Wind Generation and the Electricity Grid

[JohnK]

Don't forget MEL Airport and Medibank Private.

The list just goes on and on. Government could have made great use out of running those companies. The government developed these businesses and now someone else is profitting.

If government is not in the business of running a business then hire someone to do it rather than letting domeone else take the glory of the profits.

 

[RAM]

The list just goes on and on. Government could have made great use out of running those companies. The government developed these businesses and now someone else is profitting.

If government is not in the business of running a business then hire someone to do it rather than letting domeone else take the glory of the profits.

..and the only reason they do not do that is their donors would not approve. At over $25m/year in 'declared donations' to the major parties it seems a very cheap way to 'buy' a country.

Interesting study by the Greens (who don't take donations from companies BUT WILL FROM THE COMPANY OWNERS!) into the donations made over a 6 year period by all the companies involved in toll roads - investment banks, toll road operators, construction companies etc.

Just coincidentally they donated millions over the time frame of the Westconnex thought bubble....

Not a bad risk/reward ratio for donations made to business awarded - over 1,000 to one. But just coincidental of course.

 

[whatmeworry]

Last weekend in Germany, power companies paid customers to used their energy.

A stormy weekend led to free electricity in Germany as wind generation reached a record, forcing power producers to pay customers the most since Christmas 2012 to use electricity. Power prices turned negative as wind output reached 39,409 megawatts on Saturday, equivalent to the output of about 40 nuclear reactors. To keep the grid supply and demand in balance, negative prices encourage producers to either shut power stations or else pay consumers to take the extra electricity off the network.

There Was So Much Wind Power In Germany This Weekend, Consumers Got Free Energy

 

[drron]

Though for October as a whole wind supplied about 30% of generated power.In September a little less than 20%.So for October the average output from wind was one third of that one day.A reason why it is totally unsuited to baseload power.
Electricity generation in Germany | Energy Charts

And German wind generators are given a guaranteed feed in tariff until `2034.So it was the baseload stations that shut down or suffered negative prices.With increasing wind generation Germany's CO2 emissions are increasing.
German CO2 emissions up despite 'energy transition'
That is because they are closing their nuclear plants and keeping coal as backup baseload.Coal is still ~ 40% of generation.

 

[whatmeworry]

Scotland to be on target for 100% renewables by 2020.

Scotland is on target to generate all of its electricity from renewable sources by 2020, the Citizens’ Assembly has heard.

Under chair Ms Justice Mary Laffoy, the 99 assembly members, meeting in Malahide, Co Dublin are spending a second weekend debating on how the State can make Ireland a leader in tackling climate change.

Scotland has hit its 2020 emission targets five years early and has gone from delivering 10 per cent to 60 per cent of its electricity consumption from renewable sources over the past 15 years.

Scotland ‘on target’ for 100% renewable energy by 2020

Flinders Island is going Green.

In December, Hydro Tasmania will flick the switch over to its Hybrid Energy Hub, which will enable the island to be powered by 60 per cent renewable energy on average.

When conditions are right, diesel generators will be switched off and the island will run 100 per cent on renewables.

The system will use a combination of solar, wind, battery storage and enabling technologies to reduce the island's reliance on expensive shipped-in diesel and provide residents with a more reliable energy source.

Flinders Island farewells dirty diesel with renewable energy hub

 

[drron]

And Scotland has 85% of the UK's hydro power capacity.So where are the Greens going to let you build a few dams?
And have you ever been on a Bass Strait Island?Those islands are a wind tunnel.Great playing golf on King Island.Just Use a 9 iron when driving up hill.Hit it high enough and the wind takes it a great distance.Conversely hitting downhill means if you hit it in the air the ball is likely to end up behind you.

 

[Moody]

Yep - so storage is the key. Once that is effective in smoothing out the variable nature of renewable energy, the need for high-polluting baseload is minimised. How anyone can not see that as a good outcome is beyond me ....

 

[drron]

No there are clean baseload power sources.hydro and nuclear.
Storage is not yet capable of supplying enough energy when the wind don't blow and the sun don't shine.Here is pumped hydro's capacity in Scotland-

A 2011 report calculated that pumped storage hydro capacity could supply 2.8 GW of electricity for 5 hours, then drop to 1.1 GW and run out of water in 22 hours. The report concluded that even with projected new schemes at Loch Ness and Loch Sloy, pumped storage would not be able to replace wind electricity during extended windless periods.[40]

The SA Tesla battery will supply 129MWH of power ie 129MW for 1 hour.Of course fully depleting the batteries means they will degrade faster.

Then there is the fall off in wind turbines power generation with time.New a capacity factor of 30%,at 20 years that falls to 20%.So for both wind turbines and batteries there will be continuing replacement costs.
How does wind farm performance decline with age? - ScienceDirect
Add to that wind turbines cost at least as much in Maintenance over their 20 years life apart from those that destroy themselves-1 in 200 every yeatr.More deaths than nuclear power.A lot of toxic waste that unlike nuclear waste doesn't break down ever.
http://www.caithnesswindfarms.co.uk/AccidentStatistics.htm

 

[Moody]

And how many nuclear power stations are in operation in Australia? You don't seem to know so I will tell you. NONE.

