A rude and devious roo.. why would you bother?

[tgh]

Still basking in the warmth of a recent trip to Europe with emirates, I have been playing the points roulette game with the roo, only to find that on the rare occasion a bullet appears in the chamber .. it is a dud.
The lack of availability for plebs, while a deceit in marketing , is well known .. but it's the arrogance of programming the search engine to offer and attempt charge for economy legs on a J award that takes the cake.

A year or so back, I was offered no fees on my Qantas Ultimate card, and thought it was a nice deal.
I now think that the points are so practically worthless that the whole process is hardly worth the bother, given the looks that struggling merchants offer when faced with the dreaded amex.

I find the the Qantas business model discouraging on many fronts...
As our National Carrier, I would hope to feel a little pride , and I do not.
As a shareholder , I would hope to feel a modicum of confidence.. and I do not.
As a customer , I would at least hope to feel ambivalent..instead of frustrated and disappointed all at once.
The product is second rate , the business/marketing model presents as overtly usurious, and the points scheme is of real value only to limited demographic groups.

I may eventually pay to fly with Qantas to New York this year.. but I won't be a happy camper.
They have buckleys of ever seeing me on a European route again and thats for sure.

Businesses ( and governments ) usually fail because they alienate their constituency.. how much longer before the rude roo is consigned to its ultimate fate as a local bus service provider ?

Herewith endeth the rant

and I feel much better now

.....

 

[UP4014]

I may eventually pay to fly with Qantas to New York this year.. but I won't be a happy camper.

If you've already decided you aren't and don't like flying QF, why do it, go someone else. Then you don't have to report back how you told us so.

Matt

 

[simongr]

You are doing exactly what you should - I may not agree with all of your sentiment but the fact that you are walking the walk to another carrier is the best that you can do. I wouldn't let it get you down though - it is after all just an airline...

 

[jetlagger]

Still basking in the warmth of a recent trip to Europe with emirates, I have been playing the points roulette game with the roo, only to find that on the rare occasion a bullet appears in the chamber .. it is a dud.
The lack of availability for plebs, while a deceit in marketing , is well known .. but it's the arrogance of programming the search engine to offer and attempt charge for economy legs on a J award that takes the cake.

A year or so back, I was offered no fees on my Qantas Ultimate card, and thought it was a nice deal.
I now think that the points are so practically worthless that the whole process is hardly worth the bother, given the looks that struggling merchants offer when faced with the dreaded amex.

I find the the Qantas business model discouraging on many fronts...
As our National Carrier, I would hope to feel a little pride , and I do not.
As a shareholder , I would hope to feel a modicum of confidence.. and I do not.
As a customer , I would at least hope to feel ambivalent..instead of frustrated and disappointed all at once.
The product is second rate , the business/marketing model presents as overtly usurious, and the points scheme is of real value only to limited demographic groups.

I may eventually pay to fly with Qantas to New York this year.. but I won't be a happy camper.
They have buckleys of ever seeing me on a European route again and thats for sure.

Businesses ( and governments ) usually fail because they alienate their constituency.. how much longer before the rude roo is consigned to its ultimate fate as a local bus service provider ?

Herewith endeth the rant

and I feel much better now

.....

Absolutely, positively agree... On all fronts! Devious marketing ploy beneficial for a select few.
Not forgetting QFF is a highly profitable scheme for the 'rude roo"

 

[samh004]

I'm sure I can find value in the points but YMMV.

My tip of the week is to fly to Russia with S7 to get to Europe. It's not a points thing but the cost may surprise you on a carrier you seem to loathe.




 

[Berlin]

Still basking in the warmth of a recent trip to Europe with emirates, I have been playing the points roulette game with the roo, only to find that on the rare occasion a bullet appears in the chamber .. it is a dud.The lack of availability for plebs, while a deceit in marketing , is well known I now think that the points are so practically worthless that the whole process is hardly worth the bother, given the looks that struggling merchants offer when faced with the dreaded amex.As a customer , I would at least hope to feel ambivalent..instead of frustrated and disappointed all at once. The product is second rate , the business/marketing model presents as overtly usurious, and the points scheme is of real value only to limited demographic groups.I may eventually pay to fly with Qantas to New York this year.. but I won't be a happy camper......

