Abbott in Government

[whatmeworry]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

You will need to supply proof.Opinion polls in the US are actually running against Obamacare.-


The unsettled healthcare law - latimes.com

“CNN, CNBC in separate polling show 59 — the same number in both polls — 59 percent of the American people support Obamacare, and even a larger number of people think the government shutdown is the worst idea that ever came along.”

How unpopular or popular is Obamacare?

 

[drron]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

How unpopular or popular is Obamacare?

Nice try but your link does not support your previous statement.The first CNN poll was not about how many people support Obamacare but those who oppose defunding it.Senator Harry Reid a democrat gave them the headline as he said that showed 59% of people favoured Obamacare using that poll.But did you read further down on the results when the question of do you favour Obama care was asked-

The actual support for the law, as written, was just 43 percent. But a more recent CNN poll, conducted in September, found that support had dropped to 39 percent. That’s 20 percentage points lower than what Reid claimed.

So my point stands.At present opinion polls show a majority of Americans do not favour Obamacare.

 

[drsmithy]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

So my point stands.At present opinion polls show a majority of Americans do not favour Obamacare.

You're quoting Forbes and Fox News. Not much more needs to be said, really.

The fact remains that there is an appropriate avenue for removing Obamacare - pass legislation to have it repealed. The Republicans are, instead, shutting down the entire country and threatening the world economy, rather than using the appropriate measure.

All because they don't want normal people to have easy access to healthcare alternatives.

Why do you support this sort of juvenile brinksmanship in favour of the correct, legal, formal method ?

 

[drsmithy]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

The President has already postponed many of the features of the bill.The republicans are asking and have indeed passed a bill asking for a 1 year deferral and they will pass the debt ceiling increase.
Yet the president refuses to negotiate on anything.

You're so enveloped in blind partisanship you can't even keep your story straight in the same paragraph.

You do realise that what American's call "left" would over here be considered "far right", right ? You don't have to hate him because he's a lefty - he wouldn't be considered that anywhere else except the USA.

 

[drron]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

You're so enveloped in blind partisanship you can't even keep your story straight in the same paragraph.

You do realise that what American's call "left" would over here be considered "far right", right ? You don't have to hate him because he's a lefty - he wouldn't be considered that anywhere else except the USA.

Where have I said left or right.
The paragraph you quote is not inconsistent.Your comment demonstates your lack of knowledge of the US political progress.
FACT-The president delayed the operation of many of the pieces of this act well before the debt ceiling talks.
FACT.The republicans now want to delay the rest of the Act.
FACT.The union movement also supports a delay of the Act.
I am afraid it is your political views not allowing you to understand this issue.Nowhere have I said whether I support or oppose Obamacare as my position is irrelevant.I am pointing out facts and yes some opinions that are obviously unknown by many posters.

 

[drron]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

You're quoting Forbes and Fox News. Not much more needs to be said, really.

The fact remains that there is an appropriate avenue for removing Obamacare - pass legislation to have it repealed. The Republicans are, instead, shutting down the entire country and threatening the world economy, rather than using the appropriate measure.

All because they don't want normal people to have easy access to healthcare alternatives.

Why do you support this sort of juvenile brinksmanship in favour of the correct, legal, formal method ?

Again where do I say I support this brinkmanship?
Pointing out facts when people have ignored them is not expressing support.
And read whatmeworry's link.There a CNN poll shows even less support for Obamacare than the fox news poll.

 

[drsmithy]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Where have I said left or right.

You're quoting Fox News and Forbes

The paragraph you quote is not inconsistent.

Yes it is.

You claim the president is not prepared to compromise, yet also note that he has delayed parts of the bill. What is that, if not compromise ?

This is before even going into the ways it was changed from its initial concept.
To even suggest Obama and the democrats haven't been prepared to compromise is absurd. Indeed, one of the biggest problems is they've been far too prepared to compromise.

The only people who aren't prepared to compromise are the Republicans. Their only acceptable solution is to not implement any form of universal healthcare at all. because they are ideologically opposed to it.

Your comment demonstates your lack of knowledge of the US political progress.

On the contrary.

Fact is that Obama became president with a policy of universal healthcare.
Fact is said policy was implemented into legislation and passed into law.
Fact is that law was tested in the Supreme Court.
Fact is Obama was re-elected despite his opponent's policy platform being repealing Obamacare.
Fact is there is a perfectly appropriate, legal avenue for getting rid of Obamacare that doesn't involve shutting down the whole country and threatening economic catastrophe.
Fact is the Republicans have tried that method, and because they've failed they're resorting to the suicide bomber approach.

FACT-The president delayed the operation of many of the pieces of this act well before the debt ceiling talks.

