What does an ASA really cost.

[medhead]

Here is an example I've just found while looking for flight to connect to the Retro Roo flight to LRE. SYD-ADL flight 31 October.

On the JQ website, Starter with plus bundle this is $144. Inclusions: SC/points, 20kg check luggage and $5 credit for BoB.
From the Qantas website it is $145 (upfront) but going to payment page the total price drops by $5. Inclusions: 20kg luggage, no BoB credit, no SC/Points.

So the 10SC/800 points are worth either -$6 (-$1 -$5 BoB voucher), -$1 or $0. Somehow the rhetoric about expensive SC sounds a bit hollow.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Here is an example I've just found while looking for flight to connect to the Retro Roo flight to LRE. SYD-ADL flight 31 October.

On the JQ website, Starter with plus bundle this is $144. Inclusions: SC/points, 20kg check luggage and $5 credit for BoB.
From the Qantas website it is $145 (upfront) but going to payment page the total price drops by $5. Inclusions: 20kg luggage, no BoB credit, no SC/Points.

So the 10SC/800 points are worth either -$6 (-$1 -$5 BoB voucher), -$1 or $0. Somehow the rhetoric about expensive SC sounds a bit hollow.

OT - I should book mine at JQ website then

 

[dfcatch]

As a reference point I used to pay for QF Long Haul J prior to discovering the mASA. Use of the mASA dropped my travel spend with QF by more than half.

Problem for me, of course, is that with the mASA gone there is no way I can get back to the budget I had prior to the mASA. (I'm spending that money in the business elsewhere.)

I can't afford QF so now know BA/MH/UL quite a bit better.

So the introduction of the mASA led to me spending less with QF and then it's withdrawal has reduced my spending with QF further.

The hidden "cost" for me is the points aspect. What was QF making out of me on the points side?

1/ You may very well also have simply switched from Revenue J to Classic Awards at some point to reduce cost (your mASAs came from the same Classic availability). You may have switched to mASAs as it gave you both SCs AND cash savings, but at some point the SC/$$$ balance would have shifted in favour of saving $$$ (as it subsequently has).

2/ You've also become more knowledgable and realized that you don't have to pay RRP for J fares to fly in reasonable comfort.

3/ You've NOT returned to paying for revenue fares. Clearly their existence was artificially keeping you "loyal" to QF. In your example - the natural evolution was for you to save money and look for better value options. The removal of "handcuffs" allowed you to do this.

4/ Prior to mASAs, I paid full QF RRP for a DONE4.

(I know - take my DYKWIA card off me).

According to the flawed logic by others in this thread - apparently with the removal of mASAs, I would have returned to paying these extortionate fares to QF.

For those with reasonable comprehension, you can probably logically deduce that the conclusion is somewhat different.

For you TonyHancock - what appears to actually have occurred is simply that you're now more aware of "value" than you were before.

mASAs didn't cost QF additional spend from you (or else you would've returned to spending more), in fact it's arguable that they kept you "in the system" longer than you would have.

The real question is - without mASAs, how long would it have taken to you to realize you were overpaying..??..??

 

[TonyHancock]

1/ You may very well also have simply switched from Revenue J to Classic Awards at some point to reduce cost (your mASAs came from the same Classic availability). You may have switched to mASAs as it gave you both SCs AND cash savings, but at some point the SC/$$$ balance would have shifted in favour of saving $$$ (as it subsequently has).

This was the beauty of mASA's, the points earn helped fund an additional flight each year to make my travel at the pointy end sustainable at the reduced cash price I was paying.

A by product was the continued status benefits that P1 offered. The one thing that I do like is some sort of certainty in my travel and that means peace of mind when things go wrong. When you are spending 500+ hours a year in the air, predominantly for business, it is important to know that if things don't go as planned you will be looked after and helped to reach your destination as quickly as possible. So I had my cake and ate it. I was, am, well looked after by QF on that score.

Maybe I would have discovered less expensive alternatives, but it was the mASA that changed my thought process and ultimately allowed me to reduce my $ spend with QF, and then indirectly, by its withdrawal, take me further away from QF.

