"What makes you think YOU'RE allowed to board?" - Shocking priority boarding experience

[Rich]

Changstein

That's the one.

 

[Quickstatus]

I don't follow.

Isnt the agent using a stereotype that a certain appearance should have a certain type of name? Stererotype nonetheless. The correct analysis which you correctly pointed out is that stereotypes are not necessarily racist or biased. So it really depends on the underlying level of bias...

I think the bit that is missing in the whole interaction posted originally is respect. With a bit of interpersonal respect, stereotypes can be celebrated and not derided because it illustrates the diversity of humanity

That's the one

It is a very funny skit and does speak to the use of sterotypes in human interactions.

 

[Phoenix-1]

Isnt the agent using a stereotype that a certain appearance should have a certain type of name? Stererotype nonetheless. The correct analysis which you correctly pointed out is that stereotypes are not necessarily racist or biased. So it really depends on the underlying level of bias...

No, what I said was being aware of the existence of stereotypes is not racist. Using your belief in stereotypes to treat people differently, as the agent has done, is racist.

Frankly, actually thinking people of colour should have a certain type of name is ridiculous. I wouldn't blink twice if a met person of colour called Alex or Jamie.

 

[Quickstatus]

Using your belief in stereotypes to treat people differently, as the agent has done, is racist.

I agree. But i think we agree that using stereotypes per se is not necessarily biased or racist. As said:

So it really depends on the underlying level of bias...

Which can be zero or 100%. To be honest, I don't think anyone can be 0%. Stereotypes are by definition inherently biased to some level.

actually thinking people of colour should have a certain type of name is ridiculous

I do understand your point. However, I go back to your point that "being aware of stereotypes is not racist". My view is that it really comes down to how it is used. For example: Assuming asian people have asian names is not racist. However marking asian students down because they are asian is.

 

[Phoenix-1]

I agree. But i think we agree that using stereotypes per se is not necessarily biased or racist. As said:

Do we? I don't agree.

Assuming asian people have asian names is not racist. However marking asian students down because they are asian is.

Let's agree on this: Questioning asian students because you don't believe the name they've given you, while not doing so for other students would be racist.

edit: Assuming asian people have asian names is a form of racism.

 

[Quickstatus]

Most who have travelled to the Subcontinent would be aware that a lot of South Asians have Western sounding names. Perhaps "Christian" sounding names. I am not familiar with the reasons why. Maybe someone (paging @Ade...) can enlighten....

Chinese people sometimes use weird/Quirky? westernised first names like "Flora". My mother plays mahjong with a lady by the name "Cute"

Questioning asian students because you don't believe the name they've given you

Again, I think it depends on the context. Many asian students/nonstudents have Western first names. It is actually extremely rare for them to have completely Western full names (exceptions are people like my Vietnamese friend). In formal contexts, it is not rude to ask for/clarify the actual (legal) name. In informal contexts it could be.

 

[justinbrett]

Let's agree on this: Questioning asian students because you don't believe the name they've given you, while not doing so for other students would be racist.

What about an Asian airline questioning a Caucasian with an Asian name?

 

[Phoenix-1]

Again, I think it depends on the context. Many asian students/nonstudents have Western first names. It is actually extremely rare for them to have completely Western full names (exceptions are people like my Vietnamese friend). In formal contexts, it is not rude to ask for/clarify the actual (legal) name. In informal contexts it could be.

This is a hard disagree on my end. If you need to question people, then do it for everyone. Don't question people because you think their names don't match their race. It's racist behaviour, not to mention nonsensical.

 

[SeatBackForward]

Most who have travelled to the Subcontinent would be aware that a lot of South Asians have Western sounding names. Perhaps "Christian" sounding names. I am not familiar with the reasons why. Maybe someone (paging @Ade...) can enlighten....

They are Anglo Indians (or the equivalent in other countries). If you ever get to Goa, the former Portuguese colony Anglo names are very very common.

