AFF Luggage tags - some ideas

[prozac]

I have a product sample on my desk called "Forex-Top". It is 3mm sheet and has high gloss finish to one side and lesser so to the obverse. It has been machined and appears to finish well. I think it is used for marketing displays, backdrops etc. I presume a CNC production run would be per sheet so cost calculated on the number of cards per sheet?

If orders were to be set at say 4 minimum and the price a reasonable level of less than $4ea I believe it would not be difficult to raise 100 commitments. ie: 400 tags. I don't believe in supporting the obscenely priced paypal and know from participating in purchases on another forum direct debit works very well. Any thoughts?

 

[samh004]

Also to add to your post, if the cost is met; admin has no money to put into it. So I then ask, should the URL be placed on the tags? I don't think so. The condition upon the URL being placed on was due to admin placing money into the project. I'm happy to place money into the project, and I'm not asking for my URL to be plastered onto the tag. And I don't even have a site making a lot of money off the tags; c'est la vie?

If having the site URL on the tag offends people: fine - take it out, its your project.

I have nothing against putting the URL on the tag, it looks good in munitalP’s design with the URL on and for those that aren’t scared of their own shadow, it helps advertise a great community to anyone that happens to look at your luggage for more than 2 seconds.

Quite frankly, if I was munitalP I would walk away from the whole thing! It is so easy to be critical, I'd like to see someone else do a better job.

I hope he doesn’t. I only raised my point originally because I was curious. I hope he knows that.

I’m eagerly looking forward to getting these.

At the risk of being banned altogether from this site I suggest there is nothing wrong with establishing a workable sale price through "community" discussion. Remember that word at the top of our forum "Community". Then we can all better understand the costs and restrictions involved in the financial component of the project. Right now nobody understands because it ceased being discussed around page 7. Perhaps then members might say "I only want 2 but put me down for six." as some already have. Generally this is unlikely to happen at $6 a pop.

Let's have some discussion regarding pricing.

Tags have already been sold. In fact just over 100, slightly over halfway to the goal, have been sold. Talking about price now seems pointless.

How about, anyone that’s sitting on their hands because the price is to high for them raise their hands. We’ll see how many there are and then do a calculation to see if lowering the price for them and everyone else would make more money. I’m thinking it wont here, but please go ahead.

The only thing that isn’t set in stone and I am slightly curious about is what we do with the other ~300 tags. I’m not worried about profits or lack thereof, I’m just hoping we don’t chuck them away, something can be done. Maybe that requires a different thread after they’re all printed?

Bottom line is I haven’t seen you purchase any, have you? If the price was lowered to say $4, how many would you buy? If the price was lowered to $2, how many would you buy?

I’ll bet that I will still have put in more money than you, as I bought 6 at $36.60. So, if we’ve got to reach a total of $1200, at a lower price we’d need way more members to want to buy, and I don’t think there are that many!

Just another thought. I also have just gotten a CNC router which would be capable of making the tags out of stainless steel, brass or anything else, I was planning on making some business cards for myself like this.

This method would require no upfront capital as the computer design you currently have is just plugged in to the router and a course is plotted. so the cost is mainly material and power

regards

PVCMenace

Thanks for the suggestion. A different design would obviously be needed for such a manufacturing process and I was looking forward to having munitalP’s design in my hand in plastic, it’s really good.

Not wanting to totally shoot down your idea, could you make a single card (if it’s so cheap) and take a photo to show an example of what could be done?

I don't believe in supporting the obscenely priced paypal and know from participating in purchases on another forum direct debit works very well. Any thoughts?

So you were never interested in the design or cost put forward here, you simply didn’t want to use Paypal? All this arguing for nothing? I believe munitalP would give you an alternative way to pay if you asked.

So what’s your commitment, how much would you spend?

 

[prozac]

Bottom line is I haven’t seen you purchase any, have you? If the price was lowered to say $4, how many would you buy? If the price was lowered to $2, how many would you buy?

I’ll bet that I will still have put in more money than you, as I bought 6 at $36.60. So, if we’ve got to reach a total of $1200, at a lower price we’d need way more members to want to buy, and I don’t think there are that many!

No I haven't put my hand up for any because like others have expressed here it is dependent upon pricing. Also I believe I have said what many are thinking and that is the project has gone from one of community involvement to no longer transparent. People instinctively do not feel confident when this happens.

In answer to your question though at $4ea I would commit to 4, BUT I want some transparency in the process.

