27th February Big Qantas announcement

[Melburnian1]

Are so called 'tag' flights QF107 and QF108 from LAX to JFK and return candidates for the QF 'chopping block?'

AA operates frequent flights between the two. Is it really just pride that sees QF operating a 744 across the USA, or is there a commercial reason such as passenger attractiveness, maintenance of a true 'own metal' network or freight to operate these flights?

Are they usually reasonably full due to QF passengers from or to SYD, MEL and BNE squeezing in, or are the loadings highly seasonal, lowering in winter?

 

[dk4]

It gets more tricky when deciding what to do with indirect costs such as brand marketing or executive salaries. Inevitably some costs will be allocated back to a route - using various techniques that can vary in their arbitrariness - and others lumped into a corporate overhead bucket, separate from the route's profit centre accounting entity entirely.

Yes, the quirks of accounting techniques can be very tricky. But assuming that all "corporate costs" are being shared fairly across all profit centres at QAN, and not all just lobbed arbitrarily onto QFi's accounts...

Then with an ever decreasing range of routes, it becomes structurally difficult for QFi to ever make a profit. As the amount of return required per flight to cover fixed corporate costs increases in proportion to network reduction (even with matched operational job redundancies). Thus as Qantas continually dismantles the scale of it international operation, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy that it can't be a viable business.

Which leads one to a possible conclusion, that the board's strategy may be - intentional renationalisation of a failed QFi? Where taxpayers will fund QFi to fly at a loss, while QFd remains private and reaps the benefits from having a nationalised namesake flying internationally. (If the board are smart, then QFd is floated away from QAN and all the restrictions of the QSA at the same time... but QFd retains brand & loyalty rights and charges the re-nationalised QFi a fee to use it. )

Which could mean QFi sold back to the government in significantly worse condition, but for a higher price, than when the government flogged it off in the first place! Genius :shock:

 

[Nizar]

Are so called 'tag' flights QF107 and QF108 from LAX to JFK and return candidates for the QF 'chopping block?'

AA operates frequent flights between the two. Is it really just pride that sees QF operating a 744 across the USA, or is there a commercial reason such as passenger attractiveness, maintenance of a true 'own metal' network or freight to operate these flights?

Are they usually reasonably full due to QF passengers from or to SYD, MEL and BNE squeezing in, or are the loadings highly seasonal, lowering in winter?

Good questions and I am keen to know the answers too.

 

[petercr]

Is it really just pride that sees QF operating a 744 across the USA, or is there a commercial reason such as passenger attractiveness, maintenance of a true 'own metal' network or freight to operate these flights?

Are they usually reasonably full due to QF passengers from or to SYD, MEL and BNE squeezing in, or are the loadings highly seasonal, lowering in winter?

Possibly yes some pride but with the alternative of the plane sitting on the ground in LAX for12hrs+, getting bums on seats would bring in $. The flight we got in Feb last year from LAX was chockas (due to previous day's cancellation) and back a couple of weeks later was probably 75% full

 

[VHOEJ]

There are a lot of reasons to keep it going - the 747 is at times during the year too big but other times it is full. Cargo is very important but also the corporate market pay for it. AA's frequencies are one thing but thier product is still well below what QF offers.

In an ideal world, the BNE service would operate as a 787-9 and then continue the tag onto JFK. That is the right size aircraft.

 

[docjames]

Possibly yes some pride but with the alternative of the plane sitting on the ground in LAX for12hrs+, getting bums on seats would bring in $. The flight we got in Feb last year from LAX was chockas (due to previous day's cancellation) and back a couple of weeks later was probably 75% full

A combination of
- aircraft on ground anyway (costing money for no cash flow)
- combining pax from syd, mel and BNE who are heading to/returning f JFK who would rather stay on QF than go on aa
- freight is not insignificant apparently on this route

 

[Ansett]

Gentlemen

Can we please stop with the personal attacks and get back on topic I have and Im sure others have no interest in this squabble PLEASE take it elsewhere.

Thank you

 

[Jean Prouvaire]

...with an ever decreasing range of routes, it becomes structurally difficult for QFi to ever make a profit. As the amount of return required per flight to cover fixed corporate costs increases in proportion to network reduction (even with matched operational job redundancies). Thus as Qantas continually dismantles the scale of it international operation, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy that it can't be a viable business.

Presumably the $2 billion cost reduction drive is intended to dramatically decrease the fixed cost base.

