Wind Generation and the Electricity Grid

[Moody]

A very poor cut and paste job - straight to the naughty statistics chair for you. Here are the ones you accidentally omitted :-

Coal – global average 100,000 (41% global electricity)
Coal – China 170,000 (75% China’s electricity)
Coal – U.S. 10,000 (32% U.S. electricity)
Oil 36,000 (33% of energy, 8% of electricity)

So that's somewhere between 67 and 1133 times more lethal than wind power. Who would invest in such disasterous outcomes?

Fine. Apart from Tony Abbott and his Merry Morons .....

 

[drron]

Oh dear Moody I have been talking about wind vs nuclear for some time.So I posted the relevant details.But I did post the link and good that you read at least part of it.

 

[Moody]

Oh dear Moody I have been talking about wind vs nuclear for some time.So I posted the relevant details.But I did post the link and good that you read at least part of it.

Oh dear????

Let me tell you about wind vs nuclear in Australia, reluctant though you are to sip at the cup of reality.

There are no nuclear power plants in operation in Australia.
There are no nuclear power plants under construction in Australia.
There are no nuclear power plants being planned for Australia.

Conclusion - there is no such thing as wind vs nuclear in Australia .... the argument is wind vs fossil fuels, and other energy sources in Oz.

Stay on topic or start another one. And please be assured that if you want to promote nuclear energy over fossil fuels in that new thread then I'm all ears - even if your government isn't.

 

[cove]

Meanwhile we have just ordered more warehouse LED lights to cut our electricity use further. The payback is really fast.

 

[drron]

Simple Moody we need nuclear in Australia because we are always going to need fossil fuels as back up for wind and solar unless battery technology improves markedly but of course that will also increase ou CO2 emissions in their construction and transport.

 

[cove]

Drron nuclear is unlikely in Australia before 2040. It cracks a mention since John Howard but no one wants to spend that type of money in Australia.

 

[drron]

We need to think ahead.South Korean reactors have been coming down in cost.When China ramps up it's nuclear construction it is very likely its models will become cheaper.
We really do need to consider it.

 

[cove]

Australia is currently buggering up the NBN and shortly we will start trying to build a sub or two. I cannot figure why we don’t just get US nuclear powered subs and maintain them in SA.

 

[drron]

Australia is currently buggering up the NBN and shortly we will start trying to build a sub or two. I cannot figure why we don’t just get US nuclear powered subs and maintain them in SA.

And the nuclear version of the sub we are building costs half the price.
The Japanese diesel powered sub is a third the price of the French diesel version.
A just outcome would be for Pyne to lose his seat at the next election.

 

[whatmeworry]

The NSW premier when she was Treasurer sold a coal fired power plant for one million which is now worth 730 million dollars.

It might rank as the deal of the century — but an appalling result for New South Wales taxpayers.

In November 2015, the NSW Government offloaded Vales Point Power Station — an old, polluting coal-fired plant on the shores of Lake Macquarie — for $1 million.

When it was finally sold, after struggling to find a buyer, the then-NSW treasurer Gladys Berejiklian issued a media release which said the $1 million price tag was "above its retention value".

Selling Vales Point would rescue the taxpayer from "ongoing losses" and exposure "to significant liabilities, such as costs associated with decommissioning, estimated to be in the tens of millions", she claimed.

Holy coal! How a power station sold for peanuts became a $730m asset

 

[drron]

The NSW premier when she was Treasurer sold a coal fired power plant for one million which is now worth 730 million dollars.
Holy coal! How a power station sold for peanuts became a $730m asset

It is an interesting story.They sell power to businesses and have 2 gas power units as well.As they can quarantee supply there are enough businesses willing to pay a little more.
Bottom line is that if it hadn't been sold the NSW taxpayer would have been worse of as part of the sale meant the NSW Govt got the $130 million cash that was in the Vales Point bank.So in effect for NSW it was a $131 million sale.Headlines often are misleading.

They were interested in the SA coal generators.BHP wouldn't sign up.If they had the venture would have been profitable.They did have a few businesses that wanted quaranteed power but not enough for the capacity of the generators.
But if the SA govt had agreed to Alinta's offer of a $25 million payment I believe they would have quaranteed the station staying open until 2018.They also offered it to the Govt for $0.