"I’ll bet that I will still have put in more money than you, as I bought 6 at $36.60." Not everyone has the means Sam. Just because this is a Frequent Flyer forum does not mean we are all well off, drive the BMW or get chauffeured to the airport, or even fly regularly. I would fly perhaps once a year so I am no jet-setter and would need to consider if the price is worth it to me for a once-a-year outing.

If you are in the position to afford 6 well and good but please don't taunt others about what they may consider an extravagance.

Edit. I missed this bit at the bottom.

So you were never interested in the design or cost put forward here, you simply didn’t want to use Paypal? All this arguing for nothing? I believe munitalP would give you an alternative way to pay if you asked.

So what’s your commitment, how much would you spend?

As it happens I suggested the Southern Cross and was very interested when munitalP converted into a real design, something I cannot do. And no I do not wish to use paypal and am quite aware muntialP made an offer for alternative payment. No need to state the bleeding obvious Sam.

I am afraid I do not much like the tone of your final comments which I find aggressive and intentionally demeaning. Taunts like this do not present you in a good light and I suspect many would now be viewing you as a bully. Do you feel better now?

 

[samh004]

No I haven't put my hand up for any because like others have expressed here it is dependent upon pricing. Also I believe I have said what many are thinking and that is the project has gone from one of community involvement to no longer transparent. People instinctively do not feel confident when this happens.

In answer to your question though at $4ea I would commit to 4, BUT I want some transparency in the process.

"I’ll bet that I will still have put in more money than you, as I bought 6 at $36.60." Not everyone has the means Sam. Just because this is a Frequent Flyer forum does not mean we are all well off, drive the BMW or get chauffeured to the airport, or even fly regularly. I would fly perhaps once a year so I am no jet-setter and would need to consider if the price is worth it to me for a once-a-year outing.

If you are in the position to afford 6 well and good but please don't taunt others about what they may consider an extravagance.

So you’re willing to spend $16.

I don’t spend much money, I’m a student and unemployed. I don’t particularly like BMW’s, I take the train to the airport, and my next flight isn’t until April, and only because I bought during a sale.

However, I like the community here, I like going to the social events and meeting new people, and the first time I went to Melbourne and didn’t know anybody, it was my yellow FT tag on my bag that caught their attention so they knew it was me.

That’s why I see this as a good idea and am willing to pay for a few, to see the project succeed.

And by the way, I have $7 to my name right now because I bought those tags, luckily I have all my shopping done for the week already, I’m broke until next month. I’m not rich or well off, no where close.

Taunts like this do not present you in a good light and I suspect many would now be viewing you as a bully. Do you feel better now?

Not at all. This project has been moving along slowly for some time and right when things are starting to work out, people complain about every little thing and it all falls to pieces.

I recall the AFF gathering in SYD last year. Things were arranged over time and agreed upon and at the last second, people started to get their voices, after it had all been done. And that upset munitalP who had painstakingly arranged a few events. That’s just not on!

 

[Ric]

I am totally "gobblesmacked" about how this thread has turned out or turning out!!:!:

My 2c worth and at the risk of being ostracised by other members:

1) Australian Frequent Flyers - here we all are jetting off to here there and everywhere and we are bashing each other over a price of a few dollars for a luggage tag??:?: Come on, we are better than this!!

2) Community - I don't think that there is going to be any member here that would be blatantly doing an excercise so openly to profit himself or herself. I may be naive but I do give people the benefit of the doubt more often than not. I do think that an element of trust should be given and that if there are leftover tags, they will be dealt with appropriately at the appropriate time. Meanwhile, let get the tags going ......... this thread have been going for months and I hate to see it come unstuck because of a few dollars for a luggage tag!!!

munitalP, put me in for another 10 tags if you need to make up the numbers.

 

[Keith009]

munitalP, put me in for another 10 tags if you need to make up the numbers.

Ditto.

Not going to comment on the umm... spirited debate that's been going on for the past few pages for fear of opening whole new cans of worms... except to congratulate munitalP and anyone else who have contributed on a job well done!

 

[Dee Thom]

munitalP, put me in for another 10 tags if you need to make up the numbers.

Agreed, lets forget the politics and think posative !
I'll go another 10 tags if needed.

Cheers Dee

 

[anat0l]

munitalP, put me in for another 10 tags if you need to make up the numbers.

Hands up here if you need the numbers - please PM me if required.

 

[ColinP]

I'm not about to wade into the profit/ community debate either.