How many nuclear power stations are under construction in Australia? Let me help you out again. NONE.

How many nuclear power stations are there in any serious planning stage? For the truly clueless out there ..... NONE.

I believe there are some real housing bargains to be had in Chernobyl and Fukushima - why not move to a more enlightened society that embraces nuclear energy. Or you could stick around here and defend Australia's coal interests honestly, rather than with pointless comparisons that border on trolling. Surprise me.

 

[drron]

And we were in Tokyo 3 months after Fukushima and the background level of radiation was.......Lower than Melbournes.
And the death toll from Fukushima.At least a 100 less than those who have died in wind farm accidents.In other words none.

And the fact that there has been no real discussion of nuclear power in Australia shows that we don't understand the science of nuclear energy and refuse to find out.

 

[whatmeworry]

Meanwhile the Germans are phasing out Nuclear Power Plants.

Nuclear power phase-out - Wikipedia

 

[Moody]

Repeat after me ....TO-KY-O ..... FU-KU-SHI-MA. One of these things is not like the other one .... particularly when it comes to :-

Latest Radiation Readings From Inside The Fukushima Reactor Are Unexpectedly High

Actually, now I think of it, Tokyo is acceptable. They love a vacuous argument there ... you'd fit right in.

 

[drron]

Meanwhile the Germans are phasing out Nuclear Power Plants.

Nuclear power phase-out - Wikipedia

And because they are their emissions of CO2 are now going up as I have referenced before.

 

[drron]

Repeat after me ....TO-KY-O ..... FU-KU-SHI-MA. One of these things is not like the other one .... particularly when it comes to :-

Latest Radiation Readings From Inside The Fukushima Reactor Are Unexpectedly High

Actually, now I think of it, Tokyo is acceptable. They love a vacuous argument there ... you'd fit right in.

And from your link-

There's been no official word from the Tokyo Electric Power Company (Tepco) about exactly what it is in this location that's caused this high reading. But the good news is that they say the radiation is safely contained within the reactor, so there's no risk to the greater population

.

 

[RAM]

And from your link-
.

Having followed & invested in the company since the mid 80s - putting it simply - TEPCO has a history of making 'incorrect' statements, letting their plants become dangerously deficient through not spending the required maintenance AND making HUGE donations to the LDP.

Numerous workers have been killed over the years due to this 'lack of required maintenance'.. Most scalded to death due to pipes bursting (in their nuclear power plants).

The rule of thumb for TEPCO is to back the opposite to what they say. After all, the first statement made said there was only a 'minor incident' at Fukushima, then it was fully contained - no leakage outside the plant etc etc..

 

[RAM]

Seems in the real, not theoretical world, even in the home of capitalism - new nuclear reactors built by one of the formerly top 3 Reactor builders are a losing proposition.

If there is an over $10 billion blowout in construction cost, and they decide to give up on the project - why would Australia with higher wages and a greater history of large scale cost blow-outs do any better?

Australia does have a great record in modern times for projected infrastructure projects failing due to 'optimistic projections' which in the subsequent court cases the same experts admit that theur assumptions had no basis in reality. The latest and greatest example that because a toll-way would have e-tolling that people would prefer to use it (& pay) even though the free alternative took almost the identical time to travel the same distance.

Georgia regulators begin series of hearings over Vogtle nuclear project

 

[drron]

And the South Koreans are building 4 reactors in the UAE now and they are coming in on time and on budget.Link previously given by me.
California have shut down one of their nuclear reactors after misinformation give by renewable and gas generators and the CO2 emissions are dramatically rising.Again I have already linked to this.

 

[coriander]

Then there is the fall off in wind turbines power generation with time.New a capacity factor of 30%,at 20 years that falls to 20%.So for both wind turbines and batteries there will be continuing replacement costs.

Coal-fired power stations are not immune from a fall off in output - Hazelwood at time of closure and Liddell were/are only running at ~50% original output. Ongoing repair/maintenance/replacement costs afflict every form of power generation.

 

[whatmeworry]

The average price of power was cheaper in SA then QLD, NSW and VIC recently.

Average electricity prices in South Australia fell below those in coal-rich Victoria and NSW in the first four months of the financial year, and have been the lowest of any mainland eastern state in the past two months.

South Australia's power now cheaper than coal-fired states - Ross Garnaut

Meanwhile small scale rooftop power increases in SA.

The new AEMO report highlights that 9.2 per cent of the electricity generated in the state over the last financial year came from small-scale (sub 100kW) of solar PV on the rooftops of households and businesses in the state.

South Australia’s stunning transition to consumer-powered grid

 

[drron]

Coal-fired power stations are not immune from a fall off in output - Hazelwood at time of closure and Liddell were/are only running at ~50% original output. Ongoing repair/maintenance/replacement costs afflict every form of power generation.

Of course Hazelwood was 52 years old and still capable of producing 86% of it's nameplate output at the end.That compares with wind at 70% of output at 20 years.
In the last 31 days of it's life it produced 15% more electricity than all of Australia's wind farms.
Hazelwood Power Plant Closing 31st March – Currently Delivering More Power Than Every Wind Plant In Australia (With Updates)
Now I agree that Hazelwood should have closed because it was amongst the most polluting of coal power stations but facts are still facts.