Will Qantas respond??

[milehighclub]

You do realise that all QF crew who joined anytime in the past 4yrs are on less money than DJ crew? That's true for domestic and international FAs. QFs 13 A380s are all crewed by B scale crew. Only the 747s are crewed by A scale which are mostly being retired in the next 12 months. Even their casuals are cheaper since they get no benefits, annual leave or sick leave. QFLink crew are on about the same as newbie DJ crew. FYI, info given to me by an A scale crew member at QF. Jetstar crew are most definately on lower T&Cs than DJ too.

Not quite

Internationally, while VA has a higher base salary, QCCA enjoy better overtime and other incidentals to bring it around the same amount. For domestic operations, the salary again is higher but doesn't include a lot of extras that we get at Qantas.

Also the A380 is not all crewed by QCCA (Scale B). There are many QAL (Scale A from both international and domestic) crew members who work on the A380. The work under all QCCA conditions except pay.

 

[gumpy]

Qantas will definitely respond. The question is how far? They would have to do a massive U turn on things like anytime access to match Velocity.

My opinion is the reason we didn't see any increase on Platiunum benefits a few months back was because they were waiting to see what Virgin came up with and are likely to announce additional offerings in the next few weeks.

I agree with this =) QF couldn't possibly show all their cards before virgin's announcement.

At the same time though I don't think QF can do a U turn... they'd look a idiots... I think they'll massage a couple of sweetners in.

 

[TonyHancock]

I agree with this =) QF couldn't possibly show all their cards before virgin's announcement.

At the same time though I don't think QF can do a U turn... they'd look a idiots... I think they'll massage a couple of sweetners in.

I'm afraid the old egg on face syndrome will prevent u turns. Sad really, sometimes it is better to be honest. I liked the VA response to criticism over the status matches. They admitted then needed to attract customers. No fancy marketing bollocks.

Other than WP1, which will be out of the reach of the majority of WP's, particularly if there is a high QF metal SC requirement, I'm struggling to see where QF can go without being seen a just copying the VA offering.

I hope I am presently surprised by QF.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Here's my 10c worth: QF should respond. Up until today: I fly domestically from a regional airport long since abandoned ( effectively) by QF, I have 2 choices : JQ or DJ.
No lounge at my airport. Nominally I fly JQ as on return from SYD, MEL etc I will have lounge access no other WP benefits ( unless you count pre-selected back row beside the galley/toilet as a benefit )
DJ up until today no benefit.
Now it's a whole new game

 

[djfuzz]

I'm afraid the old egg on face syndrome will prevent u turns. Sad really, sometimes it is better to be honest. I liked the VA response to criticism over the status matches. They admitted then needed to attract customers. No fancy marketing bollocks.

And given the fact that loyal VA members might be justified in being just a little bit peeved by all this (in the short term), at least they didn't mince words and try to make it sound like they were being done a favour (though we know that in the long term, that's actually true).

Other than WP1, which will be out of the reach of the majority of WP's, particularly if there is a high QF metal SC requirement, I'm struggling to see where QF can go without being seen a just copying the VA offering.

To be honest, at least copying VA would be something - and given the net effect of where we're at with QFF now, something is definitely better than nothing.

I hope I am presently surprised by QF.

Same (you meant 'pleasantly' though, right?).

Quite frankly, it would take something out of the ordinary to stem the flow now though. Just today I've already booked a couple of VA trips for next month and plan to keep doing so for the foreseeable future. I would have struggled to make the WP requal without some status runs and another double SC promo that I'm actually included in, so the incentive to try has pretty much disappeared for now - especially since QFF has made SG so appealing (will miss FCLs of course).

 

[TonyHancock]

Same (you meant 'pleasantly' though, right?).

Yep! I'm on the Dalwhinnie tonight!!!

 

[Vinny]

My thoughts. QF dislike competition so will raise the level of benefits for FF'ers. And as history shows, they will enhance the conditions back to where they were or even lower than before and continue charging premium prices. And many people or their companies will pay it.

