Does WP guest for Qantas F lounge need to be on same flight?

[hossein_au]

I actually once met a couple of friends at MEL and invited them to the F lounge; I was flying QF in F and they were flying EK in Y. I honestly thought at the time I could invite 2 guests. The lounge agent hesitated enough to indicate to me that he was not supposed to let them in, but was happy to let all 3 of us in. He did not say anything, just hesitated enough to let me know; and I was very thankful for his exercise of discretion. So I guess, like everything else, YMMV.

 

[Kangol]

I have no doubt that Qantas' probable intent is as you describe. However, I am not 'purporting' anything. I simply asked whether anybody has tried to apply the listed rules as stated. It appears the majority on here agree that 'QFF trumps OW' or 'OW only applies when travelling on other airlines'. This is stated as fact, yet nobody can provide any hard evidence for this other than to say "it just is". In fact, the "Lounge access" section of the Oneworld website (which I can't link to again) specifically says "Members of oneworld airline frequent flyer programmes with the equivalent of oneworld Emerald or Sapphire tier status can use lounges offered by oneworld airlines when departing on any flight marketed and operated by any oneworld member airline, regardless of cabin class being flown (exceptions are noted below)." There is NO mention of exceptions for accessing lounges with one's 'home program'. There is no mention of FF programs being allowed to disregard their own members' OW status. In addition, there are 4 exceptions which include the AAdvantage domestic exception that everyone keeps referring to - the AAdvantage exception is therefore PART of the listed Oneworld rules.

It appears the 'Qantas FF before OW' 'rule' is an assumption outside of the Oneworld rules that Qantas hopes will go unnoticed. I accept the majority are right in that, that's how Qantas will interpret it. I am not sure why QF FF feel the need to discriminate against their own members; Cathay and other OW members do not do this.

As I said, my friend will be there at a similar time to me. I will give it a shot and see what happens and will let you know. If it fails we will go to the coughpy AMEX lounge and be bitter.

Similarly, no one can provide any evidence saying that you can use QFF's equivalent OW status, which is recognised by the OW alliance, when accessing a QF lounge (including you).

I don't know where you got this from: "OW only applies when travelling on other airlines". This is not about travelling on other airlines.

When you are losing, don't lose the lesson. Even if you both get let in, ask to speak with the lounge manager for clarification and specifically ask if QF recognises QFF WP as a OWE (and not a WP) and report back. Also ask about the OWE "same flight" rule. That way you can start to contribute to the community.

 

[medhead]

There is NO mention of exceptions for accessing lounges with one's 'home program'. There is no mention of FF programs being allowed to disregard their own members' OW status.

There is a very good reason that these items are missing from the Oneworld website. Travel on the home program is not subject to the oneworld program rules. You are subject to the rules of your home program. As you have quoted the Qantas terms and conditions clearly state the rules that apply to qantas platinum. Oneworld exists to gain recognition when travelling on alliance partners that are not the home program. Oneworld is not about how the home program deals with their own members. As for the AA example, that clearly shows that the home program does not have to treat their members as per oneworld rules. Qantas clearly have a different set of rules for Qantas platinum.

 

[andye]

' - don't all OW airlines need to obey the same rules as part of the alliance agreement?

They don't-most obvious example is AA elites not getting US domestic lounge access

 

[maninblack]

What's interesting is that P1 and WP have the same allowance in QF lounge. You might expect some extra perk for P1 in QF's own lounges.

 

[durbrain]

Ok here's the deal.

The rules as stated on the website are all correct. The most flexible rule applies at any one time.

So a Qantas WP flying on ANY OW flight (including Qantas flights) can bring in a guest travelling on any OW airline as per the OW entitlement.
A Qantas WP flying on a non-OW codeshare (with a QF flight number) e.g. Jetstar can only bring in a guest travelling on the same flight as the Qantas FF rules applies, but the OW rules do not.

It is NOT the same as the 'AA elites not having access to domestic lounges' rule which has been brought up by others - this exclusion is explicitly mentioned on the OW website and thus is part of the OW agreement.

This was confirmed by a member of the FF team.

 

[hutch]

Ok here's the deal.

The rules as stated on the website are all correct. The most flexible rule applies at any one time.

