A320 German-wings accident in Southern France

[mannej]

Thats like saying Jetstar has no relationship with Qantas.

You are forgetting the fact that a Silk Air aircraft looks nothing like a SQ aircraft, so no that is not a relevant point sorry, smiley face or not.

 

[Pushka]

You are forgetting the fact that a Silk Air aircraft looks nothing like a SQ aircraft, so no that is not a relevant point sorry, smiley face or not.

If people perceive something to be, then that is their reality. If a (heaven forbid) jetstar flight went down then I would expect Qantas would launch a significant safety campaign because they would expect people to think there was a tie in between the two. The fact that there may or may not be is entirely irrelevant for those people.

Its exactly the same concept as the "two people in the coughpit" edit. It does no more to improve security than before. But the move is designed to convince passengers its safer. Perception versus reality. Psychology 101.

 

[mannej]

You are forgetting that your original statement was that SQ had this happen to them. Well they may have taken action after the MI accident, but the fact is that Flight 185 was a Silk Air flight not a Singapore air flight.

 

[Pushka]

You are forgetting that your original statement was that SQ had this happen to them. Well they may have taken action after the MI accident, but the fact is that Flight 185 was a Silk Air flight not a Singapore air flight.

And doesn't that prove my point exactly? I thought it was SQ. Because in my mind SQ and Silk are related. I've certainly booked silk air flights when purchasing through SQ website.

 

[mannej]

And doesn't that prove my point exactly? I thought it was SQ. Because in my mind SQ and Silk are related. I've certainly booked silk air flights when purchasing through SQ website.

No it doesn't prove your point - Silk Air were the operating carrier, they had the accident not SQ I don't know how much more simple it can get.

 

[Pushka]

No it doesn't prove your point - Silk Air were the operating carrier, they had the accident not SQ I don't know how much more simple it can get.

I am going to say the same. My perception is that Silk and SQ are related. Reality? Maybe not. Do my perceptions influence with whom I fly? Hell yes.

In any event, Silk Air is a subsidiary of SQ. And if they were not involved in any way then why was SQ the spokesperson after the crash.

 

[dajop]

I am going to say the same. My perception is that Silk and SQ are related. Reality? Maybe not. Do my perceptions influence with whom I fly? Hell yes.

In any event, Silk Air is a subsidiary of SQ. And if they were not involved in any way then why was SQ the spokesperson after the crash.

Parallels to the current tragedy, I am sure many inside Germany/Europe see it just as much a Lufthansa issue as a Germanwings crash. Outside Europe perhaps the perception is less so. With QF/JQ there is also a perceived (real) strong linkage between the two, inside Australia at least, if not in Asia as well. Not so much in the US and Europe.

 

[Pushka]

Parallels to the current tragedy, I am sure many inside Germany/Europe see it just as much a Lufthansa issue as a Germanwings crash. Outside Europe perhaps the perception is less so. With QF/JQ there is also a perceived (real) strong linkage between the two, inside Australia at least, if not in Asia as well. Not so much in the US and Europe.

Thankyou. That is exactly my point when I raised the SQ issue.

 

[mannej]

Parallels to the current tragedy, I am sure many inside Germany/Europe see it just as much a Lufthansa issue as a Germanwings crash. Outside Europe perhaps the perception is less so. With QF/JQ there is also a perceived (real) strong linkage between the two, inside Australia at least, if not in Asia as well. Not so much in the US and Europe.

But that wasn't the original comment and part of the argument. Yes SQ would have made changes from the MI accident, but it was MI who had the accident not SQ.

My point isn't about the follow up, just the accident itself.

 

[dajop]

But that wasn't the original comment and part of the argument. Yes SQ would have made changes from the MI accident, but it was MI who had the accident not SQ.

I agree. But also agree with Pushka. The vast majority of people won't remember the Silkair accident, and of those who do most may vaguely recall something related to SQ or MI. Of course at the time, it would have been seen as a Silkair accident, but over time those who remember it may remember it as SQ. This one at the moment is clearly Germanwings crash, over time I would expect that perception/recall to be blurred with Lufthansa.

 

[JohnK]

This is a very sad incident. However it is a random incident that realistically couldn't have been predicted (regardless of what hindsight tells us) and is a massively rare event. I can count the number of "pilot suicides" on one hand. The world can be a scary place and unfortunately we will never be able to make it 100% secure.

I am really struggling to comprehend how this could happen on one of my SYD-BNE flights.

Let's just leave it there.....

 

[Pushka]

Foxtel tonight was saying that Lufthansa will be paying the compensation. Maybe that is wrong too but if so it is what people will remember.

