A tale of two children (in J)

[ermen]

What concerns me more is the OP checking out the names on the passenger manifest:

That is an invasion of privacy on the part of the OP towards all other passengers on the flight and to my thinking a far more serious issue.

Don't see how its an invasion of privacy. It was the seating plan that they put on the drinks / food cart with seat number and passenger's surname so they can presumably address pax by surname. Certainly an SQ thing and they don't make an attempt to hide it too much. Not sure if other airlines do this (I've seen CX sometimes do this in Y with a post-it - seat number, Mr xx_ and status). In any case, i wasn't going around looking for it, but was certainly interesting that this said person put his style as "DR xx_" on the booking.

 

[Forg]

His name is Dr xx_?
Lucky you didn't upset him, sounds like a supervillain to me!

 

[Bigtones]

I think he should have waited till there was an incident or simply just moved without confronting the father before flight which he did end up moving anyhow. I fly with my young daughters regularly in J & Y and they are 90% of the time very well behaved with only a few rare times I needed to tell them off. So I don’t think it was right that the doctor assumes that all kids are disruptive as I would have been a bit offended and told the doctor to sit back down & put your noise canceling headset on. I have had passengers come up to me after a flight waiting to disembark to say how relieved they were that my daughters were so well behaved on the flight, so I guess they may have had bad experiences. Personally I can only think of one bad experience with a very young child who screamed almost half the flight in Y but then again I was near the bulk head so just put my ear phones in and turned up the volume.

 

[Lynnelanne]

I am not super rich. When I pay for J I expect to get some sleep and it’s often because I need to get some sleep for work purposes, but not always, sometimes it’s because I want to feel human when I arrive for my hard earned holiday - not that one should have to justify the need for sleep. I am one of those who do not think that children should be allowed in J. However being as they are I entirely expect their parents to keep them 100% quiet, 100% of the time. Do not tell me to ‘put on my noise cancelling earphones’, I am not the one who needs to change my behaviour, your child is. I don’t want to listen to music or anything else, I want to sleep.

 

[Matt_01]

.....Not sure if other airlines do this (I've seen CX sometimes do this in Y with a post-it - seat number, Mr xx_ and status).

QF have the PAX details as well FF Status. In J they just have it on the cart and includes all PAX in the cabin. In Y it is often scribbled on a bit of paper and when I have noticed this there re only a few names most likely to the P1's and CL's.

 

[harvyk]

Perhaps the most interesting thing about this thread is that people assume that us parents just don't care if our kids annoy others.

The fact is that the parents on board your flight have probably thought more about how to get through that flight than any other pax on board. This would be true regardless of the length or time of the flight. Us parents will typically have thought up Plan A, Plan B and Plan C. We'd have thought about ways we can distract our kids in both the airport and once on board. We'd have double checked that the children's favourite toy (of the hour) has come along and that it's suitable for use on an airplane (are you non-parents even aware how many toys these days make noise and can't be turned off?), we'll have various snacks, and devices and comforts from home. We'll often even forgo our own comfort and entertainment, all to try and make everyone else's journey pleasant.

The thing is kids are not miniature adults. As mature as some kids can appear, they are still kids and have the reasoning ability of kids. So the idea that someone would come up to me and make comments (before anything had even happened) is downright offensive.

Furthermore, if a kids gets into such a state, there is every chance that us parents are acutely aware. The kids might have reasoning ability of kids, but us parents still feel the weight of society judging us come down on us like a ton of bricks. However remember that kids can also be sneaky. They may try to do something and ensure their parents don't notice. So sometimes the answer to the question of "did you know your child was doing X" is in fact "No, I didn't, because they are a sneaky little cough".

To give you an idea of the sorts of stuff that can make a kid have a meltdown, I once spent 2 hours of a 9 hour flight trying to convince my son that I can help him with the tray table because he couldn't get it to stay up. I've had my daughter get upset because we'd been stuck on the ground for an hour, and I've had my other daughter get overtired on a flight which left at 11pm at night (like all LAX - AU flights do). That said, this represents a small number of the flights they have been on which they where perfectly fine.

Finally, everyone remembers that one flight that they have been on where the baby wouldn't stop crying, or the child would play with the lights and call attendant button or they would kick the seat in front. But most people have forgotten the likely hundreds of flights were they where not even aware there was a kid on-board.

 

[Pushka]

Perhaps the most interesting thing about this thread is that people assume that us parents just don't care if our kids annoy others.

