100,000 points taken in 11 weeks QFF

[Mwenenzi]

..Has the expiry date of 31/12/13 been generated to allow the minimum notice period for expiry of 60 days?

Quite possibly, but only QF know for sure. End of October plus 60 days ~= end of December
Points expire in non active accounts: that is clear.
Points transfer is not an elgible activity:- that is clear

In another post I thought you had stated you had received Qantas FFP emails
Form post 1 why the comment about a new card? Did you ask QF for a new freq flyer card?

Its only Red Roo and QF who can give back the points to your mother

 

[opusman]

I am saying that this scenario is not covered by the terms and conditions.

It is covered by the terms and conditions. There has been no activity on the account for 18 months or more - therefore, all points expire.

The fact that you are choosing to find ambiguity where there is none is your choice

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Points expire in non active accounts: that is clear.
Points transfer is not an elgible activity:- that is clear

points expire in non-active accounts at the end of the 18th consecutive month.

if that has been and gone, there is nothing for the points expiry to attach to. A further 18 months might be 'reasonable'.

however - QF could simply block transfers to non-active accounts post 18 months.

the bottom line is you can't really allow a transfer which, by your own terms and conditions, could expire immediately on transfer.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

It is covered by the terms and conditions. There has been no activity on the account for 18 months or more - therefore, all points expire.

The fact that you are choosing to find ambiguity where there is none is your choice

is that a qualified legal opinion? generally speaking, courts will interpret against the party who has drawn up the contract.

 

[hcsneb111]

Yes emails received but not read until a few days ago when i noticed an email with point balance of 0

When i called up and spoke to QFF rep originally before transfer was done i advised the rep that i needed my account number for my mum to transfer some points to me. All personal details were updated obviously as account had not activity for so long. I didn't ask for a card but one was sent. The rep never advised over the phone that the account was inactive and points would expire in 11 weeks from transfer date

 

[Mwenenzi]

points expire in non-active accounts at the end of the 18th consecutive month.
If that has been and gone, there is nothing for the points expiry to attach to. A further 18 months might be 'reasonable'.

If this was the case people could transfer from non active account to non active account and the points would never expire: that is not the intent

However - QF could simply block transfers to non-active accounts post 18 months.
The bottom line is you can't really allow a transfer which, by your own terms and conditions, could expire immediately on transfer

And for an 17 month non active account?

Points expiry after 18 months non activity is a basic rule with QFF understood by most of us here on AFF
Many other FFP's do not allow points transfer. Some have family accounts

 

[Mwenenzi]

Yes emails received but not read until a few days ago when i noticed an email with point balance of 0

When i called up and spoke to QFF rep originally before transfer was done i advised the rep that i needed my account number for my mum to transfer some points to me. All personal details were updated obviously as account had not activity for so long. I didn't ask for a card but one was sent. The rep never advised over the phone that the account was inactive and points would expire in 11 weeks from transfer date

Did you recive an email at the end of Oct and/or November? Is it the December email that has points balance of 0?

That new card may be a savour if they deduct 1000 points to issue. That is activity that others have used before to keep accounts alive. You said no $$ was charged. Ask Red Roo about this new card

 

[hcsneb111]

Think of another scenario - imagine the OP already had points in their account, and last activity was 17.5 months ago. Family transfer comes in, but this doesn't count as activity. 2 weeks later, all the points are expired. Are you saying the family transfer points should be exempt in that case?

That's really no different then what happened here except that the OP's point balance was zero rather than positive. Either way, family transfer points don't count as activity.

)

If this was the case i think it would still be unfair to take the points that were transferred from family. Fair to take the pre transfer balance

 

[basso]

I am guessing that December was the expiry of the points in the original account, which carrys through to the new account until real activity occurs.

As I had posted earlier I thought it would be reasonable to assume that the original validity would stick in this scenario, however it looks like its a case of transfer and start a 60 day countdown so the warnings can be given rather than instant loss. It will be interesting to hear an official version of the policy, I am not sure its that rare a scenario.

There is certainly nothing in the T&Cs that would suggest that they have their original validity....What if mum and dad both transferred - which validity date would you pick? What is the basis of you not being sure it is a rare scenario? Can you point to a single instance of it being discussed before? Can you point to a single case where someone had even thought of the possibility?