 

[UP4014]

Amen to that. I remember being privileged to be able to visit the coughpit on a QF 747 returning from Africa back in the early 80s, the captain taking notes on the best places to see the remaining steam - I'd been in Zim and SA chasing the last of operating steam trains. He also asked to see my builder's plates I'd somehow brought onboard in my hand luggage (~30kg worth)! Some hours later, about 45 minutes out of Sydney I guess, the CSM came back to me sitting in Y and surreptitiously asked "Dr C could you accompany me forward - oh we'll need your carry-on". Oh dear, was I in trouble, I thought. The CSM struggled with the heavy bag, popped it out of sight somewhere up in F and escorted me to the coughpit, where I was given a seat and able to watch the landing into Sydney. For someone who'd never seen that before, I was totally blown away - it was one of my most treasured memories. Made me the most loyal QF supporter - rusted on for life!

Gunzel.

Matt

 

[coriander]

Gunzel.

Pilot? Probably. Me? Absolutely! My status is LTP in railfan terms. All my international flights in the 80s were either conferences or the search for steam. I was "devastated" when my then new wife left Australian to move to the financial services sector - discount brokerage wasn't a patch on subload!

 

[jsoprano]

Parallels to the current tragedy, I am sure many inside Germany/Europe see it just as much a Lufthansa issue as a Germanwings crash. Outside Europe perhaps the perception is less so. With QF/JQ there is also a perceived (real) strong linkage between the two, inside Australia at least, if not in Asia as well. Not so much in the US and Europe.

As a German I definitely see this as a Lufthansa incident given how much LH have educated people to fly 4U over other low-cost alternatives as they are "part of the LH Group". And the way the LH management is actively involved in managing the fallout of this tragedy also supports this. They could have tried to 'hide' their involvement much more I guess, but they decided to face it full on (which is the right way, no question). It is very similar to how an incident with a JQ plane would be perceived as a QF issue here in AU I guess.

However, in response to Pushka's point, I still wouldn't say that a LH plane has crashed. That's just incorrect (although many people will make that mistake).

 

[Melburnian1]

I have not read every post on this now rather long thread so my apologies if this has been mentioned.

While we all know that not everything on the Internet is correct and to treat such suggestions with the proverbial grain of salt until confirmed, a friend claims that some overseas news report suggests that the co-pilot had converted to Islam and hence crashed the plane for reasons of (what that religion claims to be) martyrdom. I was unable to elicit the provenance of this supposed news article.

Time will tell, but a couple of hours ago I had not noticed any Australian media publishing this allegation.

If true, it is even more worrying.

 

[milehighclub]

It is now a requirement for Australian carriers to have two people on the flight deck at all times.

 

[mannej]

I have not read every post on this now rather long thread so my apologies if this has been mentioned.

While we all know that not everything on the Internet is correct and to treat such suggestions with the proverbial grain of salt until confirmed, a friend claims that some overseas news report suggests that the co-pilot had converted to Islam and hence crashed the plane for reasons of (what that religion claims to be) martyrdom. I was unable to elicit the provenance of this supposed news article.

Time will tell, but a couple of hours ago I had not noticed any Australian media publishing this allegation.

If true, it is even more worrying.

Why is it worrying? Falling for some yet to be proven anti-Islam hysteria?

According to Snopes, it is unlikely that he was a recent convert as the source itself was unreliable.

 

[Melburnian1]

mannej, it would hardly be a case of 'anti-Islam hysteria':

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/the-future-of-islam-in-the-hands-of-reformers-20150329-1map1d.html

As a general rule, one doesn't find Christians including Catholics, Buddhists or those of the Jewish faith carrying out terrorist related attacks. The Israelis have to defend their small, advanced, democratic nation from constant attacks. Thankfully Australia supports them in their very difficult task.

Have a casual look at what has and is occurring around the world. Very worrying for all who believe in (admittedly imperfect) Western democracy. As others have pointed out, such episodes on board aircraft are very rare, but nonetheless troubling as we want to be able to trust pilots and co-pilots just as we do train, bus and car drivers.

 

[medhead]

mannej, it would hardly be a case of 'anti-Islam hysteria':

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/the-future-of-islam-in-the-hands-of-reformers-20150329-1map1d.html

As a general rule, one doesn't find Christians including Catholics, Buddhists or those of the Jewish faith carrying out terrorist related attacks. The Israelis have to defend their small, advanced, democratic nation from constant attacks. Thankfully Australia supports them in their very difficult task.

Have a casual look at what has and is occurring around the world. Very worrying for all who believe in (admittedly imperfect) Western democracy. As others have pointed out, such episodes on board aircraft are very rare, but nonetheless troubling as we want to be able to trust pilots and co-pilots just as we do train, bus and car drivers.

What a complete load of cough. Plenty of modern examples of terrorist acts by people of those faiths. Given the French authorities specifically ruled out Islamic connections last week. Anti-Islamic hysteria is an appropriate label.