Abbott in Government

[Pukka]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

There is no budget emergency Abbott et al are going to slash 1400 scientists from the CSIRO. Almost a quarter of the organisation. Don't worry about the projects and program's they're running. Don't worry that this is an organisation that capitalises on the Knowledge of this country. An organisation that invented Wifi. Nope just slash and burn. Best we don't create anything in Australia, we should just dig holes in the ground.

Don't believe everything you read in The Age

 

[medhead]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Even the ACCC expect power prices to fall once the Carbon Tax is repealed.

Watchdog warns business on power cheating

A shame the power supply companies do not expect them to fall.

I don't agree with so many benefits extended to non citizens of this country. I just look at all these students who come from Asia during my time in uni. Take up HECs and have no invention of paying it back, as they are going back home. They also have the cheek to 'thank me' for the free education.

Are you sure they were on hecs? The whole idea if foreign students is they are full fee paying. That is how universities survive, on the fees.

 

[medhead]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Don't believe everything you read in The Age

I'll believe the words out of the government's mouth that they have put in place a jobs freeze. I'll also remember my experience of not having a contract renewed with a commonwealth government scientific research institute when Howard did exactly the same thing. Don't believe your biased imagination.

 

[Pushka]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

I don't agree with so many benefits extended to non citizens of this country. I just look at all these students who come from Asia during my time in uni. Take up HECs and have no invention of paying it back, as they are going back home. They also have the cheek to 'thank me' for the free education.

[h=3]Am I eligible for a HECS-HELP loan?[/h]To be eligible for a HECS-HELP loan, you must:

• be studying in a Commonwealth supported place;
• be an Australian citizen or permanent humanitarian visa holder;

• HELP Paying My Fees
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[h=2]Commonwealth supported places[/h][h=3]On this page:[/h]

• What is a Commonwealth supported place?
• Am I eligible for a Commonwealth supported place?
• Citizenship requirements
• Residency requirements
• Do I have to accept a Commonwealth supported place?
• What if I'm not Commonwealth supported?
• Can I use HECS-HELP if I’m a New Zealand citizen or a non-humanitarian permanent visa holder?
• Need more information?

[h=3]What is a Commonwealth supported place?[/h]Commonwealth supported places are substantially subsidised by the Australian Government so that students only pay 'student contribution' amounts for their units of study.
Commonwealth supported places are available at all public universities and at a handful of private higher education providers (providers) in some national priority areas. Normally, private higher education providers only offer fee paying places.
Your student contribution amount will vary depending on the type of course you are studying, what your provider charges for your course, and how much the Government funds your provider for your course. The Government caps the student contribution amount, for each course discipline, that your provider can charge you.
Commonwealth supported places are only available to domestic students. Most undergraduate students studying at university are enrolled in Commonwealth supported places. From 1 January 2012, there will no longer be a cap to the amount of study you can undertake as a Commonwealth supported student.
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Only some providers offer Commonwealth supported places at the postgraduate level. Most postgraduate courses at universities are offered as fee paying, but you will need to check with your provider to see if it offers Commonwealth supported place for the postgraduate course you intend to study.
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[h=3]Am I eligible for a Commonwealth supported place?[/h]To be eligible for a Commonwealth supported place, you must:

• meet the citizenship and residency requirements;

 

[vitagen]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Mind you I was in uni from 03-07 and back then any PR could gain access to HECs.

From your quote I think the government has tightened up the requirements!

 

[Pushka]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Mind you I was in uni from 03-07 and back then any PR could gain access to HECs.

From your quote I think the government has tightened up the requirements!

In 2005 apparently.

Under the Higher Education Support Act (2003), from 2005 onwards, only Australia Citizens or Humanitarian Visa holders are able to defer their unit fees through to the ATO. Permanent residents are still eligible for the subsidised (non-discounted) Commonwealth Supported rate of fees while they reside in Australia, but MUST pay the invoiced Student Contribution Amount and Student Services and Amenities Fee up-front on or before the relevant census date.

 

[vitagen]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Actually, They were actual PRs. Their parents managed to get PR for the family. The kids stayed in Perth to study. Upon finishing they went back 'home' to work with no intention of coming back.

Some others came with their parents through business migration PRs and did the same thing above, going back 'home' to work....

