100,000 points taken in 11 weeks QFF

[serfty]

And why would you be disclosing this in a public forum?

Already revealed and discussed - see posts 30 through 39.

What did these warning emails look like? Can the op post a screen print.

 

[hcsneb111]

Already revealed and discussed - see posts 30 through 39.

What did these warning emails look like? Can the op post a screen print.

I may have deleted them but should be able to recover them and post a screen shot

 

[Mwenenzi]

From above

..< snip > .For the sake of context, our records show that a family member transferred 100,000 points to your account on the 15th of October 2013. This transaction was done online where our members are alerted that family transfers do not count as activity to prevent points from expiring. These points were set to expire on the 31st of December 2013, giving you six weeks to use them..

All your contact details had been updated or confirmed when you called us on the 13th of October 2013. As a result, we were confident that the letter and email we sent you to alert you that your points would expire on the 31st of December 2013 were going to the right places: (Address) and (email address) respectively. ...
< snip >
The Qantas Club and Frequent Flyer Service Centre

My bolding. hcsneb111 has admitted receiving emails but not reading them. In a post hcsneb111 states the family use a everydayrewards card, so they do know how to about this way to keep an account active. We have asked hcsneb111 if any QF partner was used, so that a retro claim could be made to active the account pre October Frequent Flyer - Earning Points - More

Frequent Flyer - Using Points - Family Transfers

It's ideal for the times when you have enough points between you, but not enough individually, for an Award flight. Family transfers don't count as activity on your account, or the account you transfer points to, for the purpose of preventing your points from expiring.

Unsure if that exact wording was there before. Do have pdf's of the QF ff web site on my other computer

QF giving 6 weeks to use/activate the account seems more than required by the t&c's.

But the really sad is that if hcsneb111 had opend a new account instead of re-activating a dormant account he would still have his Mum's 100,000 points

 

[ellen10]

I'm sorry to hear of your points loss.
It is such a small amount of points in Qantas view (I'm sure they gather many more points in a sweep of unused accounts in any day).
But I understand to you (or me) it would mean a big loss. So we would think, just in a good will action just reinstate them.
But I can see in Qantas point of view they do not want to set a precedent.

Good on you for pursuing the matter. Many would have given up. I wish you well.

 

[Hvr]

From above

My bolding. hcsneb111 has admitted receiving emails but not reading them. <snip>
QF giving 6 weeks to use/activate the account seems more than required by the t&c's.

My bolding and underlining.

As I've posted earlier Qantas have gone out of their way to warn the OP of the potential expiration of the points from the initial request to transfer to sending emails and giving extra time. It has now been admitted that three was even a warning during the transfer process.

All the OP had to do was read the emails. The OP hasn't shown us the titles of the emails so we can't determine if they could've been mistaken for having other content.

Sometimes Qantas is right, this is one of those cases.

 

[medhead]

My bolding and underlining.

As I've posted earlier Qantas have gone out of their way to warn the OP of the potential expiration of the points from the initial request to transfer to sending emails and giving extra time. It has now been admitted that three was even a warning during the transfer process.

All the OP had to do was read the emails. The OP hasn't shown us the titles of the emails so we can't determine if they could've been mistaken for having other content.

Sometimes Qantas is right, this is one of those cases.

No, they are not right. It is a shame that you completely ignore the terms and conditions before expressing your opinion.

9.2.2 All points held in a non-active account "will expire at midnight" Sydney time at the end of the 18th consecutive month etc

They have expired these pouts contrary to the terms and conditions. The points were not held in the account at that time. Presumably they expired points that were held in the account. Once that specific time has passed there is no allowance to expire the points. There is one fixed time when points expire. There is no mention of expiring them after that time. Regardless of warnings the pouts should not be expired in the first place.

There is a massive hole in the terms and conditions. That you seem to have ignored.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

No, they are not right. It is a shame that you completely ignore the terms and conditions before expressing your opinion.

9.2.2 All points held in a non-active account "will expire at midnight" Sydney time at the end of the 18th consecutive month etc

They have expired these pouts contrary to the terms and conditions. The points were not held in the account at that time. Presumably they expired points that were held in the account. Once that specific time has passed there is no allowance to expire the points. There is one fixed time when points expire. There is no mention of expiring them after that time. Regardless of warnings the pouts should not be expired in the first place.

There is a massive hole in the terms and conditions. There you seem to have ignored.

and... any warning message about a transfer to a non-active account could easily be added to the terms and conditions. but QF has declined to do so.

 

[JessicaTam]

There seems to be a lot of pouting going on.

 

[hcsneb111]

Already revealed and discussed - see posts 30 through 39.

What did these warning emails look like? Can the op post a screen print.