The fact is that the parents on board your flight have probably thought more about how to get through that flight than any other pax on board. This would be true regardless of the length or time of the flight. Us parents will typically have thought up Plan A, Plan B and Plan C. We'd have thought about ways we can distract our kids in both the airport and once on board. We'd have double checked that the children's favourite toy (of the hour) has come along and that it's suitable for use on an airplane (are you non-parents even aware how many toys these days make noise and can't be turned off?), we'll have various snacks, and devices and comforts from home. We'll often even forgo our own comfort and entertainment, all to try and make everyone else's journey pleasant.

The thing is kids are not miniature adults. As mature as some kids can appear, they are still kids and have the reasoning ability of kids. So the idea that someone would come up to me and make comments (before anything had even happened) is downright offensive.

Furthermore, if a kids gets into such a state, there is every chance that us parents are acutely aware. The kids might have reasoning ability of kids, but us parents still feel the weight of society judging us come down on us like a ton of bricks. However remember that kids can also be sneaky. They may try to do something and ensure their parents don't notice. So sometimes the answer to the question of "did you know your child was doing X" is in fact "No, I didn't, because they are a sneaky little cough".

To give you an idea of the sorts of stuff that can make a kid have a meltdown, I once spent 2 hours of a 9 hour flight trying to convince my son that I can help him with the tray table because he couldn't get it to stay up. I've had my daughter get upset because we'd been stuck on the ground for an hour, and I've had my other daughter get overtired on a flight which left at 11pm at night (like all LAX - AU flights do)

Finally, everyone remembers that one flight that they have been on where the baby wouldn't stop crying, or the child would play with the lights and call attendant button or they would kick the seat in front. But most people have forgotten the likely hundreds of flights were they where not even aware there was a kid on-board.

Well given what some parents let their kids do in lounges I don’t share your sentiment that all travelling parents care as much as you do. The lounge in Singapore springs to mind.

 

[harvyk]

Well given what some parents let their kids do in lounges I don’t share your sentiment that all travelling parents care as much as you do. The lounge in Singapore springs to mind.

Care to provide a specific example?

 

[Forg]

I am not super rich. When I pay for J I expect to get some sleep and it’s often because I need to get some sleep for work purposes - not that one should have to justify the need for sleep.

I would argue, despite having the same preferences as you & having a strong urge to shove the kids out the airlock if they're bothering me, that this is due to your expectation of what you're paying for and not what the airline is offering you as their product. I know that's a bit brutal; but it is what it is.
Due to the cost of J and the fact that a lot of parents can't afford to pay the money OR don't rack up enough travel to pay for the whole family to go along on points, children in J & F aren't that common, so you get used to things being a Certain Way. Unfortunately, however, there's no guarantee & you've not actually paid for a guarantee that things will be the way you expect.

I'm trying to think of another scenario that's similar … oh I know, you book with an airline who's just put their brand spanking new super-comfy J cabin with their fancy new menus etc onto the route you want to use. But when you go to board, they'd had an equipment malfunction and had to replace the swanky new aircraft with an older 'plane that has the older cabin. I mean it's annoying, you've looked forward to it, but there's nothing when you buy the tickets that says they're beholden to running the usual aircraft on that route on that day.

Care to provide a specific example?

When the QF F lounge in Sydney isn't so busy, they only use one end for food & bartending. The other end is still open, just the bar isn't. Or maybe it's like that all the time, I've only been when it's quiet.

So last time I was there (with my FF wife - the one with the status), that "quiet" end of the lounge wasn't so quiet because a family of pre-teen boys was playing cricket up there. Well within sight of their (I presume) parents, who were sitting back enjoying a beverage further up towards the open bar.

 

[Matt_01]

Well given what some parents let their kids do in lounges I don’t share your sentiment that all travelling parents care as much as you do. The lounge in Singapore springs to mind.

I would have to disagree and a comparison to flying J and being in a J lounge are two separate items. The J lounge whether it be in SIN, SYD, HKG or any other lounge in the network are often full of those SG and QP types who may have lounge access but are not flying in J.

 

[GoldCanyon340]

Perhaps the most interesting thing about this thread is that people assume that us parents just don't care if our kids annoy others.

The fact is that the parents on board your flight have probably thought more about how to get through that flight than any other pax on board. This would be true regardless of the length or time of the flight. Us parents will typically have thought up Plan A, Plan B and Plan C.