 

[Hvr]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Don't believe everything you read in The Age

However, the APSC has released this directive:
Australian Public Service Commission - Interim APS recruitment arrangements

And the following paragraph is relevant:

APS departments and agencies have been advised that recruitment activity underway is to cease, unless an offer has already been made to a suitable candidate. Similarly, no new non-ongoing arrangements are to commence, or existing non-ongoing arrangements to be extended, without agency head approval.

These arrangements are being implemented by the Australian Public Service Commission. More detailed guidance is being prepared for agencies and will be available shortly.

 

[amaroo]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Every industry/profession goes through periods of job insecurity, retrenchments, hiring freezes, and sackings.......why would the public service be any different

Go and ask the the QF engineers based at Avalon to see if they like the realities of everyday life!

 

[Moody]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

I don't agree with so many benefits extended to non citizens of this country. ....

The only "benefit" I get is the ability to duck national service, which is never going to happen anyway. Otherwise I pay taxes like everyone else, and pump-prime the local economy with whatever is left. No ... hang-on .... that's my wife.

But if I was a new PR and couldn't vote I would be inclined to swear allegience to the Queen to get the colonial transportation papers that you all covet. If you are not an active part in the democratic process then you have no right to complain about it.

And Pushka - either you don't understand the TtR implications, or a lot of people are giving bad tax advice. Once you hit preservation age (55+) you get concessional tax treatment on any pension payments, and once you hit 60 it really becomes a very useful tax strategy. Reducing the limit on contributions from $50K to $25K has impacted the amount you can save in tax, but you will still make money for nothing.

 

[medhead]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

My point was mainly about all the money they're going to save meaning there is no budget emergency.

But gutting a science based organisation that has a long history of converting knowledge into money to the benefit of Australia is vastly different to closing a facility that was going to sit idle for almost 2 years.

Yes qantas if losing capability, but it is capability that could be purchased again via hiring. The same can't be said about academics who will leave Australia contributing to a brain drain that is not reversed simply by hiring.

 

[Pushka]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

And those who lost their job in one day when Gillard announced her Car FBT policy.

I've observed that when small business and larger ones fail due to gross economic climates like the GFC, then the wail put up from some is that those businesses should have been clever enough to adapt to the climate. Diversified. Not been reliant on too few income streams yada yada.

So, if a lot of public servants lose their jobs, I am betting we wont hear anything.

 

[eastwest101]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

My point was many about all the money they're going to save meaning there is no budget emergency.

But gutting a science based organisation that has a long history of converting knowledge into money to the benefit of Australia is vastly different to closing a facility that was going to sit idle for almost 2 years.

Yes qantas if losing capability, but it is capability that could be purchased again via hiring. The same can't be said about academics who will leave Australia contributing to a brain drain that is not reversed simply by hiring.

For what its worth I agree that cutting back on CSIRO may not be good, not sure how many scientists will be going compared to admin staff (not everyone in CSIRO is a practising research scientist) but by saying that losing scientists contribute to the brain drain but losing qualified aircraft engineers will not is a little short sighted. After all - aircraft engineers can also move overseas or take their skills with them into other indistries. We need both aircraft engineers and scientists.

The Rudd government cut back on Geoscience Australia staff in 2007-2009 and then they were tremendously surprised that the Federal government had no expertise, advice nor any idea about how the resources industry worked, when it attempted to announce the first iteration of the RSPT and got into a big fight with the mining industry. So yes - lack of expertise advice can lead to stuff-ups and both sides of politics are pretty good at repeatedly doing that.

 

[Moody]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

And those who lost their job in one day when Gillard announced her Car FBT policy.

Employment that is dependent on the availability of a tax rort is hardly ideal, but of course any job loss has an impact.

I've observed that when small business and larger ones fail due to gross economic climates like the GFC, then the wail put up from some is that those businesses should have been clever enough to adapt to the climate. Diversified. Not been reliant on too few income streams yada yada.

One of the heartening aspects of the GFC in Australia was the general response from businesses to batten down the hatches and ride it out. Large-scale job losses did not occur, and consumer confidence remained relatively bouyant. It is only after 5 years of economic storms overseas and constant negativity from Despicable T that we are now seeing unemployment edging up. Even so, most lay-offs and closures are understood by the public to be less about bad management and more about economic reality. In a global enonomy certain jobs are not viable in Australia - particularly with our incessant need for cheaper goods and higher standards of living. Replacing them is the big challenge, and I fear the current mob have no long term plan to reform the economy. Just hack and slash and sell like they always do.

So, if a lot of public servants lose their jobs, I am betting we wont hear anything.

