100,000 points taken in 11 weeks QFF

[hcsneb111]

Terrible.

I think the points were expired contrary to the terms and conditions. If you have already perhaps try that tack. Can the fair trading department in your state help?

I will contact them tomorrow and also get legal advice about the terms and conditions.

 

[Timtammi]

Sorry to hear that. Dont take no for an answer, with some persistence i think common sense will prevail.

 

[hcsneb111]

Hi ****

Thanks for your patience while I investigated this matter.

Our Frequent Flyer team did get back to me late last night. While the news is not good regarding your expired points, I’m glad we have a definitive answer for you.

I can confirm that the 100,000 Qantas Points were correctly deleted from your account on 31 December 2013.

As you know, points expire after 18 months if the account is inactive. Family Transfers do not count as activity for the member sending or receiving them, and in fact is the only transaction type that doesn’t count towards activity (in answer to your question regarding ordering a new card).

For your reference, your mother would have received an alert stating the conditions of the transfer at Step 1 of the Family Transfer process. Most importantly and specific to your case:

“If the family member receiving the points has been inactive for an extended period, it is possible for the transferred points to expire at the end of the calendar month in which the transfer is made.”

Our records indicate that your account had a zero balance when 100,000 points were deposited on 15 October 2013. A letter warning of their expiry was posted to ************in November, followed by an email to ***** in December.

Therefore you were offered an extended period of approximately 2.5 months to activate your account, by either earning more points or redeeming some/all of the 100,000 to avoid their expiration.

While I appreciate you may be disappointed by this outcome, we’re keen to maintain a fair and consistent response to all our members in similar situations. I hope you can understand our position and intention.

Due to privacy reasons, I will not be posting an update to the thread. I’ll leave this decision to you.

Once again, I appreciate you giving us the opportunity to address this matter and hope that we can continue to have a positive relationship with you moving forward.

Kind regards

Red Roo

 

[hcsneb111]

Hi Red Roo,

As you can appreciate my Mum and I are very upset with Frequent Flyer's decision not to re-instate the points to my account.

I still have some questions that I don't believe have been addressed.

[/QUOTE](in answer to your question regarding ordering a new card).[/QUOTE]

Are you referring to my question of whether or not the issue of a replacement card can be counted as activity at a cost of 1,000 points? How was I sent a new card without paying $10 or 1,000 points?

[/QUOTE]For your reference, your mother would have received an alert stating the conditions of the transfer at Step 1 of the Family Transfer process. Most importantly and specific to your case:

“If the family member receiving the points has been inactive for an extended period, it is possible for the transferred points to expire at the end of the calendar month in which the transfer is made.”[/QUOTE]

I have reviewed the steps involved in making a family transfer online since receiving this email and would not agree that any "alert" as such is ever displayed on the screen. I do agree that the information is provided although could be more prominent on the page along with the terms and conditions which are displayed down the bottom of the page although you have to tick the box that you have read the terms and conditions.

I have numbered each point from the "Note section of section 1 in Family Transfers"
1/Transfers cannot be reversed or cancelled and do not count as activity on your account, or the account you transfer points to, for the purpose of preventing your points from expiring.
2/Points that are transferred to a family member will be subject to the points expiry date that currently applies to the receiving family member's Qantas Frequent Flyer account.
3/If the family member receiving the points has been inactive for an extended period, it is possible for the transferred points to expire at the end of the calendar month in which the transfer is made.

Point 1 is covered in your terms and conditions Family Transfers 11.1 (d) & (f) which i have copied below

(d) once Points have been transferred, the transfer cannot be reversed or cancelled by either the Member transferring the Points or the recipient;
(f) Family transfers do not count as activity on your membership or the membership that you transfer the Points to, for the purpose of preventing Points from expiring.

Point 2 & 3 are not covered in your terms and conditions. Why not? Were they left out by the legal department? They seem extremely relevant to members involved in a family transfer.

