"... we'll shortly announce a major investment to improve our Frequent Flyer program"

[drmatte]

While we're all having a grip about what is or isn't wrong with QFF program, I'd like to have a bit of a whinge about the exorbitant carrier charges.
Looking to fly LAX-LHR, happy to fly economy, but the US $200 carrier charges just make the whole thing a waste of time. Given a return ticket is less than AUD $1000, if you value a flight at 500 AUD each way... you're getting 173 AUD of saving for your 31500 qantas points. About 0.55 cents/point. That's toaster territory. And that's on AA, one of Qantas 'low' carrier charge partners.

Eliminate the US $200 carrier charge and it's more lie 1.5 cents/point which seems a reasonable price to pay for having to work within the confines of a system where availability is generally pretty good but aren't always available on dates you want/numbers you want/destinations/routing you want etc.

(Fly BA and it's worse, as charges are the same but points higher - 0.46 points!!!)

And that's the cheap way! Fly the other way and paying UK departure tax you're well into the negative value of points! 31500 points plus around $577 AUD.
Who on earth is paying this?

Ticket prices and exchange rates are obviously variable, and any program won't offer exceptional value on every possible route, but this just doesn't seem to be in the right ballpark price wise. And they want to introduce a secondary system where it costs MORE points?

 

[drron]

You just have to read the QF financial statements to realise that any changes to QFF are going to benefit QF more than it's customers.



Just look at the EBIT targets for 2024 and 2030.

 

[Gremlin]

While we're all having a grip about what is or isn't wrong with QFF program, I'd like to have a bit of a whinge about the exorbitant carrier charges.
Looking to fly LAX-LHR, happy to fly economy, but the US $200 carrier charges just make the whole thing a waste of time. Given a return ticket is less than AUD $1000, if you value a flight at 500 AUD each way... you're getting 173 AUD of saving for your 31500 qantas points. About 0.55 cents/point. That's toaster territory. And that's on AA, one of Qantas 'low' carrier charge partners.

Eliminate the US $200 carrier charge and it's more lie 1.5 cents/point which seems a reasonable price to pay for having to work within the confines of a system where availability is generally pretty good but aren't always available on dates you want/numbers you want/destinations/routing you want etc.

(Fly BA and it's worse, as charges are the same but points higher - 0.46 points!!!)

And that's the cheap way! Fly the other way and paying UK departure tax you're well into the negative value of points! 31500 points plus around $577 AUD.
Who on earth is paying this?

Ticket prices and exchange rates are obviously variable, and any program won't offer exceptional value on every possible route, but this just doesn't seem to be in the right ballpark price wise. And they want to introduce a secondary system where it costs MORE points?

I genuinely don't understand the point of this post. QF are a price taker, not a price maker here. AA and BA are fully entitled to charge whatever they please and you are fully entitled to buy or not buy from them when converted to your local currency, either AUD or QFF Points (which may or may not be a currency).

If you don't see that these redemptions are good value, here's a tip. Don't buy them! There's no point anchoring to a price (or perceived cost per point) that's simply not available on that route.

 

[drron]

I genuinely don't understand the point of this post. QF are a price taker, not a price maker here. AA and BA are fully entitled to charge whatever they please and you are fully entitled to buy or not buy from them when converted to your local currency, either AUD or QFF Points (which may or may not be a currency).

If you don't see that these redemptions are good value, here's a tip. Don't buy them! There's no point anchoring to a price (or perceived cost per point) that's simply not available on that route.

Not really. On the AA site I can get a 0ne way LAX-LHR flight on AA for 27.5K points and $US5.60 taxes. On BA it is 22.5K points but over $US 300 in charges.
So when it comes to the charges on an AA award QFF has a very lousy exchange rate. Basically charging $A35.7 for a USD.

 

[JohnK]

What worries me is Qantas raising the bar for Gold/Platinum status. This would be a huge kick in the teeth to those who are currently spending their money on DSC to attain/retain a status that is (secretly) moving further away.