Like when DOCS in NSW lost all those caseworkers and children died as a result ...... yep ..... no one said a word.

 

[Hvr]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

<snip>
So, if a lot of public servants lose their jobs, I am betting we wont hear anything.

Actually we'll hear lots from Liberal politicians about how much money they're saving (they're not!) and what a waste of space they were. Then, in 12 months or so there will be a massive increase in the number employed under various guises such as contractors or consultants because they really were doing a lot of work.

Howard did this in 1996 and Abbott is merely repeating what the great (not!) man did ignoring the fact it was a total failure and actually wasted millions of dollars in retrenching and then reemploying the same people.

 

[Pushka]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

(snip)
One of the heartening aspects of the GFC in Australia was the general response from businesses to batten down the hatches and ride it out. Large-scale job losses did not occur, and consumer confidence remained relatively bouyant. It is only after 5 years of economic storms overseas and constant negativity from Despicable T that we are now seeing unemployment edging up.(snip).

You must be living in a parallel universe to me. If you have no experience of small business closures then while it didnt involve thousands of jobs at once (which is only when we hear the Unions speaking up) then the small business experience has been quite horrific.

And once again, if something is legal, and even legislated for, IT CAN'T BE A RORT. Sheesh.

Children are being abused because their parents are abusing them.

 

[medhead]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

And those who lost their job in one day when Gillard announced her Car FBT policy.

A policy that was NEVER implemented. They lost their jobs because their employers panicked and had evidently failed to set up a sustainable business model. Any business that cannot wait a couple of months during down turn to see if the situation changes is dodgy. In this case, the situation was always going to change at the next election in a couple of months. Bringing up this example only highlights the dodginess of the business.

Oh and children might be abused by they're parents. But they continue being stuck with those parents until killed because there is no one to legally remove them from the parents.

When the parents are not looking after them who is supposed to protect them? The parents sure as cough aren't protecting them.

 

[JohnK]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

You must be living in a parallel universe to me.

Just as well mine is invitation only.

And once again, if something is legal, and even legislated for, IT CAN'T BE A RORT. Sheesh.

If is a rort if they do not agree with it.

 

[Pushka]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

The only "benefit" I get is the ability to duck national service, which is never going to happen anyway. Otherwise I pay taxes like everyone else, and pump-prime the local economy with whatever is left. No ... hang-on .... that's my wife.

But if I was a new PR and couldn't vote I would be inclined to swear allegience to the Queen to get the colonial transportation papers that you all covet. If you are not an active part in the democratic process then you have no right to complain about it.

And Pushka - either you don't understand the TtR implications, or a lot of people are giving bad tax advice. Once you hit preservation age (55+) you get concessional tax treatment on any pension payments, and once you hit 60 it really becomes a very useful tax strategy. Reducing the limit on contributions from $50K to $25K has impacted the amount you can save in tax, but you will still make money for nothing.

My tax advice is perfectly fine tx. And I will restate that the benefits for people aged 55 - 60 simply aren't the wealth making strategy you seem to think it is. And as that situation applies to me, I do actually know in practise, as opposed to theory. . . Yes there are other benefits in doing this but they only apply to capital gains and growth. Something that didn't happen for quite some years. Now we are all just trying to catch up.

 

[Pukka]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

A policy that was NEVER implemented. They lost their jobs because their employers panicked and had evidently failed to set up a sustainable business model. Any business that cannot wait a couple of months during down turn to see if the situation changes is dodgy. In this case, the situation was always going to change at the next election in a couple of months. Bringing up this example only highlights the dodginess of the business.

Oh and children might be abused by they're parents. But they continue being stuck with those parents until killed because there is no one to legally remove them from the parents.

When the parents are not looking after them who is supposed to protect them? The parents sure as cough aren't protecting them.

So if it was never implemented what was the point of announcing it because it was obvious it was going to have massive ramifications for that industry and lead to job losses. But I suppose you think the greedy employers should have just continued to pay these employes even though the business income had fallen off a cliff because we all have a crystal ball and know what new governments will do. It doesn't work like that in the real world those job losses were a direct result of the labor policy announcement and the blame is theirs alone.

Taking the crystal ball logic a bit further why weren't all these research scientists that you reckon are going to lose their jobs looking around for jobs for the last few months as it was obvious that TA was going to "slash & burn".

The bottom line is you just need to play by the rules until someone changes them or be a politician and get ahead of the game and use it your advantage and screw everyone else. Any labor politicians like that?