If we want competition and benefits for the travelling public, Virgin management has given us the opportunity and encouragement to vote with our bums in seats and give them a try. I know I am.

 

[medhead]

Not always. whY+ long haul on VA earns more (and is cheaper than) QF.

I did write DJ not VA, , but fair point.

 

[drron]

Here's my 10c worth: QF should respond. Up until today: I fly domestically from a regional airport long since abandoned ( effectively) by QF, I have 2 choices : JQ or DJ.
No lounge at my airport. Nominally I fly JQ as on return from SYD, MEL etc I will have lounge access no other WP benefits ( unless you count pre-selected back row beside the galley/toilet as a benefit )
DJ up until today no benefit.
Now it's a whole new game

I regard aisle seat back row as a truly premium selection flying JQ into MCY.Only stairs back and front so first off and dont have to pay the seat premium for up front.

 

[Katie]

I really like the VA notion of parental leave. I let my QP membership lapse while on maternity leave, and was rather horrified (but still coughed it up) to pay the joining fee again. I realise it's QP not FF membership, but same kind of principle. I hope QF considers something like this.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

QF needs to respond before the new ex-QF Plats make a booking with VA.

Once they make the first booking it's game over for QF :idea:

 

[serfty]

Here's a theory: For Qantas, the frequent flyer program has become first and foremost a cash cow and a money spinner. For Virgin, they are attempting to use it to generate loyalty. Discuss.

What's there to discuss? I believe QFF is the most profitable part of the business and could easily be sold of as an entity in it's own right, and VA are doing all they can to gain customer loyalty from QF, they said that was the goal many years ago.

Both companies have pretty much said the exact same thing

The way I perceive how Qantas want to maximise their profits from the Frequent Flyer Program, it's the Frequent Flyers who cost them the most.

The more point you have the better value can be redeemed - the less you have the harder to redeem for any real relative value. QFF would prefer to sell and otherwise gain revenue from providing FF points but in turn have as few as possible being redeemed. Undreedeem rewards is termed "breakage".

No, it's become a "Frequent Buyers Scheme" - and most members would not have the wherewithal/dedication to garner more than several thousand QFF points each year.

 

[jakeseven7]

QF needs to respond before the new ex-QF Plats make a booking with VA.

Once they make the first booking it's game over for QF :idea:

I'd respectfully disagree.

I actually think VA have made a bit of a blunder - status matching so early. I'm a REAL gold DJ (as in put in the miles) and they are still pretty much the same airline they were a few years back. Sure they have a couple of shiny new planes flying round half finished - but in terms of having critical mass of change - no where near ready.

I think QFF Plats will be a bit disappointed. The Lounges are ok - on par / just below the QP's. The planes are mostly still old. Nothing much has changed to date.

I do understand (although a bit bitter) why VA have done it earlier even though they aren't ready. CASH.

 

[connieguy]

I'd respectfully disagree.

I actually think VA have made a bit of a blunder - status matching so early. I'm a REAL gold DJ (as in put in the miles) and they are still pretty much the same airline they were a few years back. Sure they have a couple of shiny new planes flying round half finished - but in terms of having critical mass of change - no where near ready.

I think QFF Plats will be a bit disappointed. The Lounges are ok - on par / just below the QP's. The planes are mostly still old. Nothing much has changed to date.

I do understand (although a bit bitter) why VA have done it earlier even though they aren't ready. CASH.

I'm a real QF WP who did 3,200 SCs of butt in the seat miles and most of that was long haul internationals so I probably did 6 times the flying you have done to gain your VA Gold.

You seem to be trying to stop WPs doing status matches with DJ? Why do you think VA are rolling out J across their system and have build new and bigger lounges? To cater for their existing customers or to cater for their new customers?

You are right though that VA is doing this for CASH. I mean they are in business to do this and they need more customers. So shall they attract these new customers by cutting prices to encourage more low yield customers or to maintain prices, while upping the level of service they offer to their existing and new FFers?