 

[basso]

is that a qualified legal opinion? generally speaking, courts will interpret against the party who has drawn up the contract.

if the terms are ambiguous! Your arguments really sound like you have a desired outcome and are trying to twist the wording into ambiguity. i.e. you must be a lawyer!

 

[hcsneb111]

Did you recive an email at the end of Oct and/or November? Is it the December email that has points balance of 0?

That new card may be a savour if they deduct 1000 points to issue. That is activity that others have used before to keep accounts alive. You said no $$ was charged. Ask Red Roo about this new card

That is why i mentioned it earlier, point balance was 0 at this time though so i assume they waived the fee. Maybe they sent a free card cause i was inactive for so long and they didn't even know where i lived. I must have had 20 different addresses since 1998

Can the points received be used to pay for my card? 99,000 point question

 

[markis10]

There is certainly nothing in the T&Cs that would suggest that they have their original validity....What if mum and dad both transferred - which validity date would you pick? What is the basis of you not being sure it is a rare scenario? Can you point to a single instance of it being discussed before? Can you point to a single case where someone had even thought of the possibility?

As I said "I am guessing" in that respect, as clearly the terms and conditions are not clear, hence the discussion.

Can you point to a single case where someone had even thought of the possibility?

Quite easily found:

http://www.australianfrequentflyer....expiry-couple-anomalies-45118.html#post715376

http://www.australianfrequentflyer....ram/points-expiry-after-a-transfer-28982.html

http://www.australianfrequentflyer....ram/expiring-qff-points-38742.html#post597011

 

[Mwenenzi]

. I must have had 20 different addresses since 1998

Yet people with 20 different street addresses & 20 different email addresses over decades still blame the airlines for not advising them of updates. All airlines including QF and VA must 1000's of emails bouncing back undelivered every month

 

[hcsneb111]

There is certainly nothing in the T&Cs that would suggest that they have their original validity....What if mum and dad both transferred - which validity date would you pick? What is the basis of you not being sure it is a rare scenario? Can you point to a single instance of it being discussed before? Can you point to a single case where someone had even thought of the possibility?

Original validity has nothing to do it. Although in my case would have saved the points.

 

[hcsneb111]

Yet people with 20 different street addresses & 20 different email addresses over decades still blame the airlines for not advising them of updates. All airlines including QF and VA must 1000's of emails bouncing back undelivered every month

I'm not sure how you would update a membership that you weren't aware you had. This was opened by my mother when i was a kid remember.

I was only made aware i had QFF membership when my mum asked me for my membership number to transfer the points

 

[Mwenenzi]

Can you point to a single instance of it being discussed before? Can you point to a single case where someone had even thought of the possibility?

Was also asked here, but no replies http://www.australianfrequentflyer....tas-points-expiry-couple-anomalies-45118.html

Edit: mark revised his post as I was searching

 

[hcsneb111]

As I said "I am guessing" in that respect, as clearly the terms and conditions are not clear, hence the discussion.
Quite easily found:
http://www.australianfrequentflyer....expiry-couple-anomalies-45118.html#post715376
http://www.australianfrequentflyer....ram/points-expiry-after-a-transfer-28982.html
http://www.australianfrequentflyer....ram/expiring-qff-points-38742.html#post597011

They have asked the question prior to points expiring. I agree they have thought of the possibility. Are there any cases out there where they have actually taken the points soon after transfer

 

[Hvr]

Yes emails received but not read until a few days ago when i noticed an email with point balance of 0

<snip>

So what was the title in the email header?

 

[ermen]

Sounds like a scenario that has fallen between the cracks.
Imagine this:

1/ I have an inactive account. Mum transfers points to me. I receive an email saying points going to expire within 60 days. I redeem an award (a MASA for best value) or something to keep account active. At the end of 60 days, QF cancels my award and confiscates my points. Nothing within the T&C that prevents them from doing so!

In any case, I feel OP will get their points back. Any reasonable person will conclude that this was not the intended outcome. Worse come to worse, OP's mum can always pursue a claim through the small claims tribunal along the lines of unconscionable conduct?

 

[Pushka]

Mothers points were valid points. Activity in the account. Now they've gone. Surely her points should be reinstated to her account if the one she transferred them to was effectively cancelled. Seems like a no brainer to me. Otherwise Qantas have had two bites at the cherry.