 

[Moody]

Simple Moody we need nuclear in Australia because we are always going to need fossil fuels as back up for wind and solar unless battery technology improves markedly but of course that will also increase ou CO2 emissions in their construction and transport.

So it sounds like we are in agreement, then. Maximise renewables .... invest in energy storage solutions (battery and hydro) .... and minimise fossil fuel and possibly eliminate it by introducing nuclear.

Let's have a non-binding postal vote about it!

Actually .... let's not.

 

[cove]

A major onshore gas discovery near Dongara in WA means WA may have no issues on gas supplies for many years provided the discovery gets developed.
Other States seem to have blocked drilling which is probably pretty stupid.

 

[drron]

Yet the UAE has shown a nuclear reactor can be built on time and on budget using the South Korean model.The only problem the locals were not ready to start operations-
Exclusive: UAE delays launch of first nuclear power reactor

And it turns out this project is the cheapest generation build per MWh apart from coal.

.

Figures from the International Energy association.

 

[TheRealTMA]

So, new NZ PM says they will go 100% renewables by 2035. Such a small country compared with the vast renewable resources available in Australia. Sigh...

We could be the super power power resource of Asia... if only.

 

[drron]

So, new NZ PM says they will go 100% renewables by 2035. Such a small country compared with the vast renewable resources available in Australia. Sigh...

We could be the super power power resource of Asia... if only.

They can do that because the majority of their generation is from hydro and geothermal both classed as renewables and both virtual base load power.
In the past they have had one coal power station in case of drought.That I guess will be replaced by gas.

 

[whatmeworry]

A major onshore gas discovery near Dongara in WA means WA may have no issues on gas supplies for many years provided the discovery gets developed.
Other States seem to have blocked drilling which is probably pretty stupid.

We don't do fracking and have enough off shore gas here in Vic.

Fracking is a unique case, as it actually unites differing groups like farmers, conservationists etc. You look at the Nationals, they have been losing votes to the Farmers, Fishers and Shooters party because they have been favouring mining over farmers.

Nationals Leader Barnaby Joyce bought an interesting property he bought years ago, which I believe he sold to Santos.

Gwabegar, in north-western NSW, does not rank among Australia's premier farming districts.

The narrow splinter of grazing land running through the middle of the Pilliga scrub is referred to by some as ''mongrel country''.

Denis Todd, a farmer from nearby Baradine and a Warrumbungle Shire councillor, recalls a conversation he had with Joyce at a petrol station in about 2009.

''I asked him, 'Why did you buy that mongrel country out there? You could have bought better grazing land closer to St George [four hours away from Gwabegar by road],''' Todd says.

According to Todd, he asked Joyce if he had bought to take advantage of the coal known to run throughout the Pilliga. Todd says Joyce responded: ''The coal's too deep but there's plenty of gas there.''

Barnaby Joyce to sell property to avoid CSG 'conflict of interest'

 

[cove]

The Dongara WA gas discovery has had a free flow of 50 million cubic feet a day without fracking in a first flow test.

 

[JohnK]

The NSW premier when she was Treasurer sold a coal fired power plant for one million which is now worth 730 million dollars.

Don't blame her. All governments including federal have been doing it for years and still asking the taxpayer to fund the tax coffers.

Governments should be in the busines of running businesses for the good of the people. There's no reason why the federal government couldn't still be making money from SYD airport. Hire the people to run it not sell it off to private enterprise for a fraction of the cost.

Telstra, banks, power, transport should have been kept public. Huge mistakes.

 

[whatmeworry]

Don't blame her. All governments including federal have been doing it for years and still asking the taxpayer to fund the tax coffers.

Governments should be in the busines of running businesses for the good of the people. There's no reason why the federal government couldn't still be making money from SYD airport. Hire the people to run it not sell it off to private enterprise for a fraction of the cost.

Telstra, banks, power, transport should have been kept public. Huge mistakes.

Don't forget MEL Airport and Medibank Private.