Now, there is so much silliness in here, it's hard to find a good place to start... First off, the usual "Boohoo, there's never any reward seats available" reminds me a lot of those stupid media articles on the topic. It's called "Frequent Flyer" program and hence is not even meant for occasional Cattle class Emirates customers. From a business perspective, it is actually very smart how Qantas discriminates in favour of their highest value customers. Nothing bad about good targeting at all from a marketing perspective!I for my part have been very satisfied with all those upgrades from J to F lately and find it perfect use of my points ;-) Likewise, I can't really complain about the product either, nothing second rate there. But the silliest comment is the one about the "dreaded AMEX" and the "poor struggling merchants". These struggling merchants can happily bite the dust in my eyes as they obviously don't give a da+# about their customers if their greed rules over offering convenient choices. It's purely an Aussie thing to begin with (hardly anyone ever gives you a bad look in the US or, let's say, Germany if you're offering your sparkling AMEX platinum for payment) and in my eyes completely unacceptable from a customer service standpoint. I make a very conscious effort to never spend a single cent again at places that charge you a ridiculous amount of surcharge (which, as far as I can tell, is indeed an exclusive Australian thing) or worse even, don't accept my favourite form of payment at all.And finally, if you on't be happy on your flight to the US- why don't you fly with a different airline then? V Australia has some nice fares usually and Air New Zealand is actually also a quite nice choice. Keeps those seats on QF free for others AND you won't be able to whinge!

 

[tgh]

hmm .. well about the result I expected with my deliberately inflammatory grammar ... it was a tiny little bit tongue in cheek... but never mind.
AFF is, after all , a very qantas friendly site , populated with truly genuine, true blue Qantas frequent flyers, so I guess I didn't expect much/any sympathy.
Will my remarks prove to be prophetic ?? .. only time will tell.

Aksherley burr_lin.. I flew Emirates in J , haven't flown economy Internationally for more than 20 years.

I have also carried an amex card for rising 30 years.. guess I might know a bit about it, and the merchant fees.

So.. with apologies for ruffling your collective platinum feathers I will retreat to the middle distance and leave the WP's to continue to chat among themselves..

Cheers

 

[simongr]

I don't get this attitude - you're perfectly free to have your say and you make it clear that you don't like QF. People are probably then confused as to why you have to fly them later in the year given the options you have:

VA (connecting to VS in the US)
CX - via HKG in there amazing new J seats
JL via NRT
JL/AA via NRT

I am not sure why you think AFF is a very QF friendly site - 40 page threads ranting about the lack of priority boarding, death threats to AJ - the list goes on.

 

[harvyk]

Since the premise of the thread is why would you bother? Well whilst I won't say every flight with them has been fantastic and I've certainly come across rude staff, I have found most flights with them to be pretty good, and the staff are usually pretty accommodating provided you don't go in with a DYKWIA attitude (edit: Not saying that is what you've been doing tgh). I've also usually had a lot of luck with frequent flyer redemption, so much so that I'm now down to my last few points (got down to under 1000 points at end of last year) and need to get my balance back up before doing too much more points wise, so again YMMV with QFF...

As for AMEX not being widely accepted, I hardly see how that is QF's fault. AMEX are well known for having much higher merchant fees, so it is of no surprise that not everywhere accepts them, and where places do they add on those fees.

I don't see QF becoming the "local bus provider" any time soon. (Which is what airlines in the US have become), given they have DJ nipping at their heals.

Of course each to their own, it is entirely possible to travel to and from AU and even around AU without ever needing to step on a QF plane.

 

[Robert K]

Can't really expect much sympathy since everything you mentioned has already been done to death on other numerous threads.
It's not always a love fest for qantas on here. Probably the exact opposite.

It's good to winge and get it out of your system, but a personal blog would be a better vehicle for those kind of posts.