Have to agree with this. As such the noisy child is the false target, or MacGuffin if you're a movie fan. The real cause of issue is the person who doesn't care about the comfort of others around them so more likely than not the parents not interested about their child running amok in an aircraft are the same people who conduct Skype calls in a lounge on full volume with no headset.

 

[Lynnelanne]

I would argue, despite having the same preferences as you & having a strong urge to shove the kids out the airlock if they're bothering me, that this is due to your expectation of what you're paying for and not what the airline is offering you as their product. I know that's a bit brutal; but it is what it is.
Due to the cost of J and the fact that a lot of parents can't afford to pay the money OR don't rack up enough travel to pay for the whole family to go along on points, children in J & F aren't that common, so you get used to things being a Certain Way. Unfortunately, however, there's no guarantee & you've not actually paid for a guarantee that things will be the way you expect.

I'm trying to think of another scenario that's similar … oh I know, you book with an airline who's just put their brand spanking new super-comfy J cabin with their fancy new menus etc onto the route you want to use. But when you go to board, they'd had an equipment malfunction and had to replace the swanky new aircraft with an older 'plane that has the older cabin. I mean it's annoying, you've looked forward to it, but there's nothing when you buy the tickets that says they're beholden to running the usual aircraft on that route on that day.

True, but I’d be filthy and I’d be writing. It may not get me anywhere, but I have a very good strike rate. The squeaky wheel and all that....

 

[Pushka]

Care to provide a specific example?

How about in a very crowded Singapore lounge the parents let their children climb over seats, yell across the lounge, sprawl their stuff over multiple chairs whilst others were walking around trying to find seats, running up and back to the buffet (we decided not to eat so we don’t not what was happening there). Not hard to find examples.

 

[mrsterryn]

Ok I am for once very grateful I was broke when son was young
He would have been a horrific child on-board I can tell cause he is a lawyer now

 

[Lynnelanne]

How about in a very crowded Singapore lounge the parents let their children climb over seats, yell across the lounge, sprawl their stuff over multiple chairs whilst others were walking around trying to find seats, running up and back to the buffet (we decided not to eat so we don’t not what was happening there). Not hard to find examples.

I wouldn’t have thought an example was required, unless people are blind. This is commonplace.

 

[Pushka]

Have to agree with this. As such the noisy child is the false target, or MacGuffin if you're a movie fan. The real cause of issue is the person who doesn't care about the comfort of others around them so more likely than not the parents not interested about their child running amok in an aircraft are the same people who conduct Skype calls in a lounge on full volume with no headset.

Yes it is about the parent. Unless your child screams with ear pain which was the lot with our first. Flew in Y. Husband and I were exhausted just trying to calm him. 31 years later and still fresh in my mind.

I would have to disagree and a comparison to flying J and being in a J lounge are two separate items. The J lounge whether it be in SIN, SYD, HKG or any other lounge in the network are often full of those SG and QP types who may have lounge access but are not flying in J.

But that’s just an assumption that they aren’t flying j isn’t it.

 

[Flying mermaid]

It’s all about expectations

I used to think I had a right to

- if I paid for F to travel in that cabin

- have my luggage arrive on the same plane as me

- arrive at my destination within a few hours of the scheduled arrival time

- a quiet lounge without people conferencing on their computers or talking loudly on mobiles

Over the years I have been beaten out of those expectations

Probably need to add

The right to a quiet cabin in F and J (no snoring, loud adults, noisy children)

I

 

[Beano]

It's a fact of life of air travel, as are many other potential anoyances of which children are a minor part.
The solution is to keep calm and if it gets realy bad speak to a cabin attaendant.

 

[Beano]

You can add PAX sniffing nd clearing throught next to me in J all the way from SIN to DBX. But that is travel.

 

[harvyk]

I wouldn’t have thought an example was required, unless people are blind. This is commonplace.

See I'm going to go the other way. I can think of virtually no examples of seeing kids misbehave in a lounge. But this goes into something larger in society.

People without kids typically have lower tolerance for kids. In some cases just the mere knowledge that a child is present is enough to send some people into a rage, even if the child is quite, although most of the time it's just evil glares.

So me as a parent, seeing behaviors which are fairly normal for kids is probably more likely not to notice what that family is doing than someone who is either childless, or now has grown up kids (as I've also noticed rose tinted glasses kicks in, they remember all the great times and forget the times their own kids acted like little (censored)).

So this is not to say that kids never misbehave, but perhaps more to the fact that how much that misbehaving annoys you depends on how much time you've recently spent with kids.