I'm happy that someone else has taken it upon themselves to get this thing off the ground (pun intended) and I'm happy with the price I've paid.

I'm not putting my hand up for 10 more though.

 

[Pvcmenace]

Not wanting to totally shoot down your idea, could you make a single card (if it’s so cheap) and take a photo to show an example of what could be done?

Yes it is possible to make up a sample for approval!

I need a high quality copy of the image as the ones posted are too low which would result in an image not sharp enough to get the desired effect.

As soon as the sample is approved it would take 3-4 weeks to get them produced.

I would make a run of 1000 which would mean there is plenty of stock to draw from. and work on a unit cost of $2.50 each plus postage, Am more than happy to forward future profits after recovering costs for tooling material etc.

We have the capacity to hot foil stamp the tag with a second colour but this would reulst in an additional cost which I can not say with any accuraccy.

 

[samh004]

Yes it is possible to make up a sample for approval!

I need a high quality copy of the image as the ones posted are too low which would result in an image not sharp enough to get the desired effect.

As soon as the sample is approved it would take 3-4 weeks to get them produced.

I would make a run of 1000 which would mean there is plenty of stock to draw from. and work on a unit cost of $2.50 each plus postage, Am more than happy to forward future profits after recovering costs for tooling material etc.

We have the capacity to hot foil stamp the tag with a second colour but this would reulst in an additional cost which I can not say with any accuraccy.

Did you say you had one on your desk, of a different design? Any chance of a photo of that one? Or if there’s a website full of examples somewhere we could visit.

I think judging from the last few replies here, we might get the number required for the original idea of a plastic tag, but there’s always next years run

 

[drron]

munitalP, put me in for another 10 tags if you need to make up the numbers.

And another.Lets get back on track.

 

[munitalP]

Hmmmm...

I think you will struggle to make up the amount required let alone make a profit.

Right on the mark JK – as previously stated, an educated guess was we would sell 200-250. As you can see from the totals posted, we are about half way there with a massive turndown in sales after the first spurge

What will happen is there will be a lot of luggage tags leftover. Personally I think the tags are too expensive (I know the amount is not significant) and you could have sold them for less than half the current price.

The price was set according to estimated sales

Also I refuse to use Paypal (ever) and I am still not convinced I want to advertise the fact that I am on AFF if I come across people I know, especially from work, who are able to put 2 and 2 together.

As I have said, and have done for other members “I know”, I will cover their cost and get the refund when I see them next – you are in this bucket...
I could also accept a cheque or EFT if really obsessed with not using Paypal

My maths is not that good but if as posted earlier 500 luggage tags cost ~AUD1200 then each tag costs ~AUD2.40. If the luggage tags were sold at 5 for AUD12 I am guessing that the number of people purchasing them would be greater and it would have been easier to reach the required target of 500.

I think the number of people to purchase tags would have differed very little

Who said anything about profit? The fairest thing to do if getting close to breakeven point would be to distribute left over luggage tags to those who have already purchased them...

And that is quite conceivably an option

Exactly. Once 200 or so or sold at the current prices, that leaves 300 tags or near enough leftover. Oh, so these are not going to sell? These are not going to turn a profit? Ok, guys. Whatever you say. I'm not even going to bother anymore. Obviously my years in business say that stock leftover is going to be worth nothing. Silly me! Bah. The tags left over will eventually sell and turn a profit, so what then? Yeh, ok.

Instead of immediately making assumptions that have turned into accusations, would it not be conceivable to think that the people who ordered the tags would be getting the extras shared out? Do you think I am in this to RIP you off or something? You of all people!!!

Also to add to your post, if the cost is met; admin has no money to put into it. So I then ask, should the URL be placed on the tags? I don't think so. The condition upon the URL being placed on was due to admin placing money into the project. I'm happy to place money into the project, and I'm not asking for my URL to be plastered onto the tag. And I don't even have a site making a lot of money off the tags; c'est la vie?

Without this site, the tags wouldn’t be being produced – we are promoting our affiliation to this site. You are also assuming that this project will make enough money to be self funding – look at the numbers so far flashware, not even close so we must rely on the generosity of the site owner to prop up the costs – yet you don’t want his URL on the card... the argument is senseless..

I must say that I'm pretty surprised and disappointed by some of the comments...
...But I have learnt a lot from this exercise...