Point 2 was obviously not applied at the end of the calendar month (31/10/13) as this would break your terms and conditions by not notifying me of points expiring therefore
Point 3 is not really in the best interests of your customers and can't see why you would allow such a transfer in the first instance without having a specific warning prior to transfer. i.e If i was transferring points to an inactive family member 30/12/13 i would like to be notified that the points could possibly expire the following day prior to transfer or even the next 12 months from transfer, at least i could notify the receiver of what to do to stop points from expiring.


I'm sure you'll agree I have raised some important points and urge you to reconsider your decision in this matter.

Regards
****

 

[hcsneb111]

Hi ****

I'm sorry to hear that you and your mum are unhappy with my response, and therefore have escalated this matter with our Frequent Flyer team.

They will be in touch with you directly over the next few days to further discuss. In the interim, please ensure the contact details in your Frequent Flyer account are current.

Your patience is appreciated, and I hope we can resolve this with you soon.

Red Roo

 

[hcsneb111]

Dear Mr ********
​

Thank you for talking to me last Wednesday following your private comments on our social media pages, and your earlier conversations with the Frequent Flyer Service Centre, regarding your expired Qantas points.

As you requested, this is our written confirmation that we are unable to reinstate your Qantas points.

For the sake of context, our records show that a family member transferred 100,000 points to your account on the 15th of October 2013. This transaction was done online where our members are alerted that family transfers do not count as activity to prevent points from expiring. These points were set to expire on the 31st of December 2013, giving you six weeks to use them.

All your contact details had been updated or confirmed when you called us on the 13th of October 2013. As a result, we were confident that the letter and email we sent you to alert you that your points would expire on the 31st of December 2013 were going to the right places: (Address) and (email address) respectively.

Mr ********, although I am not unsympathetic to your situation, I hope you will accept that we had given you the opportunity to use your points and therefore cannot agree to reinstate them.

I realise that this is not the outcome you were hoping for but I trust that we will have the opportunity to restore your opinion of our service in the future.

Yours sincerely
(*********)
The Qantas Club and Frequent Flyer Service Centre

​

 

[hcsneb111]

That is terrible news. I had high hopes however, QFF response is very disappointing.

Don't back off. Maybe, try other social media avenues.....companies seem to respond differently when exposed to a large vocal audience. Good luck!

I might call CA or TT. Qantas is big news at the moment

 

[Princess Fiona]

It's very disappointing, but given the explanation from Red Roo not surprising.
At the time of transfer your mother was apparently warned that the points would expire and then a letter and email followed prior to the points expiry over a 2.5 month period.
IMHO if the above is correct then QF did everything possible to help you.

 

[Princess Fiona]

I might call CA or TT. Qantas is big news at the moment

Please don't, it will only look bad (for both you and QF)

 

[hcsneb111]

It's very disappointing, but given the explanation from Red Roo not surprising.
At the time of transfer your mother was apparently warned that the points would expire and then a letter and email followed prior to the points expiry over a 2.5 month period.
IMHO if the above is correct then QF did everything possible to help you.

Read my response to Red Roo.

2/Points that are transferred to a family member will be subject to the points expiry date that currently applies to the receiving family member's Qantas Frequent Flyer account.
3/If the family member receiving the points has been inactive for an extended period, it is possible for the transferred points to expire at the end of the calendar month in which the transfer is made.

Why do they leave these 2 points off the terms and conditions? I believe the member transferring the points would like to be privy to this information to avoid such a situation.

 

[hcsneb111]

Please don't, it will only look bad (for both you and QF)

This would probably be too distressing for my mum anyway

 

[Moody]

This QFF program is a mess! Last Activity Date is meaningless and misleading, and now points from legitimate activity can be cancelled if you dare to use a family transfer.

T&C madness which only makes sense to the bean counters at Qantas and their apologists.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Read my response to Red Roo.

2/Points that are transferred to a family member will be subject to the points expiry date that currently applies to the receiving family member's Qantas Frequent Flyer account.
3/If the family member receiving the points has been inactive for an extended period, it is possible for the transferred points to expire at the end of the calendar month in which the transfer is made.