But, yeah, as long as you're not making a loss (on a direct cost basis) on every additional route you put on, it's better to be able to spread indirect/fixed costs over a greater number of routes.

The problem therefore, presumably, is that the incremental revenues of some routes did not even cover their incremental direct costs, let alone contribute to paying down the corporate overhead. Hence, them being axed, I assume.

Which leads one to a possible conclusion, that the board's strategy may be - intentional renationalisation of a failed QFi? Where taxpayers will fund QFi to fly at a loss, while QFd remains private and reaps the benefits from having a nationalised namesake flying internationally.

Sounds a bit far-fetched to me... though it could explain why QFi and QFd were structurally separated a little while back.

 

[davidj]

I agree with John regarding Australia getting a bad name overseas. I was coughet not long ago, while I didn't visit any bars as such, I did walk down the main stretch in Patong Beach, and it seemed most of the bars were full of Aussies getting wasted. It explains why in my travels throughout the entire island, and neighbouring islands (being there for a few days) I didn't bump into a SINGLE Australian. I guess it begs the question, why do some Aussies feel the need to travel thousands of miles, just to drink, cause trouble, and nurse a sore head, when they could, and are doing that back home (I guess its the Australian way right?). Each to their own.

Anyway back on topic... point is "bogans" are not limited to, or the sole demographic for Jetstar. On travelling from Singapore to Melbourne on Singapore Air, there was this "bogan" Aussie, tattooed wearing a singlet, shorts, thongs, about 4 bags of duty free vodka, and behaving as such where my dead dropped in shame (as an Aussie). Point is a certain type ("bogan" in this case) is not confined to a single airline.

Jetstar is increasingly pulling more corporate clients (as Virgin has), as posted earlier Bill flew Jetstar to Darwin a few days ago, showing the airline is being utilised by politicians. There is a place for Jetstar in the market.

 

[Awesom Andy]

Jetstar is increasingly pulling more corporate clients (as Virgin has), as posted earlier Bill flew Jetstar to Darwin a few days ago, showing the airline is being utilised by politicians. There is a place for Jetstar in the market.

Although in Bill's case, I think he would've flown the flight no matter what airline it was - it's the timing of the flight schedule that was important to him.

 

[davidj]

Although in Bill's case, I think he would've flown the flight no matter what airline it was - it's the timing of the flight schedule that was important to him.

Likely yes. I wonder if he got a front seat or bummed it with the "bogans"

 

[amaroo]

Although in Bill's case, I think he would've flown the flight no matter what airline it was - it's the timing of the flight schedule that was important to him.

Daresay that's the same for many others too.

 

[serfty]

Although in Bill's case, I think he would've flown the flight no matter what airline it was - it's the timing of the flight schedule that was important to him.

According to the papers, he only decided Friday to head to Darwin for this after declining an invitation to the event back in January.

Perhaps it was all that was left ...

 

[JohnK]

Better burn those million + points quick smart!

Don't worry - if need be I'll save a spot for you in the Bogan section :mrgreen:

QFF points will expire if I don't spend them on what I want to spend them on.

I have no desire to book a few First Class flights to destinations I have no interest in visiting.

RTW in economy is fine when I am ready.

 

[cove]

John you are lucky that you are based in Sydney and Brisbane.
I plan to be in Brisbane this week for 50 minutes later this week.
Just spending some points on a Double Status Credits run and we didn't want to overstay our welcome.

 

[whatmeworry]

Just looking at an old QFi route map.

What was the down time of jets at LAX and LHR? Would have LHR-JFK return been an option or maybe even LAX-LHR?

Ok I know I am dreaming...

 

[drron]

Check this route map from 1973-
Qantas Route Map 1973 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

 

[whatmeworry]

Check this route map from 1973-
Qantas Route Map 1973 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Thanks drron. I was trying to find out if QF once did a round the world.

 

[petercr]

Drron, looking at that route map brings back memories of doing the kangaroo route back in '74 with my parents and sister. Ah... them were the days, if only I'd kept the carry-on 'school' bags we were given

 

[Programme]

Just looking at an old QFi route map.

What was the down time of jets at LAX and LHR? Would have LHR-JFK return been an option or maybe even LAX-LHR?

Ok I know I am dreaming...

http://davidkeating.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/qf-daily-pax.jpg

That can't have been that long ago, but comparing with what we see today, it shows how QF have abandoned Asia as a transit point in favour of DXB.

DFW is in there along with EZE, which means it has to date from between May 2011 (SYD-DFW) and March 2012 (SYD-SCL).