Will Qantas respond??

[Bodie]

Qantas needs to respond, but if smart will do so gradually.

initially yes open anytime access to gold/plat for lounges. They will also develop a family package

lets be honest this all about filling flights, maintaining and increasing market share and profit.

qantas knows that some will fly virgin due to the announcement today. some flyrs will fly on price, but qantas shouldn't try to bribe all these back. qantas will look at what's occurred, make some modifications to lessen the impact and then make changes. I'm waiting to see the agreement with optus and points on offer, this is where qantas can make these modificatiions to improve points earning potential with partners, to counteract the flybuys/coles/velocity pending agreement. Get in ahead of velocity in this area.

 

[medhead]

I would only contribute a minor factoid. A friend who is platinum and used to bag me as a flying nerd for being on AFF recently joined because they were annoyed with the last round of QF changes. This joining of AFF was entirely without reference to me and happen because they were so PO'd that they googled in general and found AFF. I think missionary platinums are more aware of what's happening than we suspect.

 

[anat0l]

Qantas needs to respond, but if smart will do so gradually.

initially yes open anytime access to gold/plat for lounges. They will also develop a family package

I think it's not that easy.

FFPs can't get away with just matching each other toe to toe any more. They need to develop some unique benefits of their own. Otherwise, you just look like you copied the opposition. What incentive does that really give someone to move (back) to you?

Full credit to VFF for taking such a step in that respect.

 

[nlagalle]

I think it's not that easy.

FFPs can't get away with just matching each other toe to toe any more. They need to develop some unique benefits of their own. Otherwise, you just look like you copied the opposition. What incentive does that really give someone to move (back) to you?

Full credit to VFF for taking such a step in that respect.

QF definately need to raise the bar again on the Plat benefits if they want any hope of retaining them. A lot of qwhat VA have offered is very similar to QF with some new things thrown in. The qualifying levels are much lower too. even for PG and PP.

QF should drop the PG down and the WP1 should have a lower threshold than discussed. because as it stands VA looks more attractive in that respect.

Virgin also have a much better ear to the ground than QF.. their use of social media is extremely good. This site is a classic.

But if VA make QF sit up and listen and introduce new (and recently retired) benefits, then i am all for it. Nothing like some good competition!

 

[anat0l]

Your both right.

Your right in QF should respond. but others are right in they won't.

I wouldn't even bet on those "solid accounts" anymore... VA for the last 6mths have been sniffing around large business' and Government for new travel options.

They even recently put on a team of Business Account Managers and Government Account Manager.

VA are hardcore going after QF, QF are just too blind to see it.

Here's another odd theory: QF are 'letting' VA do what they have to do.

Keeping in mind that a smaller company is usually easier to manage than a larger one (in terms of quality, logistics, etc.), QF could be taking a more passive role to "consolidate" at the expense of not making a huge market share.

QF may find a new equilibrium where the market share is no longer 90% them and 10% others. They'll still be a company that operates stably but only with 60% them and 40% others. Most people here would call that good competition.

Given the recent "New Spirit" / "Stronger Qantas" announcement, it almost seems to be going that way. QF will concede that it can't sustain its market share and focus on trying to solidify its base before going on the offensive again. A good thing for us? Of course not - we're only interested in development, not "spring cleaning the house".

Perhaps the real question we should be debating is will the new VA/VFF establish a new market equilibrium or will it kill Qantas? As long as it is the former, perhaps QF really will not care......

 

[medhead]

. The qualifying levels are much lower too. even for PG and PP.

remeber the earning levels on DJ are lower as well. e.g. ADL-SYD Y- DJ 10SC, QF 15SC.

 

[nlagalle]

remeber the earning levels on DJ are lower as well. e.g. ADL-SYD Y- DJ 10SC, QF 15SC.

I thought the SC earn was almost the same now..

 

[anat0l]

I thought the SC earn was almost the same now..

It is almost the same, though VFF measure zones in km rather than mi. There are only slight differences, and medhead's is only one peculiar exception (particularly as he has to fly said route often).

Also, VFF enforce the notion of a "journey" rather than counting sectors (at least, that is what I've heard). For example, if you fly ABX to BNE via SYD (it is all bought on one ticket), you will get VFF SCs based on the GCM of ABX to BNE, not for the two sectors which constitute the journey. This is fairly consistent with how NZ Airpoints awards status points / Airpoints Dollars, though it only applies to Virgin group operated flights (everything else is sector based).

 

[futaris]

remeber the earning levels on DJ are lower as well. e.g. ADL-SYD Y- DJ 10SC, QF 15SC.

Qantas Frequent Flyer - About the Program - Status Credits
Virgin Frequent Flyer - Status Credit earn table
I think this thread goes into more detail:

 

[futaris]

It is almost the same, though VFF measure zones in km rather than mi.

They're both in mi.

 

[Leumas]

There is only ONE thing QF needs to do, not just QFF, but throughout the entire group/organisation.