Why do they leave these 2 points off the terms and conditions? I believe the member transferring the points would like to be privy to this information to avoid such a situation.

Were you both aware of the published T&C's at the time of the transfer?
What happened to the letter and email which were sent advising of the imminent points expiry?

 

[medhead]

It's very disappointing, but given the explanation from Red Roo not surprising.
At the time of transfer your mother was apparently warned that the points would expire and then a letter and email followed prior to the points expiry over a 2.5 month period.
IMHO if the above is correct then QF did everything possible to help you.

The problem for QF is they terms and conditions explicitly state points will expire at midnight on the end of the 18th after last activity. It explicit states when they will expire and do not say points will expire after that time. That suggests a one shot chance to expire the points. If points going into the account don't reset the counter then expiry the points seems contrary to that condition.

 

[hcsneb111]

This QFF program is a mess! Last Activity Date is meaningless and misleading, and now points from legitimate activity can be cancelled if you dare to use a family transfer.

T&C madness which only makes sense to the bean counters at Qantas and their apologists.

Seems this way. The first transfers made to one of my siblings by my mum was doubled up (i.e 200,000 points transferred). When my mum called up to sort it out the telemarketer had the hide of accusing her of pressing the button twice. Happened a 2nd time when the next transfer was done.

The computer glitch breaks QFF T & C

[h=2]11. Family transfers[/h]11.1 Up to four (4) times in any 12 month period a Member may transfer some of their Points to an Eligible Family Member, on the following basis:
(c) a transfer must be for at least 5,000 Points but no more than 100,000 Points, and must be in whole numbers of Points;

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I will contact them tomorrow and also get legal advice about the terms and conditions.

well this is interesting... unfortunately for you on the one hand the message is on the transfer page. i just went to transfer points to an inactive account to see if a separate box would be displayed, but before i hit 'review' I went back and noticed the warning is there... before you even fill in the details of the recipient. however... I only saw the warning because i went back and specifically looked for it because of this post! as strange as it seems, it's pretty easy to miss.

however - the terms and conditions still don't really cover the issue... why not include the paragraph above (quoted by QF) in the terms and conditions? Pretty easy to do.

why not have a separate pop-up screen to advise of the risk of transferring to inactive accounts? or is there one (i didn't proceed to the next stage of the transfer). QF has such a pop up screen when trying to buy a ticket in China for example (ie you must go to the local office).

It would be interesting to see how long tat warning has been on that page. I have never noticed it before. Maybe someone has a cache?

 

[hcsneb111]

Only my mum read T&C when making the transfer. Points 2 & 3 above are not in the T & C

The letter was never received. Emails were not read until after the points expired.

 

[hcsneb111]

well this is interesting... unfortunately for you on the one hand the message is on the transfer page. i just went to transfer points to an inactive account to see if a separate box would be displayed, but before i hit 'review' I went back and noticed the warning is there... before you even fill in the details of the recipient. however... I only saw the warning because i went back and specifically looked for it because of this post! as strange as it seems, it's pretty easy to miss.

however - the terms and conditions still don't really cover the issue... why not include the paragraph above (quoted by QF) in the terms and conditions? Pretty easy to do.

why not have a separate pop-up screen to advise of the risk of transferring to inactive accounts? or is there one (i didn't proceed to the next stage of the transfer). QF has such a pop up screen when trying to buy a ticket in China for example (ie you must go to the local office).

It would be interesting to see how long tat warning has been on that page. I have never noticed it before. Maybe someone has a cache?

Exactly my point i asked Qantas but they failed to answer.

Points 2 & 3 are probably the most relevant pieces of information when doing a family transfer but they are not in the T & C. Why?

 

[mannej]

Emails were not read until after the points expired.

And why would you be disclosing this in a public forum?

 

[hcsneb111]

And why would you be disclosing this in a public forum?

\

why not? someone asked