So a Qantas WP flying on ANY OW flight (including Qantas flights) can bring in a guest travelling on any OW airline as per the OW entitlement.
A Qantas WP flying on a non-OW codeshare (with a QF flight number) e.g. Jetstar can only bring in a guest travelling on the same flight as the Qantas FF rules applies, but the OW rules do not.

It is NOT the same as the 'AA elites not having access to domestic lounges' rule which has been brought up by others - this exclusion is explicitly mentioned on the OW website and thus is part of the OW agreement.

This was confirmed by a member of the FF team.

Hmmmm.... if that is the way it's meant to be, then there's absolutely no reason for QF to specify different entry requirements like they do.

 

[opusman]

Hmmmm.... if that is the way it's meant to be, then there's absolutely no reason for QF to specify different entry requirements like they do.

It's so for AFF meetups at least they get to sell 12 $54 JQ tickets instead of only 6.

 

[mannej]

Ok here's the deal.

The rules as stated on the website are all correct. The most flexible rule applies at any one time.

That does not make sense - as the WP entitlements contradict the OWE entitlements. Explain how the Entitlements listed on Post #19 can be correct if one contradicts the other?

This was confirmed by a member of the FF team.

As others have found out here, the FF team don't always distribute the correct information, and I would suggest this is a case of incorrect information being passed on.

 

[defurax]

In any case I will let you know next week how it goes.

So was your friend allowed in the QF F lounge?

 

[hossein_au]

That does not make sense - as the WP entitlements contradict the OWE entitlements. Explain how the Entitlements listed on Post #19 can be correct if one contradicts the other?


As others have found out here, the FF team don't always distribute the correct information, and I would suggest this is a case of incorrect information being passed on.

I am not defending, but why contradictory? Post #26 refers to 2 distinct rules: 1) OW, which is applicable to OW status holders on OW tickets on OW carriers, and 2) non OW, on a QF flight number, which is applicable if one is flying QF's non-OW carriers (on Jetstar or EK metals, for example).

There was also clarification that US-based OW carriers have a special clause in OW rules, basically exempting them providing lounge access to their elite members in domestic routes in the US.

I am not saying the above is or is not correct, but I do not see any contradictory information provided.

 

[hutch]

Yes, but if we also look at access for pax on QF First V OW First there is a difference with guesting rights. QF does make different rules for its QF members/passengers as opposed to OW members.

 

[durbrain]

That does not make sense - as the WP entitlements contradict the OWE entitlements. Explain how the Entitlements listed on Post #19 can be correct if one contradicts the other?


As others have found out here, the FF team don't always distribute the correct information, and I would suggest this is a case of incorrect information being passed on.

It does make sense and there is no contradiction.

There are 4 categories of eligibility/entitlement. 1. Qantas/Emirates travel class. 2. Qantas FF status. 3. Emirates FF status. 4. OW status.

Your eligibility/entitlements can be determined by ANY of these 4 criteria. hossein_au has already explained it.
A QF WP member flying on QF metal can enter as a OWE and bring a guest travelling on another OW flight under group 4. That they can't do that under Group 2 entitlements is irrelevant.
It's the same as entering as a QF WP flying QF metal Y. You meet Group 2 criteria but not Group 1 but obviously still have eligibility!

I spoke to the FF team initially and they said they weren't sure. Two weeks later someone rang back clarifying the situation as above, so obviously they had put some thought into it.

 

[durbrain]

So was your friend allowed in the QF F lounge?

I didn't end up flying.

 

[ermen]

It does make sense and there is no contradiction.

There are 4 categories of eligibility/entitlement. 1. Qantas/Emirates travel class. 2. Qantas FF status. 3. Emirates FF status. 4. OW status.

Your eligibility/entitlements can be determined by ANY of these 4 criteria. hossein_au has already explained it.
A QF WP member flying on QF metal can enter as a OWE and bring a guest travelling on another OW flight under group 4. That they can't do that under Group 2 entitlements is irrelevant.
It's the same as entering as a QF WP flying QF metal Y. You meet Group 2 criteria but not Group 1 but obviously still have eligibility!

I spoke to the FF team initially and they said they weren't sure. Two weeks later someone rang back clarifying the situation as above, so obviously they had put some thought into it.

this is news (good) to me..... had previously lost out on some guesting rights because automatically thought #2 applied!

 

[hutch]

It does make sense and there is no contradiction.

