2016 F1 Thread

[moa999]

Ruthless indeed, and done just after the Russian GP. Don't need to deal with Putin for another 12mths

 

[JessicaTam]

And they are racing in Spain!

 

[JessicaTam]

WOW! I didn't see that coming!

It will certainly make the next two hours very interesting.

 

[serfty]

And they are racing in Spain!

Oh dear ... no they are not!

 

[cjd600]

Go Dan!......

 

[Meggsy]

It was bound to happen with two healthy mercs going at it. If not this race then soon. I see a Senna/Prost relationship developing here.

 

[JessicaTam]

Noooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[moa999]

Reported tweet by Webber (either fake or quickly removed)

"RBR strat error sees Ric miss out on podium while new Marko fav ends up on top step. Massive sense of déjà vu"

 

[moa999]

With their cough top speed, track position and under stopping needs to be RBR base strategy.

Actually thought VET was on for the win both before and after his 3rd pit

 

[eastwest101]

Just goes to show that F1 can be interesting to watch if both Mercedes car conveniently take each-other out. I think this race is an illustration of what this and last season of F1 would have been like without a totally dominant Mercedes team, we actually saw some interesting tactics with bluff and counter-bluff pit stop strategies between Red Bull and Ferrari and cars actually racing each other for the lead and podium places while coming perilously close to running out of grip, unlike the usual transmission of both Mercs cars sailing off into the distance never to be seen again by the rest of the field.

Anyone else here who was watching game to apportion blame between HAM and ROS? I thought they both shared some blame in that ROS seemed to be very slow and then tried to cover off HAM a bit too late, HAM had only 3 choices when he arrived coming up behind ROS at a great rate of knots, he could have just driven into the back of ROS or taken the inside (which he chose) or taken the outside (which may or may not have worked out for them both - we'll never know) but from reviewing the footage its possible that ROS didn't realise that HAM was that close, in any case - once HAM was forced out onto the grass their fates were both sealed from then on. As others have said - its surprising that it hasn't happened more often actually as the sheer performance advantage of the two Mercedes cars means that they are more likely to be around each-other on the track than any of the other cars!

I think this track certainly suited the Red Bull cars better than Ferrari but remember that this Barcelona track is usually famous for being a "boring" track with limited overtaking opportunities but by removing both the Mercedes cars (I heard the crowd erupt when the two Mercedes cars crashed) and getting your tyre stop strategy right, keeping your head and with a bit of luck you can still win races like this even if you don't necessarily have the fastest car. Pretty fun race to watch because there was actually a distinct possibility that any one of the four Red Bull and Ferrari drivers could have potentially won this race.

I just think it was bad luck for RIC and for VET that their 3 stop strategy wasn't the right one, but that's only clear in hindsight now and its just part of the bluffing and counter-bluff between Red Bull and Ferrari, it could have easily gone the other way with a very different but still exciting result. The biggest revelation was that VES is maturing as a driver and just isn't the crazy young kid who can drive the wheels off a car and overtake well, but can also pace himself and look after his tyres and keep it all tidy once he is in front.

As Brundle said upon VES getting the chequered flag - "Formula One needs a good news story and this is it."

Back to usual service for the rest of the season?

 

[docjames]

Watched with three mates last night. We roared (and woke up the guy whose house it was wife!) when the MBs crashed out.

ROS perfectly entitled to protect the inside line. HAM closure rate very high, at least he threw it onto the grass than run up the back of him. The UK-biased commentary was painful. I think Niki Lauda was reasonably accurate in his assessment - HAM was obliged to avoid him. He was nowhere near alongside as ROS moved (only once - again within the rules). At the end of the day, "racing incident" but I think ROS perfectly entitled to protect his line, it's up to the guy behind to either get alongside cleanly or not run into the back of the guy in front.

I'm a bit suss on the tyre strategy given this is a test track, these guys have a ton of data and should know exactly how long the mediums will last. It was pretty clear early on just watching on TV that a two stopper was going to be the play to go for and they had the opportunity to do that with RIC, or otherwise going to a soft set much closer to the end (and hoping for a much larger performance difference). In the end they ended up doing neither - too early to put on the softs, too late to have made the mediums work and missed their opportunity. RIC must be absolutely spewing. Mark Webber's post on twitter (and the deleted one) is "enlightening" for the conspiracy theorists (which is how i'm leaning a little in this case....).

A three stopper might be theoretically faster with no traffic - which of course is never the case. But what would I know - they have about 15 guys with laptops in the back room looking at everything, plus another 10 on the pit wall.