I am very fortunate at the moment because I am able to utilise the BA Ex Europe fares for business trips so I am getting the best of both worlds again, relatively inexpensive flights and as a soon to be GGL I have some confidence in being looked after when things go wrong.........as long as I am flying BA..... and my next four Europe-Australia returns are all on BA.

......but this is all going off topic...

 

[basso]

According to the flawed logic by others in this thread - apparently with the removal of mASAs, I would have returned to paying these extortionate fares to QF. For those with reasonable comprehension, you can probably logically deduce that the conclusion is somewhat different.

I don't think I said that, but in any case what does it matter. Qantas decided it was not a product worth offering any more. People decide what they do - if they want cheap flights, the classics are still there. If they want SC, the cash fare is there. If neither suits, they go elsewhere. They certainly don't have some god given right to a product no one wants to offer,

 

[medhead]

I don't think I said that, but in any case what does it matter. Qantas decided it was not a product worth offering any more. People decide what they do - if they want cheap flights, the classics are still there. If they want SC, the cash fare is there. If neither suits, they go elsewhere. They certainly don't have some god given right to a product no one wants to offer,

Broken record time: this thread is absolutely not an argument for the return of MASA. ... let it go, Build a bridge.

My consistent underlying question is why wouldn't they push the pricing up to see how much they could get out of TonyHancock et al for what were Classic Awards on steroi_s. That is not the same as calling for a return of MASA.

 

[JohnK]

I don't think I said that, but in any case what does it matter. Qantas decided it was not a product worth offering any more. People decide what they do - if they want cheap flights, the classics are still there. If they want SC, the cash fare is there. If neither suits, they go elsewhere. They certainly don't have some god given right to a product no one wants to offer,

You can't reason with someone who believes their point of view is right and you are wrong.

Qantas didn't have to reprice anything. They chose to remove them. Funny reading the reasons of how Qantas was making a profit and has lost customers and now has higher points liability. Actually if people have moved away from Qantas they are probably not earning QFF points either. No great loss.

The game is over. Move on. I will certainly be enjoying my 4 CX business class flights next week and the hour or so in the Holiday Inn Express in Taipei.

 

[medhead]

The irony is astounding. I agree you can't reason with someone who can't accept that other people are allowed to have a view and who has to keep posting snide, off topic comments in a thread.

You can't reason with someone who believes their point of view is right and you are wrong.

Qantas didn't have to reprice anything. They chose to remove them. Funny reading the reasons of how Qantas was making a profit and has lost customers and now has higher points liability. Actually if people have moved away from Qantas they are probably not earning QFF points either. No great loss.

The game is over. Move on. I will certainly be enjoying my 4 CX business class flights next week and the hour or so in the Holiday Inn Express in Taipei.

 

[sumthinfornuthin]

The irony is astounding. I agree you can't reason with someone who can't accept that other people are allowed to have a view and who has to keep posting snide, off topic comments in a thread.

I'm also one of the people who think it is an unfortunate decision by Qantas but guess the big picture is the loss from the "astute" flyers is less than the gain from the "less astute". however in my case I now use Classics and I get them consistently. I may be dropping in Status ( who cares really) BUT I still get to use the lounges and sit in J so I am still a happy camper.
As an aside and possibly off topic but responding to the comment about IHG in Taipai have we all noticed that Qantas is offering double QFF miles for stays in IHG ???? obviously keen to vacuum points wherever they can. For mine ( and I might or might not be wrong) I leave those points with IHG for redemption there.
Good discussion, I'm sorry the JASA are gone but that's life and if the rules change then one has to learn new rules to try and still get the same result

 

[medhead]

