Air Berlin files for bankruptcy

[Mattg]

Re: Air Berlin in restructuring talks

If Airberlin does disappear it will leave a bit of a gap in the oneworld network. I wonder if another European airline would be fast-tracked into the alliance to fill its place?

I can't think of any obvious candidates as most of the European full-service airlines are already in an alliance. Perhaps Aer Lingus would join?

 

[dajop]

Re: Air Berlin in restructuring talks

I can't think of any obvious candidates as most of the European full-service airlines are already in an alliance. Perhaps Aer Lingus would join?

Geographically, Aer Lingus don't offer that much more to the alliance. Oneworld haven't had much success with central Europe, first Malev and nor Air Berlin. I don't think there are any major (and very few minor) non LCCs unaccounted for on the continent. Off the top of my head, the only one that could offer a reasonable network that isn't in star or sky team is Air Serbia - it's in the (diminishing) Etihad stable though.

 

[tyrolean]

AB filed Bankrupcy - uncertain future

Hi Folks,

Air Berlin filed for bankruptcy on 15th of August. They are still flying because of a government loan but have a very uncertain future.
It seems that the airline will be split up very soon. Lufthansa seems to be interested in most of the flights. They want to expand their Germanwings brand.

Germany will be now a Lufthansa/Star Alliance Monopoly with some little LCC competition.

No redemption with Top Bonus is possible at the moment. Since Top Bonus is owned by EY, the miles may be transfered to them, but nothing is sure.

It is unsure what will happen to AB, if it stays in Oneworld, what will be left.

So the party seems to be over.

 

[snabbu]

Re: Air Berlin in restructuring talks

I also have a couple of AB sectors coming up next month as part of a 280k. Currently I'm thinking they will still operate but might be wise to look for alternatives.

 

[Mattg]

Re: Air Berlin in restructuring talks

I also have a couple of AB sectors coming up next month as part of a 280k. Currently I'm thinking they will still operate but might be wise to look for alternatives.

If they're in September you should be fine. The German federal election is on 24 September, and I don't think there's any chance the government would let Airberlin go bust right before then.

 

[whatmeworry]

Re: Air Berlin in restructuring talks

AB still sending emails for sale fares. Looks like the vultures are circling AB.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-air-berlin-lufthansa-idUSKCN1B10T3

 

[defurax]

Re: Air Berlin in restructuring talks

The FAQs on the website are really not reassuring. My flights are on October 4, but I think I'll start looking for alternatives. It looks like bankruptcy protection means they don't have to pay EU compensation, so potentially no incentive to operate flights on time or get luggage to their final destination...

[h=2]Questions and answers about the current situation at airberlin[/h]• Will the flight operation be continued by airberlin / NIKI?
Yes, the flight operations will continue. The published airberlin / NIKI schedule is valid. airberlin and NIKI will carry out the flights as published. Should changes be necessary, e.g. for operational reasons, we will inform accordingly.

• Is NIKI also insolvent?
No, as per August 15th 2017 NIKI is not affected by the insolvency. It is not intended for NIKI to file for insolvency. The flight operations will continue as planned.

• Does airberlin have a future?
The negotiations with potential partners have been initiated and are intended to be completed shortly.
airberlin is currently focusing to achieve a best possible plan for the company, our clients and our employees.

• Do airberlin and NIKI still accept new bookings?
Yes, airberlin and NIKI flights are bookable through our distribution channels. All fares are still valid. All sales channels remain open.

• How long in advance can I book flights?
The entire schedule published by airberlin and NIKI can be booked.

• Do the airberlin / NIKI product and services remain the same?
Yes, the existing services and products remain the same.

• Is my voucher still valid and if yes until when?
Vouchers cannot be redeemed anymore. Due to insolvency regulations the utilization of vouchers had to be terminated.
Affected guests have the opportunity to file the claim for the insolvency schedule after the opening of the insolvency proceedings. We will advise about the formal proceedings at a later stage separately. Tickets that have already been booked against vouchers remain valid.

• Can I pay out my voucher for cash?
No, see above.

• Do tickets remain valid?
Yes, all issued tickets are valid.

• Will already issued tickets be reimbursed?
All tickets issued until August 15th 2017 are no longer refundable. Tickets val-id from August 15th 2017 will be subject to the applicable tariff conditions.

• Can I refund applicable fees and taxes?
No, taxes and fees collected before August 15th cannot be refunded by insol-vency regulations. Affected passengers have the opportunity to file the claim for the insolvency schedule after the opening of the insolvency proceedings.