 

[Quickstatus]

Anglo Indians

Can you pls elaborate?.

 

[Ade]

Most who have travelled to the Subcontinent would be aware that a lot of South Asians have Western sounding names. Perhaps "Christian" sounding names. I am not familiar with the reasons why. Maybe someone (paging @Ade...) can enlighten....

When in India, it is to show their religious affiliation. So, someone who is Christian by religion will be named Peter or Kevin or Marcus or Hadrian or Ragner etc as their first name. Someone who is Hindu, will have a Hindu God's name as their first name (or a Hindu name from one of the many scriptures) etc. Same goes for all the other religions in India.

In any case, their last name would be either dad's first name or family name or sometimes the village where they are from. Although I think there are cultures where mum's first (or last) name is the last name of the child - I could be wrong on this count.

Now, some of the people that have migrated to western countries might choose an *English* first name as it is easy to pronounce. For instance, someone I know from the Punjab region goes with his first name as "Shane" as it is easier to say, rather than their *actual* ethnic first name. Some also choose to shorten their first name - for instance "Ash" or "Ade" because it is easier.

 

[drron]

Changstein?


there was a GP in Dubbo when I was seconded there by the name of Dr Death. Luckily his name did not create any preconceptions as he was very busy (or did it?)

He did pronounce his name as Deeth though. I also worked in Dubbo and met him on one occasion

 

[Quickstatus]

Deeth

Correct!.
Dubbo at the time was a secondment hospital for RPAH.
The printed name on the traditional Brass plate didn't put anyone off as far as I can see

 

[SeatBackForward]

Can you pls elaborate?.

I've seen the term used in two ways, strictly speaking the term Anglo-Indians refers to people who are descended from British Indians, either those who were born and raised in India of British parents, or of mixed parents. There's lengthy descriptions about it on Wikipedia, I dived into this when doing research into British Engineering in India, and came across the FibiWIki (Families in British Inidia)

The other less formal term is essentially for anyone who identifies themselves as Christian and has taken on Anglo names. So you wouldn't be surprised to meet Joseph Matthews from India who can't speak a word of English.

 

[drron]

Mrsdrron's maternal grandfather was born in India. Our son delights in introducing himself as part Indian.

 

[Quickstatus]

Joseph Matthews

Ok that likely explains a nurse in our hospital with the name Grace Peter. She speaks very good English. I don't know her religion as it does not matter in the context of the work environment.

 

[SeatBackForward]

Ok that likely explains a nurse in our hospital by the name Grace Peter. She speaks very good English.

My example was quite hyperbolic, but generally, Anglo Indians will have been educated in English Medium or Christian based schools, so will have been exposed to a lot more English from an early age than most other Indians would have. For you Aussie Cricket team fans, here's a good example:

Stuart Clark

Clark is the son of Anglo-Indian parents; his father Bruce Clark is from Chennai and his mother Mary (née Boosey) is from Kolar Gold Fields (K.G.F).[2]

 

[Quickstatus]

My example was quite hyperbolic

Yes I know. Was not a dig at your comment. Very interesting. I wonder if communities like that pragmatically found it easier to interact with the bureaucracy of the "British Raj" with an Anglicised name?

 

[SeatBackForward]

Yes I know. Was not a dig at your comment. Very interesting. I wonder if communities like that pragmatically found it easier to interact with the bureaucracy of the "British Raj" with an Anglicised name?

It's a complex topic, and well out-of-scope for AFF. But it waxed and waned right from the early British East India days. The issue was that Anglo Indians identified themselves as British, but the pure (for want of a better term) British identified them as Indians. They would hold more official positions in society, but this was more likely due to their ability to bridge the gap between the British and Indians both culturally and language as most Anglo Indians were native English speakers, but always to serve the interests of the British first.

 

[dajop]

And in addition to anglicised names, aren't there plenty of Goans with Portuguese surnames?