[TABLE="width: 434"]
[TR]
[TD]I have reviewed all my emails from Qantas Frequent Flyer since i called up to get my account number and update my personal details so that my mum could do the transfer.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14 EMAILS RECEIVED FROM 14/10/13 - 26/12/13 (ALL MARKETING EMAILS). ONLY 2 OUT OF 14 ADVISED ME THAT MY POINTS WERE GOING TO EXPIRE 31/12/13
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]SUBJECT LINE OF THE 2 EMAILS THAT TOLD ME MY POINTS WERE GOING TO EXPIRE ARE;
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]15/11/13 November Qantas Points balance and latest news
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]16/12/13 December Qantas Points balance and latest news
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]I assume this is the same email every QFF member receives every month along with several other marketing emails
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[h=2][/h]

 

[amaroo]

I might call CA or TT. Qantas is big news at the moment

FWIW I wasn't insinuating old school medium......more along the lines of twitter/FB. If you're lucky - you can whip up a frenzy of sympathy that is very public!

 

[hcsneb111]

FWIW I was insinuating old school medium......more along the lines of twitter/FB. If you're lucky - you can whip up a frenzy of sympathy that is very public!

Qantas obviously doesn't care for sympathy.

 

[deejo77]

Qantas obviously doesn't care for sympathy.

They are a business trying to stay afloat and using THEIR program to minimse cost..........unfortunately QFF giving multiple warnings which were not read correctly makes sympathy from this side very hard.

I do however feel sorry for you and your mum

 

[amaroo]

Qantas obviously doesn't care for sympathy.

Oops - that should have been wasn't not was Now corrected.

As a QFF I'm disappointed they haven't seen fit to see beyond the T&C or as medhead has pointed out - realised their T&C are inadequate. There are a few examples here on AFF where points have been reinstated (not for expiry) or rules have been bent for members......might be a case of your post number being low and you don't have a profile where they see rejecting you as damaging.

Best of Luck!

 

[footy99]

I think 2 issues arise from this:

1. The general "November Qantas Points balance and latest news" email is insufficient to act as a warning of points expiry. That needs to either be a separate email or at the very least be in the subject line of the generic email. Otherwise, those warnings cannot be considered to have been issued.

2. The warning provided on the family transfers page needs to be replicated somewhere in the T&Cs for reference. Without it, the only time of potential points expiry comes 18 months after last activity, as Medhead noted. The T&Cs currently make no provision for expiry of points from family transfers after that time.

These errors are made by Qantas and contribute significantly to the end result for the OP and others in similar circumstances. I'd suggest there is a case to take this further if Qantas continues to refuse to cooperate.

 

[JessicaTam]

[TABLE="width: 434"]
[TR]
[TD]I have reviewed all my emails from Qantas Frequent Flyer since i called up to get my account number and update my personal details so that my mum could do the transfer.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14 EMAILS RECEIVED FROM 14/10/13 - 26/12/13 (ALL MARKETING EMAILS). ONLY 2 OUT OF 14 ADVISED ME THAT MY POINTS WERE GOING TO EXPIRE 31/12/13[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]SUBJECT LINE OF THE 2 EMAILS THAT TOLD ME MY POINTS WERE GOING TO EXPIRE ARE;[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]15/11/13 November Qantas Points balance and latest news[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]16/12/13 December Qantas Points balance and latest news[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]I assume this is the same email every QFF member receives every month along with several other marketing emails[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Yep, the same email I read each month when it turns up.

 

[ermen]

Bring this to the small claims tribunal?

 

[JohnPhelan]

What's the current situation legally re "the postal rule" and emails? Is it the same (legally) as for snail mail - that it is deemed to have been received if there is proof of posting? In any case, the OP openly admits the emails were received.

Many of us decry "the nanny state". I don't need Qantas to be my nanny! It's my responsibility to keep track of my points.

 

[medhead]

Yep, the same email I read each month when it turns up.

I don't read them. But then I log in to my account at least 4 times a week.

 

[medhead]

What's the current situation legally re "the postal rule" and emails? Is it the same (legally) as for snail mail - that it is deemed to have been received if there is proof of posting? In any case, the OP openly admits the emails were received.

Many of us decry "the nanny state". I don't need Qantas to be my nanny! It's my responsibility to keep track of my points.

Seriously I don't think we've even got to the stage of the nanny state being involved. The terms and conditions fail to cover the situation. I seriously doubt they even considered this situation. Until that is resolved the question of warnings isn't really a concern.

Now if the points were transferred 1 day before the 18 month limit I'd agree completely.

 

[Moody]

It is the intention of QFF to expire all of a member's points after 18 months of inactivity. Leaving aside whether this is a reasonable approach, they execute it in a clumsy way due to the dichotomy of "Last Activity" date and the date of last earning activity. For example travelling on an Award ticket paid for by a family member's points will be noted as "Last Activity" but does not reset the 18 month timer. Stupid and misleading, but let's move on.

It is the intention of QFF to negate family transfers as a way of getting around the 18 month inactivity clause. This is consistent with the above approach to Award tickets, so no real complaints there.

What is not the intention of QFF (unless they really are run by corporate lawyers) is to create a points black hole in inactive members' accounts. Unfortunately this is exactly what they have done. So the account is deemed active enough to receive points but not active enough to retain them.


What SHOULD happen is that either the receiving member's account is resurrected and has their date of last activity aligned with the donor, OR the points transfer should simply be disallowed.