Couldn't happen, could it?

What worries me is they continue to advertise SYD-MEL for 8000 points to all Woolworths shoppers but in reality the only availability will require 16000+ points.

I understand that frequent flyer programs need to make money but stop deceiving. If you promise something to be available then have it available. I think it's awful that there are no economy Classic awards from anywhere in SE Asia to anywhere in Australia on QF mainline from late December until mid May. Something seriously wrong if that is the case.

Qantas lost me a long time ago. I'm not actively chasing points. I'm going to run 800,000+ QFF points down where I see value not where Qantas wants me to use them. Amd I'm not actively chasing status and I will not make use of Lifetime Gold as Qantas airfares continue to be out of range.

I know I'm only 1 person but they've lost someone who has been loyal to Qantas for a long time.

 

[RichardMEL]

What worries me is they continue to advertise SYD-MEL for 8000 points to all Woolworths shoppers but in reality the only availability will require 16000+ points.

Like this?



First random date I picked (4 apr) flights right through the day.

I may have status and only lookong for 1 seat as example and not 3, but I'd be willing to bet you will see availability let alone others with less status.

I understand that frequent flyer programs need to make money but stop deceiving. If you promise something to be available then have it available.

yup, your example is available.

 

[Berlin]

What worries me is they continue to advertise SYD-MEL for 8000 points to all Woolworths shoppers but in reality the only availability will require 16000+ points.

THAT is your worry???

Gosh, it has been pre-Covid from memory since Woolies points have been halved from memory.

Domestic awards, especially in J, are still one of the bright spots in Qantas’ program in my opinion. No issues ever to find availability and I do SYD-MEL and SYD-BNE rather often.

 

[Berlin]

Like this?

View attachment 372531

First random date I picked (4 apr) flights right through the day.

I may have status and only lookong for 1 seat as example and not 3, but I'd be willing to bet you will see availability let alone others with less status.


yup, your example is available.

I wanted to post the same but then realised that he was probably talking about Woolies points which then is precisely half once converted into Qantas currency. So yes, 16,000 Woolies Everyday Rewards points equals 8,000 Qantas points.

But it has been this for many years now so not really a surprise and it a concern of any sorts.

 

[RichardMEL]

I wanted to post the same but then realised that he was probably talking about Woolies points which then is precisely half once converted into Qantas currency. So yes, 16,000 Woolies Everyday Rewards points equals 8,000 Qantas points.

But it has been this for many years now so not really a surprise and it a concern of any sorts.

Or has that been read incorrectly as the seat requiring 8k QFF points, not 8k Woolies points?

One is a misunderstanding, one is false (and folks like fair trading etc would be interested)

 

[RichardMEL]

I have not seen this alleged woolies claim to know. Perhaps @JohnK could post a picture or source as proof?

or did they exist in 2011?

 

[Lynda2475]

CR in Y on SYD-MEL are the most plentiful, with the exception of late bookings on a Taylor Swift or AFL grand final weekend, they are pretty much always available for 8k QFF points.

The rate at which Woolworths or Credit cards convert $1 spend to QFF points, does not alter the CR price in QFF points.

If you dont find Woolworths rewards conversion rate appealing you have the option to take $ off a shop instead, or shop at Coles and earn Velocity points and SCs.

 

[Gremlin]

Not really. On the AA site I can get a 0ne way LAX-LHR flight on AA for 27.5K points and $US5.60 taxes. On BA it is 22.5K points but over $US 300 in charges.
So when it comes to the charges on an AA award QFF has a very lousy exchange rate. Basically charging $A35.7 for a USD.

I'm still not understanding the problem. QFF are a third-party retailer here. Businesses can, and do, choose to have different pricing structures for people buying direct to those buying via third parties. Third-party retailers also can have the option to add their own margin.

Whether the price represents good value or a rubbish exchange rate is pretty much irrelevant. If there's a better price buying direct from the supplier, then that favours those that buy direct.