Irrelevant.

FACT.The republicans now want to delay the rest of the Act.

No, they want to get rid of the whole thing completely because they prefer a situation where most people either don't have healthcare, or are beholden to their employer to provide it.

FACT.The union movement also supports a delay of the Act.

Irrelevant.

I am afraid it is your political views not allowing you to understand this issue.Nowhere have I said whether I support or oppose Obamacare as my position is irrelevant.I am pointing out facts and yes some opinions that are obviously unknown by many posters.

I understand the issue quite well.

Again where do I say I support this brinkmanship?

You're arguing on the side of people who think shutting down the whole country, and threatening the world economy, is an appropriate response to a legislative and legal process that has worked exactly as designed and intended, because they didn't get the result out of it they wanted.

Pointing out facts when people have ignored them is not expressing support.

You're ignoring facts, not pointing them out.

And read whatmeworry's link.There a CNN poll shows even less support for Obamacare than the fox news poll.

Which is irrelevant. If the voting public really don't want Obamacare, then the Republicans will have an easy time winning back the presidency and repealing Obamacare using the correct, legal, non-extremist methods that don't involve the political equivalent of holding a gun to a hostage's head.

 

[drron]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

You're quoting Fox News and Forbes
I have also quoted(though not all in this thread) articles from the ABC,Fairfax and the quardian.Makes me a left winger too?
And you are again wrong in fact-I quoted Forbes who quoted a foxnews poll.And guess how I came to quote Forbes?I googled public support for Obamacare and that article was on the first page.


Yes it is.

You claim the president is not prepared to compromise, yet also note that he has delayed parts of the bill. What is that, if not compromise ?

This is before even going into the ways it was changed from its initial concept.
To even suggest Obama and the democrats haven't been prepared to compromise is absurd. Indeed, one of the biggest problems is they've been far too prepared to compromise.

The only people who aren't prepared to compromise are the Republicans. Their only acceptable solution is to not implement any form of universal healthcare at all. because they are ideologically opposed to it.

Oh dear,Oh dear.Read my reply.He delayed parts of the bill before the det ceiling debate mainly because there were real problems with the bill.These changes were not made because of negotiations.One of the framers of the bill has described it as a train wreck-
Reid: More funding needed to prevent ObamaCare from becoming 'train wreck' - The Hill - covering Congress, Politics, Political Campaigns and Capitol Hill | TheHill.com

And as I said in my first answer it is not only Republicans that do not like the law.Many Unions are against it.


On the contrary.

Fact is that Obama became president with a policy of universal healthcare.
Fact is said policy was implemented into legislation and passed into law.
Fact is that law was tested in the Supreme Court.
Fact is Obama was re-elected despite his opponent's policy platform being repealing Obamacare.
Fact is there is a perfectly appropriate, legal avenue for getting rid of Obamacare that doesn't involve shutting down the whole country and threatening economic catastrophe.
Fact is the Republicans have tried that method, and because they've failed they're resorting to the suicide bomber approach.

There is a lot more than this.Just one.The Supreme Court didn't agree with all the Act and struck out forcing the States to change Medicare arrangements which was part of this bill.
Your synopsis is a one eyed biased view of the situation.


Irrelevant.
See previous answers.You claim the fact that changes have been made shows the President is negotiating.It does nothing of the sort.


No, they want to get rid of the whole thing completely because they prefer a situation where most people either don't have healthcare, or are beholden to their employer to provide it.

Sorry but the House has passed a bill to delay the implementation by 12 months.If it is accepted the Republicans would vote to increase the debt ceiling.


Irrelevant.
Not so as it disproves your statement that only republicans are opposed to the bill.


I understand the issue quite well.
Debateable.I acknowledge that I do not understand all the ramifications of the US political process.I am just pointing to facts and opinions that are contrary to your understanding.



You're arguing on the side of people who think shutting down the whole country, and threatening the world economy, is an appropriate response to a legislative and legal process that has worked exactly as designed and intended, because they didn't get the result out of it they wanted.

No I am not.Just pointing out things are not as clear as your oversimplification.


You're ignoring facts, not pointing them out.
Wrong again.


Which is irrelevant. If the voting public really don't want Obamacare, then the Republicans will have an easy time winning back the presidency and repealing Obamacare using the correct, legal, non-extremist methods that don't involve the political equivalent of holding a gun to a hostage's head.

Unfortunately in modern politics politicians around the world now respond to public opinion.Very few try and debate a position to try and change public opinion.This comment is aimed at politicians of any political persuasion with few exceptions.