There are 4 categories of eligibility/entitlement. 1. Qantas/Emirates travel class. 2. Qantas FF status. 3. Emirates FF status. 4. OW status.

Your eligibility/entitlements can be determined by ANY of these 4 criteria. hossein_au has already explained it.
A QF WP member flying on QF metal can enter as a OWE and bring a guest travelling on another OW flight under group 4. That they can't do that under Group 2 entitlements is irrelevant.
It's the same as entering as a QF WP flying QF metal Y. You meet Group 2 criteria but not Group 1 but obviously still have eligibility!

I spoke to the FF team initially and they said they weren't sure. Two weeks later someone rang back clarifying the situation as above, so obviously they had put some thought into it.

Which is all very well and good, but if the FF team need two weeks to clarify things, then there is a major issue with the way the rules are written! If QF want to apply the rules as per the above (which I think they should for consistency with OW), then they should amend their rules on their website to make it clear.

Until QF puts the changes in writing (ie fix up their website), or you get something from them in writing, it's still going to be up to the interpretation of the lounge agent... and I still think that the lounge agent will interpret the rules differently for QF WP and OWE.

If QF wanted to provide access as per OWE rules (and again I think they should), then the rules just need to be something like:

QF WP = Provides same lounge access as per OWE. Except when travelling on a EK operated flight, a JQ operated flight or a QF marketed flight operated by a non-OW carrier, where only one guest is allowed and they must be travelling with the member on the same flight.

As mentioned, the QF access rules provide different guest privileges for QF First and OW First, despite QF obviously being a OW carrier.

 

[hossein_au]

Which is all very well and good, but if the FF team need two weeks to clarify things, then there is a major issue with the way the rules are written! If QF want to apply the rules as per the above (which I think they should for consistency with OW), then they should amend their rules on their website to make it clear.

Until QF puts the changes in writing (ie fix up their website), or you get something from them in writing, it's still going to be up to the interpretation of the lounge agent... and I still think that the lounge agent will interpret the rules differently for QF WP and OWE.

If QF wanted to provide access as per OWE rules (and again I think they should), then the rules just need to be something like:

QF WP = Provides same lounge access as per OWE. Except when travelling on a EK operated flight, a JQ operated flight or a QF marketed flight operated by a non-OW carrier, where only one guest is allowed and they must be travelling with the member on the same flight.

As mentioned, the QF access rules provide different guest privileges for QF First and OW First, despite QF obviously being a OW carrier.

There is no arguing QF website needs to be 'simpler' (I mean it in the correct spirit of the word, and not QF's interpretation).

On side note I somehow don't think they spent the entire two weeks in clarifying things; I reckon it went more like this: the question was passed around multiple times, sitting in people's inbox for a few days on each occasion, and someday someone thought we better reply to this and they took all of 2 minutes to write the reply.

 

[hutch]

On side note I somehow don't think they spent the entire two weeks in clarifying things; I reckon it went more like this: the question was passed around multiple times, sitting in people's inbox for a few days on each occasion, and someday someone thought we better reply to this and they took all of 2 minutes to write the reply.

100%. But if the rules were straightforward, they'd be able to refer to them on the spot!

 

[durbrain]

Until QF puts the changes in writing (ie fix up their website), or you get something from them in writing, it's still going to be up to the interpretation of the lounge agent... and I still think that the lounge agent will interpret the rules differently for QF WP and OWE.

There have not been any 'changes'. It's just that members have misinterpreted the rules as 'QF status' trumps 'OW status' which is not true. A QF WP is both WP and OWE. If you wish to bring in a guest flying on an alternative OW carrier when you are flying QF then you are doing that under the OW entitlement, not the QF entitlement. If you are flying a QF non-OW codeshare (e.g. Air China) then you can only bring in a guest on that flight as you only have QF (as a WP) but not OW entitlements. Agree, however, that the rules could be stated in a simpler manner.

As mentioned, the QF access rules provide different guest privileges for QF First and OW First, despite QF obviously being a OW carrier.

This is because there are situations where you can be QF but not OW as outlined above.

 

[hossein_au]

100%. But if the rules were straightforward, they'd be able to refer to them on the spot!

Absolutely! Not just their lounge access rules, the entire rule book governing their frequent flyer program is dog's breakfast...