• Can tickets be rebooked?
The tariff conditions, valid at the time of ticket issuance, still apply. Any issued ticket may be rebooked on the basis of the applicable tariff conditions, provid-ed these allow changes. Any applicable fees must be paid by the client.

• Do I still receive regulations for my claim for damages / compensations, e.g. for delays or flight cancelations?
No. Unfortunately no compensations will be paid for flights before August 15th, due to effective insolvency regulations. Affected passengers have the opportunity to file the claim for the insolvency schedule after the opening of the insolvency proceedings.
For all flights after August 15th kindly refer to our online claim form provided by our Guest Relations Team.

• I booked a package-tour for 2018 and my flights are with airberlin. Will this tour still take place?
The flight operations continue. Please refer to your tour operator, if you have any further questions.

 

[Melburnian1]

Re: Air Berlin in restructuring talks

Do those of you who fly regularly within Europe - I travel by train wherever possible - perceive that any other airlines on 'the Continent' are in financial strife, or are the woes of Alitalia and AirBerlin the last we will see for a while of airlines in huge financial strife?

Germany has about three times Australia's population so it's a large market to only now basically have Lufthansa as the sole (major) German-domiciled airline, notwithstanding that LCC operators like EasyJet, RyanAir and so on must have a slice of the market.

 

[defurax]

Re: Air Berlin in restructuring talks

Do those of you who fly regularly within Europe - I travel by train wherever possible - perceive that any other airlines on 'the Continent' are in financial strife, or are the woes of Alitalia and AirBerlin the last we will see for a while of airlines in huge financial strife?

Germany has about three times Australia's population so it's a large market to only now basically have Lufthansa as the sole (major) German-domiciled airline, notwithstanding that LCC operators like EasyJet, RyanAir and so on must have a slice of the market.

For all I know both the SNCF in France and the RENFE is Spain are not viable without their state backing. SNCF has more than 45 billion euros of debt and Renfe around 5B euros. I don't know about other countries, but it looks like the transport sector overall is in crisis in Europe.

 

[Melburnian1]

Re: Air Berlin in restructuring talks

For all I know both the SNCF in France and the RENFE is Spain are not viable without their state backing. SNCF has more than 45 billion euros of debt and Renfe around 5B euros. I don't know about other countries, but it looks like the transport sector overall is in crisis in Europe.

I was really asking about airlines, not rail operators.

I am not aware of any 'public transport' rail operator worldwide that is profitable (apart from perhaps a few niche examples.) Rail operators like Rocky Mountaineer (Canada) are a separate kettle of fish as they are not common carriers or anything remotely like it, and fares are usually extremely high.

Sydney Trains, NSWTrainLink, V/Line and Queensland Rail plus state-owned bus and ferry operators in Australia almost certainly also have high levels of debt but are not in crisis. The historic view is that these operations are close to being essential services.

However historically many airlines have been operated by private enterprise. For state owned airlines, there has tended to often be a Treasury expectation that they make a profit, especially in western democracies which is what I was trying to refer to. Where that is not the case (such as regulated air routes in NSW or Queensland.)

 

[defurax]

Re: Air Berlin in restructuring talks

I was really asking about airlines, not rail operators.

I usually fly OW airlines in Europe and I have to say I'm not sure how many legacy carriers will survive if their only marketing strategy is to offer low fares. It seems that many CEO still think they can compete with Ryanair and Easyjet by offering low fares...

On the positive side AF and KL still offer a free drink in Y on short haul flights!

 

[leadman]

Re: Air Berlin in restructuring talks

i flew FRA > TXL > FRA back in June and there was certainly a feel of "Ansett" about them. I was a bit sad to see any airline like that, but when we were checking in there was only one girl doing ticketing, and under a lot of pressure the PAX were very good and understanding. Germans next to me told me it will not be long before they are gone. Sad.

 

[whatmeworry]

Re: Air Berlin in restructuring talks

Do those of you who fly regularly within Europe - I travel by train wherever possible - perceive that any other airlines on 'the Continent' are in financial strife, or are the woes of Alitalia and AirBerlin the last we will see for a while of airlines in huge financial strife?

Germany has about three times Australia's population so it's a large market to only now basically have Lufthansa as the sole (major) German-domiciled airline, notwithstanding that LCC operators like EasyJet, RyanAir and so on must have a slice of the market.