 

[Mogul]

So you have no faith in them as a company BUT you have purchased shares in them.

 

[harvyk]

I am not sure why you think AFF is a very QF friendly site - 40 page threads ranting about the lack of priority boarding, death threats to AJ - the list goes on.

Because for every rant about QF, there is always 40 odd people (myself included) who will jump to QF's defense. We will of course then go to the priority boarding thread and continue the coughing session in there...

 

[tgh]

Of course I don't have to use the National Carrier, and my gripe is/was really just frustration at having to pay for tickets because suitable awards are not available.
Walk a metre in my shoes.. ( or any non status commoners footwear).

You have to log on , do a search, and then sort backwards and forwards over and over and over as the search engine offers you business awards with one or both long haul legs in Y.
You have to do this daily, and the tune gets a bit boring.
Yes there are other ways.. but the way I'm doing it is as the roo intends..so I assume the irritation and the frustration is also intended.
I think this is just plain crazy..a deliberate ploy to annoy from my perspective.. who the hell does a J search wanting to pay J award rates in Y ...?????
Clearly I'm on my own with this view... such is life.

We found the Emirates long haul j product so much better than the comparable QF product that there really was/is no comparison.
Thats just my opinion... again probably not a popular view.

I didn't make any allusions to rude staff and the emotive preamble was really just intended as a bit of colourful vernacular..
If everyone now wants a piece of me .. please address the content . not what you think I said.

I don't get this attitude - you're perfectly free to have your say and you make it clear that you don't like QF. People are probably then confused as to why you have to fly them later in the year given the options you have:

VA (connecting to VS in the US)
CX - via HKG in there amazing new J seats
JL via NRT
JL/AA via NRT

I am not sure why you think AFF is a very QF friendly site - 40 page threads ranting about the lack of priority boarding, death threats to AJ - the list goes on.

 

[rechoboam]

I would have agreed until flying business class (sic) domestic in the US and Europe and Japan. Forget "rude" staff, on JAL there were literally no staff to see the whole way. Over there J is almost exactly the same as Y, planes often ancient...
I have managed to book J FF trips twice this year and that was with a bronze account. Now that I am spending serious $ for work travel I think it's reasonable that I get the FF seats. it seems to me (admittedly with zero knowledge of the airline business) that mistakes are being made in aircraft selection and strategically but I think that QF-bashing is about as sensible as bashing the banks for raising interest rates when the cost of offshore money goes up. I don't recall reading daily articles in the US about how bad AA is, or in Germany about the evils of Lufthansa and I fail to see how they are better than QF. Seems a peculiar Australian sport.

 

[anat0l]

hmm .. well about the result I expected with my deliberately inflammatory grammar

Well, what kind of result were you expecting?

Poke someone with a heated poker and I think it's not unreasonable that they'll jump and yell.

... it was a tiny little bit tongue in cheek... but never mind.

"Oops - yes I did shoot you, but I only meant to hurt you, I wasn't trying to kill you."

Will my remarks prove to be prophetic ?? .. only time will tell.

No need to be so pompous; just say that you think Qantas is going to go down the tube and be done with it.

I'm not alikening the fall of Qantas to Moses descending from the mountains with the tablets.

Aksherley burr_lin..

Could you stand to be rather less inflammatory? (Guess not...)

I have also carried an amex card for rising 30 years.. guess I might know a bit about it, and the merchant fees.

So you would know that it's not the Qantas Ultimate Card per se which is the problem, but rather those merchants who are reluctant to accept Amex smoothly that are the problem, or at worst, it is Amex. The fact that you're getting the Qantas Ultimate Card for free is notable, but apart from that you could easily get another Amex card that has a more suitable rewards option, perhaps even annual fee free. That, in theory, doesn't quite answer your gripe expressed in your OP.


Finally, as a Bronze that simply racks up points without showing any true loyalty to Qantas, why should you be entitled to a full slather of award seats? If you want to be fostered by such behaviour, then join a frequent flyer program in the USA.