Start thinking from a customer's perspective, not your shareholders, not the board, but your customers. Customers are the ones that decide the fate of the company. Once you start thinking from your customer's perspective, the rest will follow. Any boards or CEOs that don't think as a customer will eventually drive the company to the ground.

IMHO, Qantas have lost that focus in the past few years.

 

[medhead]

It is almost the same, though VFF measure zones in km rather than mi. There are only slight differences, and medhead's is only one peculiar exception (particularly as he has to fly said route often).

You're right that it is one peculiar example and I only know about it because I fly it once in a while. But it must be this way because the shortest zone is longer on DJ. I would expect that to be the case for other routes that are in no man's land between the QF zone one and DJ zone one. Another example would be ADL-CBR zone 2 (just) with QF and obviously zone 1 on DJ.

I'll have to check the other thread to see details, as I have looked at the difference in the other zone distances.

 

[UP4014]

There is only ONE thing QF needs to do, not just QFF, but throughout the entire group/organisation.

Start thinking from a customer's perspective, not your shareholders, not the board, but your customers. Customers are the ones that decide the fate of the company. Once you start thinking from your customer's perspective, the rest will follow. Any boards or CEOs that don't think as a customer will eventually drive the company to the ground.

IMHO, Qantas have lost that focus in the past few years.

Alan Joyce seems to want to head towards the Frank Lorenzo approach to airline management, bust the unions at all costs. Wonder if Alan Joyce lets the cabin crew open his drink when flying, Frank Lorenzo wouldn't just in case.

Matt

 

[UP4014]

Oops, intended to include this.

Dictionary: Frank Lorenzo

 

[QF029]

Qantas will definitely respond. The question is how far? They would have to do a massive U turn on things like anytime access to match Velocity.

My opinion is the reason we didn't see any increase on Platiunum benefits a few months back was because they were waiting to see what Virgin came up with and are likely to announce additional offerings in the next few weeks.

 

[QFMEL]

The cabin upgrades option will appeal to the not insignificant number of WPs/Golds who usually fly in Y domestically- that's a fair chunk of corporate and govt pax. Assuming first-in, best-dressed on that front, and not the haphazard way DJ approach yield management wrt their formerly W/PE seats (pick the random pax out of a hat in some cases).

Throw in a decent carrot to compete with the HHonors/IHG Gold Elite offer and you've got some tangible benefits that people could really sink their teeth into.

Alas, I won't hold my breath.

 

[DMMatlin]

Start thinking from a customer's perspective, not your shareholders, not the board, but your customers. IMHO, Qantas have lost that focus in the past few years.

IMHO you are 100% correct.

I have interpreted the last year or so of "enhancements" to the QFF program as simply a request from QANTAS to go a try the Virgin product.

I will never be convinced that the financial gain by making these changes outweighed the enormous loss of loyalty from QFF's at Silver, Gold and Platinum levels. So ultimately I can't see how either the customer or the shareholder actually received any benefit. The Board of Directors has failed in its primary role - looking after shareholders interest.

It seems to me that during the Geoff Dixon and Alan Joyce reigns as CEO QANTAS has been in a constant battle with everyone around them. They have fought their staff, they have fought new competitors and the latest fight has been with their most lucrative and loyal customers. Well that just seems dumb to me. Fighting with every group you work with must make for a horrible working day I suspect.

Here are some simple examples of the lost marketing opps for QANTAS from this combative approach...

- TT gets grounded for what the general public see as a pilot error or a lack of pilot training... so instead of QANTAS being able to promote their great pilot training and how they value their pilots and have such an envious safety record... They have the pilot union taking out billboards on the freeway to Tullamarine questioning the training of future QANTAS Pilots

- VA launch a new FF program... So instead of QANTAS saying to its most loyal customers "Don't worry, you've been receiving these benefits for years and we want to make your life even easier with..." they have to manage communication programs on why the removal of anytime access to a lounge is a benefit or that stopping QP members clogging up the priority lanes was such a huge cost impost....

All this seems to have forgotten the most simplest of premises... Is this of value to our customers?

 

[777]

Here's a theory: For Qantas, the frequent flyer program has become first and foremost a cash cow and a money spinner. For Virgin, they are attempting to use it to generate loyalty. Discuss.

 

[notzac]

remeber the earning levels on DJ are lower as well. e.g. ADL-SYD Y- DJ 10SC, QF 15SC.

Not always. whY+ long haul on VA earns more (and is cheaper than) QF.

 

[harvyk]

Here's a theory: For Qantas, the frequent flyer program has become first and foremost a cash cow and a money spinner. For Virgin, they are attempting to use it to generate loyalty. Discuss.

What's there to discuss? I believe QFF is the most profitable part of the business and could easily be sold of as an entity in it's own right, and VA are doing all they can to gain customer loyalty from QF, they said that was the goal many years ago.

Both companies have pretty much said the exact same thing