AB flies some weird routes and indirect routings. Plus their not sure if their main hub is DUS or TXL. LH has FRA and MUC hubs which are probably better for business travel.

Like others have said, AB has a Virgin Blue feel, however my guess is they have legacy union contracts from the 70-80's that probably cost them.

Plus Eurowings probably hurts them as well.

 

[anat0l]

Re: Air Berlin in restructuring talks

oneworld seems only lucky in getting airlines on Europe's periphery, viz. BA, IB and AY (and S7 and RJ if you want to stretch it a bit). AB was the closest attempt to having a partner located in the heart of Europe.

oneworld may be out of luck here. Most of the other airlines of note are either already in an alliance or are of little consequence. Those already in an alliance are usually well entrenched (e.g. LH is a fundamental Star Alliance carrier), so zip chance of "stealing" an airline into oneworld.

Mind, some of those rival alliance airlines (which hypothetically might be good oneworld partners) are struggling themselves, with more services going to non-alliance partners. That's more a headache for alliance FFP members (e.g. a *G travelling in Europe wishing to use benefits, or planing a *A RTW ticket).

Maybe oneworld should cut deals with train companies? (Just kidding - won't happen...)

 

[whatmeworry]

Re: Air Berlin in restructuring talks

Most airlines have the 29 euro deal with DB. Eg. Exit at FRA and take a train to most cities in Germany for 29 euro.

http://www.lufthansa.com/uk/en/rail-and-fly-in-germany

Rail & Fly | Qantas

https://www.singaporeair.com/en_UK/us/plan-travel/intercity-transfers/rail-fly/

https://www.lonelyplanet.com/thornt...-europe/germany/how-does-db-rail-and-fly-work

 

[Franky]

Re: AB filed Bankrupcy - uncertain future

No redemption with Top Bonus is possible at the moment. Since Top Bonus is owned by EY, the miles may be transfered to them, but nothing is sure.

Just had a look on their web site, couldnt see any reference to be able to do that.

 

[Mal]

Re: Air Berlin in restructuring talks

The FAQs on the website are really not reassuring. My flights are on October 4, but I think I'll start looking for alternatives. It looks like bankruptcy protection means they don't have to pay EU compensation, so potentially no incentive to operate flights on time or get luggage to their final destination...

Basically, there is a pre-bankruptcy situation, and a post-bankruptcy situation. In effect, the ruling about EU compensation only applies for flights that were taken before the bankruptcy.

I've seen rumours that due to uncertainty about payment, lounges may refuse AB guests if they don't think AB will be in a situation to pay the required fees. Only rumours at this stage, but if true may affect those accessing lounges before AB flights.

 

[defurax]

Re: Air Berlin in restructuring talks

Basically, there is a pre-bankruptcy situation, and a post-bankruptcy situation. In effect, the ruling about EU compensation only applies for flights that were taken before the bankruptcy.

I've seen rumours that due to uncertainty about payment, lounges may refuse AB guests if they don't think AB will be in a situation to pay the required fees. Only rumours at this stage, but if true may affect those accessing lounges before AB flights.

Now I wonder if QF points and SC will post if AB can't pay QF. I really think I will book BA flights to be sure I get where I want, it's only $250 and will save me the stress of knowing if my AB flights will operate in early October. Plus this way, on the day of travel I'll be able to decide which airline counter I show up to!

 

[Mattg]

Re: Air Berlin in restructuring talks

It gets worse... Airberlin's frequent flyer program Topbonus has just declared insolvency.

There is some speculation that Topbonus miles might be converted into Etihad Guest miles. I'd say the more likely scenario is that everyone loses their points completely.

 

[tyrolean]

Re: Air Berlin in restructuring talks

It gets worse... Airberlin's frequent flyer program Topbonus has just declared insolvency.

There is some speculation that Topbonus miles might be converted into Etihad Guest miles. I'd say the more likely scenario is that everyone loses their points completely.

It looks quite bad for Topbonus, no more accural or spending is possible at the moment. Since Etihad owns 70% of the program a conversion to Etihad seems one option. We have to wait and see.

Other reports say that you still get points/miles in other Oneworld programs.
My last flight is on 12 September (Ansett was grounded on 13 September and I was stranded in ASP on that day...).

The big question: Will the takeover take place before the grounding. They are running very short on cash. One scenario may be that the government loan has to be repayed because of some EU regulations. That would mean an instant grounding.

Then Antitrust is surely against LH taking over AB completely, since they have then a Monopoly on quite a few routes and airports.