Would you complain if Qantas took your 75K points after the 18 month expiry date?

[Kangol]

For those of you sympathising with the subject, these terms are clear.

If you don't like them, or don't agree with them, then don't sign up.

9.2.2 All Qantas Points held in a Membership Account will expire at midnight Sydney, Australia time at the end of the 18th consecutive month for which the Member has not earned Qantas Points or Status Credits or redeemed Qantas Points (excluding any transfer of Qantas Points to or from an Eligible Family Member and excluding any transfer of Qantas Points from Qantas Business Rewards).

 

[drron]

Why is "data the new oil" ?

Maybe because the Iranians can hack your data and cause as much trouble as they can with Saudi oil.

 

[VPS]

A friend in the UK sent me this today (he used to live in Australia so will be coming back every so often) and asked how he could keep his points alive so he asked the right person. I think this email is pretty clear

 

[dfcatch]

Trippin is correct.

Airlines have a lot more data than you realize.

And RichardMEL - to answer your question - if you use ANY affiliated credit card for ANY travel purchase - the card company actually receives from the airline the entire travel record data... they know the airline, flight, PNR, cabin class, etc.

And the card companies absolutely have data sharing agreements with airlines.

It's not always the case that the data shared is as blatant as "dfcatch flew VA yesterday in J and paid $256 to SYD"... but it's enough data that the quoted portion can be essentially reassembled.

Do NOT underestimate what is shared.

The bigger point - is that not all airlines do a good job at working with the data that they have.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Trippin is correct.

Airlines have a lot more data than you realize.

And RichardMEL - to answer your question - if you use ANY affiliated credit card for ANY travel purchase - the card company actually receives from the airline the entire travel record data... they know the airline, flight, PNR, cabin class, etc.

And the card companies absolutely have data sharing agreements with airlines.

It's not always the case that the data shared is as blatant as "dfcatch flew VA yesterday in J and paid $256 to SYD"... but it's enough data that the quoted portion can be essentially reassembled.

Do NOT underestimate what is shared.

The bigger point - is that not all airlines do a good job at working with the data that they have.

Exactly.

Any card issuers are just one data source.....

Airline loyalty programs are basically big data intelligence machines.

They are much more sophisticated than banks.... banks... I laugh. They don't even make it on the radar of sophistication.

 

[drron]

Amex definitely has gotten a lot better with the data they get.Within minutes of using Amex in a different place I have an email suggesting where I can use it there.

 

[Vic]

So you have 500 Miles with MH, you receive and read the email about expiry, and still let them expire.

That is proof that making it super-super clear to members that miles are about to expire - is useless.

I think you're seeing a proof that doesn't exist. The email prompted me to make a decision. I could have kept them alive, I decided I was done with MH. I wasn't going to bother trying to find a cheap points plus pay business award I didn't need to use 500 miles. The email informed me of information outside my awareness, the fact I made a choice with that information doesn't make the information itself useless.

 

[RichardMEL]

Thanks VPS. That email is pretty darn clear.. and if "Mr 75K" got this kind of email well...

of course did it go into Junk? who knows. Did he read it or just see "more spam from QF and delete it unread?" well... maybe so.. but is that the fault of QF?

I know they did used to put a note in the newsletter emails rather than a dedicated email.. but if this is now the norm to send a specific email then frankly anyone who has an issue.. it's not with QF IMO.

And all the people who think oh QF need to phone or send a snail mail or something else... seriously? How much bloody hand holding to you want?

I would find that email perfectly acceptable and appropriate.

 

[RichardMEL]

OK fine if the CC "community" all share data with their various industry clients (airlines, hotels etc)... that's all well and good(for them, not really us of course).. then how come some loyalty programs are so poor with their use of the data? For example if QFF know I have flown x trips to the US on opposing carriersbut I've never gone near South Africa then why send me stuff about that rather than try and induce my next US trip to come back to QF with some sort of bonus offer, or even just "hey, flights to LA are now on special"?

Sure, every year the programs abilities to mine the data and more closely target members is getting better, but the "minority report" type universe is still a bit far off imo... because you know I'd kind of appreciate if, for example, QF did try to get that business back assuming they know I went elsewhere for my travel spend. I may not decide to use them, but it would show more useful intelligence with my data than random stuff to South Africa or something.

 

[p--and--t]

For example if QFF know I have flown x trips to the US on opposing carriers but I've never gone near South Africa then why send me stuff about that rather than try and induce my next US trip to come back to QF with some sort of bonus offer, or even just "hey, flights to LA are now on special"?

Interesting, my gut reaction would have been - he's been to the US lots, lets try and sell him a different destination.

I'm always looking for somewhere new to go to expand my tourist "footprint", but I keep getting same old same old offers from a large number of organisations to go where I've already been.

 

[Lynda2475]

QFF targeted emails are woeful for me - they always send me offers for bonus points or SCs to a location to which I already have a future international booking. Its like they are goading me to cacnel the future reward or paid booking and then to rebook at more expensive pricing. It doesn't work.

