regret the inconvenience caused by these weather conditions.

We will continue to resume services to affected ports as soon as it is operationally appropriate to do so. You can find the latest flight updates on our Flight Status page.

Our Chief Pilot Captain Peter Wilson and Head of Integrated Operations Centre Alan Milne are expert members of the Qantas Critical Operational Event Group. You can watch a video of Peter and Alan discussing the rationale behind the Qantas decision to cancel or reroute some flights on Qantas' YouTube channel.

Alan Joyce
Qantas Chief Executive Officer

 

[markis10]

I just got a personal email on the issue from Alan :

As you know, Qantas has responded to the dispersal of volcanic ash from the Mt Puyehue Cordon Caulle volcano in Chile by cancelling or rerouting a number of flights.

As a valued Frequent Flyer I want to let you know why we have made these decisions when other carriers, including Virgin and Air New Zealand, have continued to operate.

Qantas does not take the decision to cancel flights lightly. We understand that this causes significant disruptions for all our customers. We regret the inconvenience and we appreciate your patience. But safety is our first priority and we will never fly unless we are fully satisfied that it is safe to do so.

Volcanic ash cloud poses a significant threat to aircraft. It can enter an engine, turn into molten glass as a result of the high temperatures and potentially cause the engine to fail. Other risks include windscreens becoming opaque, contamination of cabin air and hydraulic systems and erosion of aircraft parts.

Our decision not to fly in the presence of volcanic ash is based on assessments by our Critical Operational Event Group, with advice from the Bureau of Meteorology and in consultation with the Volcanic Ash Advisory Centre (VAAC) in Darwin.

Unlike the meteorological authorities in Europe, Australia's VAAC does not have the ability to calculate ash density so we are unable to access definitive measurements. Our policy is not to fly into areas where the concentration of volcanic ash is unknown. Without certainty about the density of the ash, we do not consider it safe to fly.

Again, we sincerely regret the inconvenience caused by these weather conditions.

We will continue to resume services to affected ports as soon as it is operationally appropriate to do so. You can find the latest flight updates on our Flight Status page.

Our Chief Pilot Captain Peter Wilson and Head of Integrated Operations Centre Alan Milne are expert members of the Qantas Critical Operational Event Group. You can watch a video of Peter and Alan discussing the rationale behind the Qantas decision to cancel or reroute some flights on Qantas' YouTube channel.

I like how the line on ash density is not known is trotted out, its irrelevent, ICAO guidelines stipulate zero tolerance, not one based on density forecast! To quote the ICAO Volcanic Ash manual:

the exposure time of the engines to the ash and the thrust settings at the time of the encounter
both have a direct bearing on the threshold value of ash concentration that constitutes a hazard. In view of
this, the recommended procedure in the case of volcanic ash is exactly the same as with low-level wind
shear, regardless of ash concentration — AVOID AVOID AVOID.

http://www2.icao.int/en/anb/met-aim/met/iavwopsg/Documents/Manual on Volcanic Ash, Radioactive Material and Toxic Chemical Clouds - Doc 9691.pdf

That advice to the best of my knowledge has been followed by ALL airlines mentioned in the email, the difference being some were prepared to wear the fuel penalty of flying lower in controlled airspace, again to the best of my knowledge I am not aware of any jet that flew outside controlled airspace to avoid the ash cloud when it normally would not do so.

 

[ChrisCunard]

Re: A message from Alan Joyce

Safety first - I totally agree.

The video does highlight the fact that QF have been very slow in re-branding their aircraft.

No A333's, for example, are wearing the new Roo... but I digress.

 

[harvyk]

Re: A message from Alan Joyce

In some ways I feel it's fair enough...

QF has a reputation for being very safety conscious, so you can't really fault them when they cancel flights out of safety concerns... There has been many a case where a company has ignored safety concerns to end up with a disaster on their hands...

 

[harvyk]

Re: A message from Alan Joyce

The video does highlight the fact that QF have been very slow in re-branding their aircraft.

Totally OT - unlike when Australian Airlines became QF, and there was a massive change in livery, the change between the old livery and the new is a slight change to the roo's legs, and a different font done in grey rather than black...

Regardless of if it's in old or new QF livery, you know it's a QF plane...

 

[ChrisCunard]

Re: A message from Alan Joyce

Totally OT - unlike when Australian Airlines became QF, and there was a massive change in livery, the change between the old livery and the new is a slight change to the roo's legs, and a different font done in grey rather than black...

Regardless of if it's in old or new QF livery, you know it's a QF plane...

Still totally OT - and agree that you always know it's a QF plane, but the new Roo looks so much better on the A330's tail than the old one (due to it's dimensions) - just a greedy desire to see QF all re branded and looking consistent.

Also, and it's semantics, but the new roo has a different head, body, legs and tail from the old one

 

[shambles]

I am not aware of any jet that flew outside controlled airspace to avoid the ash cloud when it normally would not do so.

Hey Mark - I been out of the ATC game for too long - what's the lowest level of CTA trans Tasman? I always thought it was 250 but my westbound Air NZ flight dropped from FL260 to 240 yesterday for most the trip to avoid some fairly lumpy air. Didnt someone post earlier in this thread that Emirates ran at FL200 on Tuesday? (not sure if that was confirmed as fact or not?) I guess if you are going to be OCTA then the easiest thing to be seen in is a 380!

cheers

 

[markis10]

FL180 within radar coverage is the lowest in Class A but I dont have a chart handy.

Edit Now that I have checked the charts Class E Fl180 to around 151E, OCA is LL FL245

 

[kalboy]

Award tickets are still covered by the waiver so there should be no cost to you.

Even though the flight i have the award tickets for is still going to fly ?

My award tickets are on a different itinerary to the flexi saver tickets that were cancelled.

 

[markis10]

Even though the flight i have the award tickets for is still going to fly ?

Give the airline a call, your reason for taking the flight has changed because of the ash so I would suspect they will be happy to help!