The issue with this track is that the final corner onto the straight is a bit like turn 16 at Melbourne - too long and fast so the guy behind cant get close enough for the given length of the straight. And there's a ton of constant radius corners so on clear track you can be fast but behind someone the downforce gets lost and you cant make any moves. Even the slow chicane doesn't have a clear lead in so no braking opportunity into it. Melbourne is a bit the same....

It will be even worse in coming years if they press ahead with more downforce as they are proposing......

 

[pjm99au]

The Mercedes team confirmed Rosberg selected the wrong engine mode prior to the start and was some, claimed, 180hp down on power relative to Hamilton at the collision. His engine was in energy harvesting mode which why is tail light was flashing when Hamilton went to overtake. I would assume that was why he miscalculated the blocking move. Harsh to place any blame on Hamilton in that case when neither driver was expecting Rosberg to be that slow

 

[KLN]

i had just finished saying to my family "wouldn't it be great if they took each other out". great start to a race. Brundle should've been crucified for his commentary, and Fox Sports for cutting the podium too. Bummer for Daniel, but pleased for Max.

 

[pjm99au]

And my favourite moment from the GP

Vettel team radio just after Danny ric's unsuccessful overtake attempt with Vettel carrying on in his usual way

Vettel: "are we racing or playing ping pong"

Brundle "oh stop moaning"

 

[moa999]

Harsh to place any blame on Hamilton in that case when neither driver was expecting Rosberg to be that slow

The minute Hamilton saw he was going to get moved of the road he should have braked, rather than putting his whole car on the grass...

Reality is he should have gone around the outside rather than inside -- always much safer if you have speed advantage

 

[pjm99au]

Reality is he should have gone around the outside rather than inside -- always much safer if you have speed advantage

The inside line was the safer option -it was a right hand corner coming up next - Rosberg shifted off the racing line to block him

 

[eastwest101]

When you watch the replay it had to be a split second decision for HAM due to his speed and ROS being in harvesting mode meant that there was quite a large speed differential between the two Mercedes cars at that moment, the 3 choices HAM had were
1. do nothing and drive straight up the back of ROS's car = stupid option
2. take the inside line and hope that the overtake sticks or that ROS realizes that I am on his inside = riskier option but hey they're paid to race!
3. take the outside line and hope that ROS realises I am there even if I don't overtake we would both still be in the race = still may have been the safer option (in hindsight)

I only wanted to make the point that HAM had a very short time to make that decision but I still sort of think that both Mercedes drivers can share the blame here.

About RIC and the 2-stop vs 3 stop strategy, there is an interesting comment by RIC that I can quote here:

"Sure I'm bitter right now – not with Max, not at all, just bitter at the situation."

Ricciardo said his performance "just didn't make any sense". "Seb had already jumped us. Then you're required to pass not only Seb but then pass three cars on track when we know we're down on speed and it's a hard track to pass on," he said. "It just didn't make any sense. I thought, at the time, we did it because everyone else was going to do it.
"Normally, the guy in the lead gets the better strategy (but) it didn't work out today."


Read more: Daniel Ricciardo laments Red Bull strategy in Spanish Grand Prix
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So the implication is that maybe Red Bull "split their strategy" between a 2 stop and 3 stop in reaction to Ferrari splitting their strategy. As others have pointed out its just a weird situation when you think about it because when you look at the quotes from RIC above, you could feasibly put those words in the mouth of VET and they would be equally relevant to VET and the Ferrari strategies! As RIC implies in his comments - you could understand the Ferrari team trying to make something happen as they were behind the Red Bull team when they started to split their strategy given that they had a faster car in a straight line than Red Bull, but a difficult track to overtake and it looked that "the undercut" was working as a viable strategy at the time.

Anyway - the lack of Mercedes cars running allowed the focus of the race to fall on the Red Bull and Ferrari teams and their various strategies/bluffs and counter bluffs so that VES, RIC and VET and RAI were fighting for 1st to 4th places in Spain rather than all of them fighting for a 3rd podium place.

I'll also add that I saw it live on Fox instead of the delayed highlights telecast on Ten/One, it would have been a very confusing mess to watch it on the One/Ten delayed highlights package (especially if you hadn't had the result spoilt).

 

[Pleb Status]

Well done to Dan and Red Bull on his first pole. Interesting to see how the race goes and starting on the Supersoft.

 

[KLN]

oh Yes Daniel! reminds me of 2012 when we were at Monaco and Webber took 2nd, but Schumacher had a grid penalty, so we knew he was on Pole. well driven Daniel. much yelling in our lounge room here tonite!!!

 

[JessicaTam]

I am heading home after a weekend away, so I missed qual. Looking forward to tonight's race to reignite some interest.