BTW who do you think is going to pay for the new VA lounges that you are enjoying? VA's existing customers OR me and my fellow QF WPs and QF SGs that are diverting some of our spend into VA's bank account?

Bottom line is VA spent the CASH to earn our CASH spend.

 

[Noob]

I hope Qantas respond, just takes competition up another notch and means VA will up their ante again as well - it's win win for frequent flyers in Australia!

 

[gumpy]

I hope Qantas respond, just takes competition up another notch and means VA will up their ante again as well - it's win win for frequent flyers in Australia!

This is all I want from the situation... both airlines working harder for the consumer.

In saying that yesterday in the Perth QP there were far too many people... I think QF would like to have fewer people there...

 

[Moopere]

I'd respectfully disagree.

I actually think VA have made a bit of a blunder - status matching so early. I'm a REAL gold DJ (as in put in the miles) and they are still pretty much the same airline they were a few years back. Sure they have a couple of shiny new planes flying round half finished - but in terms of having critical mass of change - no where near ready.

I agree with this. They are certainly talking the talk. I got pretty excited at the FF changes when I got the notification email during the week. But this weekend I've been trying to find the change as I try and find routing to places I want to go in planes I want to travel in and be cared for by lounges along the way and realised that whilst I'm happy they are talking the talk they are not yet (quite) walking the walk. I have some faith this will change, but right now .... still too early.

 

[elbarto]

There is only ONE thing QF needs to do, not just QFF, but throughout the entire group/organisation.

Start thinking from a customer's perspective, not your shareholders, not the board, but your customers. Customers are the ones that decide the fate of the company. Once you start thinking from your customer's perspective, the rest will follow. Any boards or CEOs that don't think as a customer will eventually drive the company to the ground.

IMHO, Qantas have lost that focus in the past few years.

I've been reading a book by Howard Schultz, the CEO of Starbucks called Onward. In it I found a quote that Qantas management would do well to follow. That quote is "No business can do well for its shareholders without doing well by the people it touches."

 

[MattinCBR]

I agree with this. They are certainly talking the talk. I got pretty excited at the FF changes when I got the notification email during the week. But this weekend I've been trying to find the change as I try and find routing to places I want to go in planes I want to travel in and be cared for by lounges along the way and realised that whilst I'm happy they are talking the talk they are not yet (quite) walking the walk. I have some faith this will change, but right now .... still too early.

Agree with the sentiment. I wonder what people are genuinely excited about in the Virgin Program. Im WP with QF (about 5000 SC's a year) and yep I applied for the status match, but I don't see what the excitement is with the VA Program. Velocity Platinum seems very much a halfway house between QF Gold and Plat (and on some things I would probably say delivers lesser benefits than QF Gold - i'm thinking particularly about lounge access in many domestic ports, and pretty much all international ones), and as much as we complain about inconstancy amongst Oneworld Carriers, this is in reality a series of bilateral arrangements that don't necessarily offer any consistency between them.

I really want to love VA, I could easily shift some flying to them and achieve Plat, but yeah, I just don't quite get what people think the game changer is here. Maybe its just that i'm thinking positive thoughts about QF this week because on wednesday I am of to LHR in F on the A380 on points

Matt

 

[GCC]

Will they respond? Yes definitely & hard - if the full page Advert on page 10 of today's Sun Herald "There's a new a spirit of reward" is any indication.

QFF has been consistently hinting that the new benefit for us garden variety WP's will be connected to the upgrade process, and at the end of day there is still more QF metal going more places than VA.

Although that will be reducing - & my main worry from the recent "building a stronger Qantas" thread is the reduction of QF metal to the UK, which our family does once a year. With only QF 31 / 32 left plus the introduction of WP1, it seems to me that award upgrades to LHR will be scarce if not non existent.

The great value of QFF to me is the ability to accrue points and redeem for upgrades. That ties in with the policy / process I have at work, where Y is our travel policy but I can accrue points on both QFF and my corporate card and then redeem for upgrades. If VA / Velocity can offer good options at good redemption rates on Etihad, SQ etc then it may be tempting.