I'm also one of the people who think it is an unfortunate decision by Qantas but guess the big picture is the loss from the "astute" flyers is less than the gain from the "less astute". however in my case I now use Classics and I get them consistently. I may be dropping in Status ( who cares really) BUT I still get to use the lounges and sit in J so I am still a happy camper.
As an aside and possibly off topic but responding to the comment about IHG in Taipai have we all noticed that Qantas is offering double QFF miles for stays in IHG ???? obviously keen to vacuum points wherever they can. For mine ( and I might or might not be wrong) I leave those points with IHG for redemption there.
Good discussion, I'm sorry the JASA are gone but that's life and if the rules change then one has to learn new rules to try and still get the same result

Indeed. I hold a hypothetical position about possibilities. Think Einsteinian thought experiment. Perhaps the emotion prevents people from understanding this is not a demand for Qantas to have made a different choice or for Qantas to change a choice they've made. I'm certainly moving on to the next thing, I'm not sitting in the corner of a dark room rocking back and forward mumbling "my precious". Although, I'm not sure others aren't doing this at the thought of MASA returning.

I have been ignoring the Qantas hotels offers, even with SWMBO telling me about them. Might have to have another look since classic awards are now on SWMBO'd preferred list. Need to up the points balance. Thanks for the tip.

 

[wandering_fred]

I'm content with QF making whatever business decisions they want. But they need to be content with my suggesting that there may be "un-intended consequences" resulting from those business decisions. And telling my friends and associates of my opinions, no matter how well I may be/may have been treated in other aspects of the QFF program.

Happily wandering (just not so much on QFi)

Fred

 

[JohnK]

I'm content with QF making whatever business decisions they want. But they need to be content with my suggesting that there may be "un-intended consequences" resulting from those business decisions. And telling my friends and associates of my opinions, no matter how well I may be/may have been treated in other aspects of the QFF program.

I don't think Qantas or anyone has hinted that removing marginal any seat awards has had negative consequences. To the contrary.

And there will always be people moving from one FF program to another as the earn/burn rate changes. Look at *Alliance with recommendations going from KrisFlyer to Asiana to Aegean and now United.

I used to credit car hire and hotels to BMI and then Virgin Atlantic and now to KrisFlyer but I am not sure that's the right decision. For flights I definitely won't be moving to Asia Miles, Aadvantage or BA as cheap fares do not credit most times. If and when Qantas makes that sort of change then time to reassess.

 

[serfty]

The ¡Game! goes on and I adjust.

For mine, I still credit flights to Qantas - current plan is generally 1200 SC's per year worth or a little more; the rest elsewhere as I find Emerald nice.

AA's crediting not that bad - basically just need to avoid E class ... easy for me as most of my domestic travel is on VA (generally cheaper) these days.

 

[dfcatch]

The ¡Game! goes on and I adjust.

For mine, I still credit flights to Qantas - current plan is generally 1200 SC's per year worth or a little more; the rest elsewhere as I find Emerald nice.

AA's crediting not that bad - basically just need to avoid E class ... easy for me as most of my domestic travel is on VA (generally cheaper) these days.

This is essentially my SOP atm/going forward.

VA has 90% of my domestic spend (not just price, but several negatives for QF, especially being based in CNS).

I 'may' keep 1200 SC per year with QF, but for the next year or two I probably won't bother TBH.....

Someone needs to invent a "Tinder for FFPs"

 

[basso]

Since when is it delusional to utilise a pricing system that a (any) company puts in place? Did anyone, and if so where, say they were spending the full quid by purchasing these tickets? They were like the ultra cheap sale tickets that get offered around. They do exist but there are only a handful of them.

I never said anyone was delusional for using them. I didn't say that, and twisting my words that way does not become you as a moderator. My argument is that people shouldn;t pretend these things were good for Qantas. Certainly were good for passengers.

Calling people names for using fares that Qantas set up is a bit extreme IMHO. The same goes for not expecting people to get upset at the removal of said fare, especially when they were told quite specifically that such fares would not be removed.

I didn;t call anyone a name, I just said their arguments were delusional if they though the these were good for Qantas.

Airline fares are a dogs breakfast at many levels and very few people understand how they and/or the yield management system works. My reading of your posts on the subject is that you probably fit into that category. There are numerous occasions within the normal structure where someone may have paid four times what the person next to them has paid. Do we need to all pay the same fare and if so how would you implement that?