Could understand if the offers were for destinations I fly to frequently i.e. SYD-MEL but no they are always for far flung international destinations that they can see Im already going to. An offer they should see Im unlikely to be able to avail myself of.

 

[RichardMEL]

Interesting, my gut reaction would have been - he's been to the US lots, lets try and sell him a different destination.

I'm always looking for somewhere new to go to expand my tourist "footprint", but I keep getting same old same old offers from a large number of organisations to go where I've already been.

that's a fair point, but what if my US trips are business trips and nothing to do with tourism?

Sure, it could be company policy to fly with whoever, but given in my specific case I hold high QF status, they'd have to think that no.. I am chosing that other carrier for my own reasons (both price and star status in my particular case).

My point is that while I can appreciate the odd "Have you seen how awesome South Africa is?" as a tempter to go visit as one thing, if they have all this data on me and want to use that to increase their revenue stream from me, it's possibly more likely to target what they know of my purcasee decisions than what may be apirational.. specially if over the past 25 odd years of my QFF membership my patterns are reasonably consistent and I've tended to not respond to offers to go to certain places (for example, RSA). I may in the future of course, but based on the dat apoints they would have on me, at least what I have provided above, wouldn't you as a business target me more appropriately?

 

[p--and--t]

that's a fair point, but what if my US trips are business trips and nothing to do with tourism?

Sure, it could be company policy to fly with whoever, but given in my specific case I hold high QF status, they'd have to think that no.. I am chosing that other carrier for my own reasons (both price and star status in my particular case).

My point is that while I can appreciate the odd "Have you seen how awesome South Africa is?" as a tempter to go visit as one thing, if they have all this data on me and want to use that to increase their revenue stream from me, it's possibly more likely to target what they know of my purcasee decisions than what may be apirational.. specially if over the past 25 odd years of my QFF membership my patterns are reasonably consistent and I've tended to not respond to offers to go to certain places (for example, RSA). I may in the future of course, but based on the dat apoints they would have on me, at least what I have provided above, wouldn't you as a business target me more appropriately?

Maybe they are expecting/encouraging you to retire soon or at least take a break from your busy schedule and go somewhere else haha

 

[ChrisMars]

Did anyone ever try to access its own private data under the privacy act (or whatever is the official name)?
Curious to see what they store.

 

[ChrisMars]

I just occurred to me, about the 2500 points challenge to get back 75k: 2.5k is only 3% of 75k.
So what Qantas is asking is: earn again 3% of what you did in those years, and we will give you back 100%. I find the challenge easy by design.

 

[dfcatch]

Thanks VPS. That email is pretty darn clear.. and if "Mr 75K" got this kind of email well...

of course did it go into Junk? who knows. Did he read it or just see "more spam from QF and delete it unread?" well... maybe so.. but is that the fault of QF?

I know they did used to put a note in the newsletter emails rather than a dedicated email.. but if this is now the norm to send a specific email then frankly anyone who has an issue.. it's not with QF IMO.

And all the people who think oh QF need to phone or send a snail mail or something else... seriously? How much bloody hand holding to you want?

I would find that email perfectly acceptable and appropriate.

Except that we were shown 1 example of an acceptable email from QF.

I have family members who have has points expire recently and no such emails or other notifications were sent at all.. and no - not junked or spam either.

Plus - at least until now - QF has had a woeful reputation about not properly letting folks know.

Should they snail mail - I don't think so... but some programs will even go as far as having pop-ups on login or alert banners so you really have zero excuse for not knowing.

And to your question on poor use of data.... having the data, and getting the "personalised communication/offers" right are 3 different things!!

No one ever suggested that they were doing a good job with the data!

 

[serfty]

There was an email from Qantas referenced on FlyerTalk some time ago specifically regarding pending points expiry.

it was interesting to note the recipient was Europe based.

 

[Moody]

My son lost 30K points on the 1st of September. I asked him how that could happen after his trip to Spain on EK this year, but he then let me know that it was a group booking that didn't qualify for any points. I then said he should read his Qantas emails more carefully. "What emails?", he replied. I then logged on to his account and saw in his profiles that none of the communication options were checked - including the newsletter where they hide your points expiry messages.

So he received no notification of his points expiry, and Qantas are laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[Blacksheep]

Happened to another friend just this last week (not the man in question) who was also given a challenge of 2.5k points to recover the balance. They had about 80k as well.

In her case, she thought woolies auto-redeem was keeping the points alive, but it had swapped back to woolworths dollarydoos instead of QFF purchasing once a quarter.

Edit: no sob story to today tonight or elsewhere.

I'm pretty sure Woolies tell you when you've earned enough to redeem via email. Unless they've ignored it.....or it's gone to spam

 

[ajw373]

Perhaps but 18 months is even now on the low side compared with most FF schemes.

One difference though. Most other schemes the points expire in a given time regardless of how many points you earn. So almost impossible to bank great amounts of them.

At least with Qantas (and Virgin Aus) your points never expire so long as one point is earned or spent within that 18 month window. So it is possible to bank.