I think most Bronze members should be able to find award seats at most times of the year (excluding peak times), or at least even try for Any Seat Awards and do reasonably well. This is at least my experience when I was a Bronze (though I admit I was a Bronze last time 2008, and I think Any Seat Awards didn't exist at that time). Those seats may not be in First or Business class, but there are seats. Again, given that First and Business class seats are difficult enough to find through awards, why shouldn't Gold and Platinum members have priority (or exclusivity over a subset) on these seats?

Although Qantas may not make it easy to get award seats - especially the ones you want if you are a pleb - I don't think it's right to the extent that it is misleading to say that it is something you can do with your points. I do agree that the search engine fubar of a J connecting ticket with a long Y sector is ridiculous, and I have written a long complaint to this effect to Qantas. Although they have responded to me on this one, if you still find that it is happening I may consider re-sending another notice again, because I believe this is a real sore spot.

And if you think Qantas is second rate.... then you haven't flown enough other carriers, really. Third and fourth rate really do exist, then!


Finally, unless your are a masochis_, don't fly Qantas if you really don't want to. This is not a communist state or a fascist market; no one is forcing you with a gun to fly Qantas, and you have plenty of viable options. Do yourself a favour and fly a carrier where you'll be happier with the service. Nothing worse than flying something for the sake of flying and then complaining bitterly about it, but at least if you do then we'll know it was expected.

 

[Leumas]

I think the various announcements last year from QF effectively said they want to be a regional player and not long-haul or world player. They just won't admit it publicly.

 

[anat0l]

I didn't make any allusions to rude staff and the emotive preamble was really just intended as a bit of colourful vernacular..
If everyone now wants a piece of me .. please address the content . not what you think I said.

Well impressions count. Especially without the benefit of face-to-face interaction, I thought you'd be sensible enough to realise that if you say something that strong that you'd have backbone to defend your words and deal with the consequences.

"Colourful vernacular"? I'm not familiar with the common practice of calling someone 'rude' or 'devious' unless they really are deserving of those words.


And finally, we have been addressing the content in most part. We'd like to keep it that way if you will continue the argument in a more rationally considered manner.

 

[ReLoad]

Although I am not a shrink, I think it is interesting how a pre disposed idea of hatred inflames and makes the actual event even worse than it is?
for example, If you really HATE Qantas and then fly them somewhere, chances are you will not have a positive experience no matter how good it is.

I think its great that you have found Emirates and their superior product, that's cool, at least you are walking the walk.
Pontificating about the demise of our national airline seems somewhat melodramatic and im not sure that moaning about it here will do any more than you have already done (by taking your business elsewhere).

Like many others on here, we have good times with Qantas, and bad times too, and in my case im either too stupid to pick another airline, or the fact after I have been overseas for some time I get a lump in my throat seeing that kangaroo on the tail knowing soon ill be home where people have the right to charge a 2% surcharge on AMEX transactions.

 

[under the radar]

YOU do have a choice..please choose another carrier to fly with...so hopefully I wont have the misfortune of sitting near/next to you on one of MY 'happy camper' QANTAS flights...

 

[Oneworldplus2]

...I have written a long complaint to this effect to Qantas. Although they have responded to me on this one, if you still find that it is happening I may consider re-sending another notice again, because I believe this is a real sore spot.

Please do.
This problem was mentioned on FT recently, here too l think.
When searching for a booking eg; MEL-LAX (J)
And the search comes back;
MEL-SYD (J)
SYD-LAX (Y)
Charged J award price, that is a blatant rip off.

However, if the points were adjusted to 1 J sector (MEL-SYD) and Y (SYD-LAX) the next, l have no problem with that as the booking engine might have no 'all the way J' and is giving you some sort of alternative, over nothing.

Do yourself a favour and fly a carrier where you'll be happier with the service. Nothing worse than flying something for the sake of flying and then complaining bitterly about it, but at least if you do then we'll know it was expected.

I know someone like this, believe it or not.
In their eyes, QF is cough, LH/LX rule the world and SQ is only OK. Fly VA l ask....no response...LOL.