No we do not all have to pay. But again, it is up to the airline to decide what to offer. If they make a decision to withdraw a fare for commerical reasons. then no amount of arguing from the passgengers that the fares were goof for Qantas actually makes them good for Qantas.

 

[juddles]

People, I tried to read this thread, as being based mainly overseas I did not get a fetish for these "MASA" flights, and so I thought this thread could be interesting. But after attempting to wade through the first few pages I gave up. This is clearly a passionate topic amongst some, but looking at it from my impartial position (having not used them), all I see here is the OP shadow boxing with himself, continually calling himself names, and then stating they are attacks, and on the other side, anyone who disagrees with the OP gets actually attacked.

There are many valid personal experiences and logical arguments in there, but they are just buried with the continual vilification and lack of respect.

Very disappointed with the thread. If I was new to AFF I would probably never bother to read another ever again.

 

[medhead]

I never said anyone was delusional for using them. I didn't say that, and twisting my words that way does not become you as a moderator. My argument is that people shouldn;t pretend these things were good for Qantas. Certainly were good for passengers. I didn;t call anyone a name, I just said their arguments were delusional if they though the these were good for Qantas. No we do not all have to pay. But again, it is up to the airline to decide what to offer. If they make a decision to withdraw a fare for commerical reasons. then no amount of arguing from the passgengers that the fares were goof for Qantas actually makes them good for Qantas.

There are two issues. This thread was supposed to be about the cost of an MASA. Real world examples of prices. You have continually posted in this thread arguing about whether MASA should be removed. Off Topic to this thread, especially when there is another current thread that is discussing that topic.

You have compounded the off-topic by claiming that the thread is predicated on a self-serving and delusional argument. Apparently on the basis of your false assumption that the thread was calling for the a return of MASA. As the person who predicated the thread, combined with the false assumption about my purpose of the thread, I view your comment as personal.

People, I tried to read this thread, as being based mainly overseas I did not get a fetish for these "MASA" flights, and so I thought this thread could be interesting. But after attempting to wade through the first few pages I gave up. This is clearly a passionate topic amongst some, but looking at it from my impartial position (having not used them), all I see here is the OP shadow boxing with himself, continually calling himself names, and then stating they are attacks, and on the other side, anyone who disagrees with the OP gets actually attacked.

There are many valid personal experiences and logical arguments in there, but they are just buried with the continual vilification and lack of respect.

Very disappointed with the thread. If I was new to AFF I would probably never bother to read another ever again.

As per above, there have been a series of off-topic posts that belong to the arguments taking place in another current thread. They have also continued the negative characterisations made about me. I posted this thread to share data, it has been disrupted by off topic posts about a discussion that I haven't even raised. So if asking people to to stop disrupting this thread with off-topic argumentative posts and negative characterisations of the OP (i.e. me) is so offensive. If I'm such a disgrace, fine.

thanks for sharing your opinion.

Of course, it is slightly possible that the reason you've found no useful information in this thread is due to the off-topic posts. :?: Perish the thought.

 

[medhead]

I've asked for the thread to be deleted. Obviously, a hypothetical discussion is not possible without being derailed. Obviously, I'm not allowed to have an opinion.

 

[TonyHancock]

I think this is an interesting thread. I have very much subscribed to the view "No other airline has the mASA so it can't be good for QF" without really thinking through the possibility that QF might actually have something that if repriced might win customers and be profitable.

Like others I have moved on and in the BA camp these days but the mASA was an interesting offering and perhaps could have been good for QF if priced differently.

 

[juddles]

I've asked for the thread to be deleted. Obviously, a hypothetical discussion is not possible without being derailed. Obviously, I'm not allowed to have an opinion.

medhead, please don't be so extreme - my comment was from the perspective of someone who has not been part of previous debates on mASA's - and clearly there is mauch angst lingering from same. But if you read it without that prior experience, it is a tad heavy.