 

[Hvr]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

I see unemployment went down in the last quarter. Wonder if the Abbott government will comment or even try to claim credit?
[h=1]Australia's unemployment rate drops unexpectedly to 5.6 per cent[/h]

Australia's unemployment rate dropped unexpectedly from 5.8 per cent to 5.6 per cent in September, helped by a fall in workforce participation and some modest job creation.

 

[serfty]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

unlikely given: "a fall in workforce participation"

 

[whatmeworry]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

unlikely given: "a fall in workforce participation"

All the people that got depressed by his victory stopped looking for work?

 

[whatmeworry]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

The night after the wedding...

 

[drron]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

All the people that got depressed by his victory stopped looking for work?

Well played.I enjoy this comment

 

[UP4014]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

The night after the wedding...

I'm guessing it wasn't in a Murdoch paper.

 

[Hvr]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

I'm guessing it wasn't in a Murdoch paper.

Actually Mark Knight is published in the Herald-Sun. He may well be disciplined for this effort.

 

[paxman]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Nice try but your link does not support your previous statement.The first CNN poll was not about how many people support Obamacare but those who oppose defunding it.Senator Harry Reid a democrat gave them the headline as he said that showed 59% of people favoured Obamacare using that poll.But did you read further down on the results when the question of do you favour Obama care was asked-


So my point stands.At present opinion polls show a majority of Americans do not favour Obamacare.

there was a piece on a tv talk show the other night (sorry can't site the source) they asked a trick question. which did people prefer obamacare or the affordable healthcare act?

and they let these people carry guns...

 

[Moody]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

I'm guessing it wasn't in a Murdoch paper.

Au contraire ... now that the election is over they have a little more wiggle room. The cartoonist is Mark Knight from the Herald Sun, which I admittedly don't read so I have no idea of his "form".

 

[drsmithy]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Oh dear,Oh dear.Read my reply.He delayed parts of the bill before the det ceiling debate mainly because there were real problems with the bill.

I did read your reply. You didn't say anything about problems, nor quote what they actually were. And given this:

One of the framers of the bill has described it as a train wreck-

Reid: More funding needed to prevent ObamaCare from becoming 'train wreck' - The Hill - covering Congress, Politics, Political Campaigns and Capitol Hill | TheHill.com
[/quote]
I can only assume you haven't actually read that article.

And as I said in my first answer it is not only Republicans that do not like the law.Many Unions are against it.

Republicans are against it as a matter of principle.

That is an entirely different matter to thinking it needs some modifications so your union members can benefit a bit more.

Conflating the two is disingenuous at best, outright dishonest at worst.

There is a lot more than this.Just one.The Supreme Court didn't agree with all the Act and struck out forcing the States to change Medicare arrangements which was part of this bill.
Your synopsis is a one eyed biased view of the situation.

My synopsis is what's actually happened.

My view is only "one-eyed and biased" if you think an appropriate response to not getting your way is to throw a tantrum and threaten the whole country with economic catastrophe rather than follow the proper legislative channels.

See previous answers.You claim the fact that changes have been made shows the President is negotiating.It does nothing of the sort.

The fact it has changed at all from its initial design shows a willingness to negotiate.

But the Republicans are not interested in any negotiation. They are ideologically opposed to any sort of universal healthcare on principle. That's why Obamacare has morphed into a coughisation of the Swiss system that's just another welfare program for giant corporations, rather than something sane and functional actual publicly-funded healthcare.

Sorry but the House has passed a bill to delay the implementation by 12 months.

After which they will do the same thing again, and again, and again, and again.

Republicans in the House have voted to repeal or block Obamacare 40-odd times.

They've got zero interest in any sort of compromise. Their only goal is complete removal.

If it is accepted the Republicans would vote to increase the debt ceiling.

Yes. They're basically resorting to blackmail because they can't get the result they want.

Like a toddler who threatens to hold his breath forever because he doesn't want to go to bed.

 

[drron]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Back to basics.The bill is not a Universal health care bill.There will still be millions not covered by insurance.
As to my link.Once again you have shown you don't know the full details.Harry Reid is the majority leader in the Senate.The framer of the bill that I was referring to is Sen Max Baucus.He is the one as the article says called the bill a train wreck.Go and google him.
Why do you keep thinking because the President has delayed some parts of the bill it shows he is willing to negotiate.The delays were by Presidential decree.there were no negotiations with the Republicans on the majority of those decrees.
In the President's own words-
Obama says he will not negotiate with Congress on debt ceiling | Reuters

 

[JohnK]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Just get rid of the word "posts", and I would have thought that exactly describes the state of politics being played out in the media every day, not just in this thread.

I guess you are right. People love taking cheap shots at one another.