You and me both... you and me both... sigh

I can't help but see this post be a scathing attack on myself, and myself only. That's what you get for merely sitting down and pointing out what is going on. As a business man, if you sit down and do the numbers; that is what I am pointing out. The current sale price pegs for about 200-250 tags; what I was pointing out is once those sale, there will be about that many leftover which can then also be sold over time which will eventually turn a profit on this project. I've not once said that I haven't been happy with the effort munitalP has put in however for you both to sit here and attack me like this; very poor effort.

I think the whole tone of your posts directed at the method and means have been directed at either me or admin – surely there is a right to rebuttal?

Sorry I only just came across this thread. So here goes; I have a plastic injection moulding business, and have an unused die for making Telstra identification tags the tag dimensions are 65mm x 35mm x 1.5-2mm thick it could be modified and laser engraved with the design you are looking at on the front and provisions on the back for something else. The Tag would be extremely robust can be made from a flexible or rigid plastic and to any colour, only thing is it could be only one colour but could be very unique. Cost for die works would likely be no more than $600.00 and then unit price of about 0.20cents; so for 100tags $6.20, 200tags $3.20, 300tags $2.20 etc. I'm not in it to make anything as the tool was going to be sold for scrap anyhow! regards PVCMenace

Thanks for the offer – pity you were not here 2 weeks ago...

I do not think anyone has been critical of munitalP who has taken the bull by the horns and progressed the project this far and in very good time. I think admin has been too quick to criticise and that is his prerogative he runs this site and offered to back the project. Notwithstanding this everyone has had an input in the process through the design phase, should that stop once we talk sale price? Well it has stopped.

I suggest that you read back quite a few posts

The transparency of the project suddenly came to a halt when a price was set for the tags without consultation or consensus of the stakeholders.

This post cuts

I take this as an accusation that there is underhandedness or some other villainous activity that you are inferring to in the use of transparency in that statement. I do not like this implication nor do you have the right to make it unless you have some sort of proof something is being “covered up” or “hidden”.

You come in here with 38 posts to your name, accuse a member who has been around on this forum for a long time, contributed to many external activities, organised a couple and has no issue offering his hand of generosity to anyone who wants to shake it? Shame on you – you should get to know the people behind the avatars before making unfound and unjust accusations
.

...and my suggestion was to then put that back into the community, e.g. at the next AFF meet dinner or such. But.....! Apparently, that calls for me being singled out as making "bad comments"

Ummm, no it doesn’t, but the tone in which it was written does

No I haven't put my hand up for any because like others have expressed here it is dependent upon pricing. Also I believe I have said what many are thinking and that is the project has gone from one of community involvement to no longer transparent.

Here you go again suggesting something untoward is happening – again I resent it.

...I am afraid I do not much like the tone of your final comments which I find aggressive and intentionally demeaning. Taunts like this do not present you in a good light and I suspect many would now be viewing you as a bully. Do you feel better now?

I could coin a phrase and ask how you feel now the shoes on the other foot...
Sam is also one who has thrown his weight behind supporting AFF events, in 4 states as well if I remember right – I am sure those who know Sam don’t regard him as a bully, I certainly don’t anyway...

Due to the accusations made or inferred, my honesty questioned in open forum, I am pulling support on this event.

Someone who I know will need to run with this from now as my CC and bank account is linked to the paypal account, contact me by PM or phone, perhaps Notzac, OZMark or QF009 would like a little challenge?

I have had enough, it is utter bull****. I have gone out of my way again to do something for our AFF community, then I get attacked by a newbie who for what it is worth hasn’t bothered to purchase any tags anyway, and from the content of his posts, does not seem to have any intention of purchasing tags.

I have been attacked by flashware and my honesty and intentions questioned – yep, and that cuts as well mate, a bloke who knows me personally and has had nothing but respect shown to him by me, has been recipient of my generosity on a few occasions now without ever being asked to or expected to return the favour – I’m gutted with your remarks, tone and implications.

I do not see my post count increasing much from here on in...

G

 

[Flashback]

A more in depth response to come later when I have time, but this needs to be said now and can't wait.

At no time did I make any accusations, and if you inferred from my postings that's what it was not much I can do about that.

I asked a simple question, and it was more of a "what if" based on certain things happening.

If you like to see it as a personal attack, then that's your call ....... but there was no accusations made by myself against you or your integrity; I was merely asking "what happens if?".

 

[Flashback]

Actually, I do have 5 minutes so I'll do it now.

Instead of immediately making assumptions that have turned into accusations, would it not be conceivable to think that the people who ordered the tags would be getting the extras shared out? Do you think I am in this to RIP you off or something? You of all people!!!