 

[RichardMEL]

EDR stopped offering QF (one point per dollar over $30 spend) and being rebranded to WWR goes back to October, 2015.

WWR returned to offering QFF points conversions 31 Aug 2016 that I can tell - at the current rate. Over 7 years ago.


I don't recall if same bonuses applied back then when it was EDR, but currently one could earn the 8k QF points for well under $8k of actual spend via the many bonus offers (eg 10x points on gift cards, 1k bonus points for just a shop which I literally got this week, etc)

 

[Berlin]

I have not seen this alleged woolies claim to know. Perhaps @JohnK could post a picture or source as proof?

or did they exist in 2011?

Yea, I can’t recall seeing it anywhere either. Might have advertised 8,000 Qantas points OR there’s some local Woolies shop having an old poster stuck somewhere. Not totally inconceivable but that would be a REALLY old poster. I’d wage it’s rather the former.

 

[JohnK]

I feel this is more a skew of AFF and other FF forums where premium cabin are the goal.

I have friends that legitimately don't want to fly in premium cabins. They don't have a glut of points, but a modest amount. And as they put it, "i know I can fly in comfort for a trip, but if I book economy rewards I can take 3 trips".

As I've mentioned my current QFF points balance is 800,000+ points. That can probably get myself, wife and daughter 2 returns to Thailand in business class. I think thats a waste of my hard earned points. I'd prefer 4+ return economy trips to Thailand with my points. I look for value and quantity not perceive quality.

Oh and I definitely do not value points at the ridiculous airfares Qantas charges on some routes.

 

[oz_mark]

EDR stopper offering QF (one point per dollar over $30 spend) and being rebranded to WWR goes back to October, 2015.

WWR returned to offering QFF points conversions 31 Aug 2016 that I can tell - at the current rate. Over 7 years ago.


I don't recall if same bonuses applied back then when it was EDR, but currently one could earn the 8k QF points for well under $8k of actual spend via the many bonus offers (eg 10x points on gift cards, 1k bonus points for just a shop which I literally got this week, etc)

'twas 2,000 EDR (or WWR or whatever they were at the time) Points converted to 870 Qantas Points till sometime in 2019.

 

[RichardMEL]

'twas 2,000 EDR (or WWR or whatever they were at the time) Points converted to 870 Qantas Points till sometime in 2019.

Yeah that rings a bell somewhere in my brain archive.

I had dug up a page from 2016 via google saying, I am sure, 2000 WWR gave 1000 QFF, but now you mention that, I question that.

Either way this is going back a fair amount of time which really raises a question or two about the original suggestion I guess.

Ultimately though, partner program changes aren't central to what QFF offer directly and the value proposition of that. Clearly @JohnK sees no value for his requirements and reasons - which is fine - each to their own.

 

[clifford]

As I've mentioned my current QFF points balance is 800,000+ points. That can probably get myself, wife and daughter 2 returns to Thailand in business class.

Good luck if you can find them...

 

[Fil-Ski]

Exactly. And if they can't redeem for premium cabins, they will disengage. They'll start collecting Velocity points instead or move to an airline-agnostic program (eg a bank rewards program). These are the people Qantas is trying to hold on to.

Qantas lost me a long time ago. I'm not actively chasing points. I'm going to run 800,000+ QFF points down where I see value not where Qantas wants me to use them. Amd I'm not actively chasing status and I will not make use of Lifetime Gold as Qantas airfares continue to be out of range.

I have over 3 million QFF points at the moment and I’m also running them down. It’s a mixture of domestic and some funky routing round the world tickets.

I’ve actively switched to Avios and Virgin now since you can actually get seats on flights you want on dates you need in premium cabins.

 

[MooTime]

'twas 2,000 EDR (or WWR or whatever they were at the time) Points converted to 870 Qantas Points till sometime in 2019.

Flybuys certainly was the 2000FBs to ,870 VFF. With usual promotions of 15% making it 2000 FBs to 1000VFF.

Woolies points as far as I remember was always 2:1.