Not at all, I was taking a holistic view on the project and covering all avenues. Being a manager yourself, I would have thought you would have seen that's what I was doing; it's pretty standard practise to consider not just the things in front of you but anything else that may happen as well.

Without this site, the tags wouldn’t be being produced – we are promoting our affiliation to this site. You are also assuming that this project will make enough money to be self funding – look at the numbers so far flashware, not even close so we must rely on the generosity of the site owner to prop up the costs – yet you don’t want his URL on the card... the argument is senseless..

No, the comment was made (after having been discussed at length with another member of this forum) only purely due to the fact that the URL wasn't on the design and when admin mentioned he would provide funding, it was based on the URL being on there. If admin doesn't need to provide funding then there's no need for the URL ; not that it really bothers me, I think it should have had the URL somewhere on it anyway!

I think the whole tone of your posts directed at the method and means have been directed at either me or admin – surely there is a right to rebuttal?

Sure, I agree; if the posts were an attack that would be the case. But they weren't, they were just asking a question; considering what would happen if X was said to be true.

If you saw it as being an attack, I apologise; we both respect each other 'offline' - a PM, phone call, or e-mail to discuss your concerns with the way I articulated my question probably would have nipped this in the bud and it wouldn't have gotten out of control like it is now.

 

[prozac]

I re-iterate what Flashware has said. I never meant to infer anything improper has occurred and certainly at no time felt in my heart that anything had. If you have taken it that way I am sorry but that was not the intention.

My remark about transparency was that the general input ceased at some point. I stated a fact pure and simple. If it had been discussed some more then perhaps you would have had a better understanding of how members felt about the price point and then how many they would commit to at a certain price. Nobody has understood how the price was arrived at as it was not explained. I am certain there are members on this forum who have the skills and experience to suggest how to price against volume and minimum production runs.
It was about involvement of members in the process, not about any sense of wrongdoing by anyone.

I have not once suggested profit, spending of excess funds, nor mentioned any wrongdoing in any of my discussion so I am surprised but sorry that you have taken it the wrong way. The thrust of my discussion was always about selling all of the tags.

 

[samh004]

To munitalP (or if someone has taken this over already), can we get a final update on the tally and how many more tags need to be sold to start production/the design phase?

I know a few members were willing to pay for a few more to get to the target, so just wondering how close we are

 

[straitman]

Quite frankly I am appalled as to where this thread and consequently the project has gone. I could see this coming and almost guessed to a person who the detractors would be.

There are a few here who need to go back and have a good look at what they have written and who they have taken shots at. Unfortunately the people who really need the kick in the head will simply not understand the issue.

This may be a community BUT there are a few who need to learn that manners are needed in such a community. This includes reading the actual words and meaning of what people have written rather than placing your own skew-eyed slant on things.

munitalP, I understand your situation and frustration with this and urge you to continue with the project. Like a few others here I am happy to buy a few extra tags if it will help the project stay off the ground. My stipulation though would be that the AFF URL IS on the tags. What is the point otherwise :?:

Remember:
"If you have integrity, nothing else matters.
If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters."
--Alan Simpson

 

[JohnK]

I can't help but see this post be a scathing attack on myself, and myself only.

I think it also includes me although I was not trying to stir trouble. I don't think there is anything wrong with commenting as long as no one is attacked personally in the process.

..or more likely, 200-300 tags in storage somewhere (or door prizes at drinks nights!)

And wouldn't that be unfair on the people that got the project off the ground?

Bottom line is I haven’t seen you purchase any, have you? If the price was lowered to say $4, how many would you buy? If the price was lowered to $2, how many would you buy?

As I mentioned earlier not sure whether I would use the tags at all times but at $2-$4 a luggage tag I would have been prepared to buy 3-5 luggage tags to help the project, so spend somewhere around $10-$12. But I also do not think it is fair that I pay less than you or the other people who have paid $6.20 per luggage tag.

I hope what I have said was not taken as criticism. I don't understand why some people think it is wrong to question. And while we are on silly questions here is another silly question. What would happen if for some insane reason all 500 luggage tags sold at $6.20?

 

[Flashback]

I hope what I have said was not taken as criticism. I don't understand why some people think it is wrong to question. And while we are on silly questions here is another silly question. What would happen if for some insane reason all 500 luggage tags sold at $6.20?

Careful, I've already asked that question (this is what started the whole "argument"); be prepared for another round of arguing.