Air Marshalls stealing your F seats? Airlines seem to think so

[UP4014]

There must be some pretty at risk flights then… but I don’t see the need for that many, especially in F, if the the coughpit doors are a lot more solid and lately all we’ve seen is guys burning their crotches at the back of the plane.

I wonder if the Air Marshalls are just on US-airlines or if they make it across to other airlines too. Are they required on all flights, or just if an airline wants them there?

The risk at the front would be the moment the door is opened for a coffee or meal or a visit to the toilet.

 

[samh004]

The risk at the front would be the moment the door is opened for a coffee or meal or a visit to the toilet.

It’s surprising the door isn’t placed further back with it’s own toilet and some sort of tray for putting food in there then

I’d have thought the US government would have been all over that :mrgreen:

 

[harvyk]

It’s surprising the door isn’t placed further back with it’s own toilet and some sort of tray for putting food in there then

I’d have thought the US government would have been all over that :mrgreen:

I expect that's one of those cost vs benefits type arguments.

To redesign the front end so the coughpit would be a massive cost which would have minimal effect (if someone rushes the coughpit door, I would be surprised if the FA's \ Cap't \ FO are not trained to get that door closed ASAP, I'd also be surprised if the door is even allowed to be opened for longer than the minimal time required to either enter or exit the coughpit).

You'd also have the problem with longer flights where mandatory rest periods are involved. You'd need to move crew rest area's within the flight deck sterile area.

Since 9/11 (and the introduction of stronger doors) I'd be curious to know how many times a coughpit has been breached by a would be hijacker.

 

[flychrisfly]

It’s surprising the door isn’t placed further back with it’s own toilet and some sort of tray for putting food in there then

I’d have thought the US government would have been all over that :mrgreen:

I think the flight crew in the A380 do have their own toilet. Not sure how the food anad drinks are passed in and out though...

 

[dk4]

It’s surprising the door isn’t placed further back with it’s own toilet...

LOL, you obviously don't fly "upfront" on U.S. airlines. The FAs deploy a "mobile mini-bulkhead" in the area between the loos/pilots and the passenger cabin, when the flight deck door is open.

 

[samh004]

LOL, you obviously don't fly "upfront" on U.S. airlines. The FAs deploy a "mobile mini-bulkhead" in the area between the loos/pilots and the passenger cabin, when the flight deck door is open.

I don’t fly in the US at all, let alone on US airlines

 

[hollydavid69]

Let's just say for arguments sake, the terrorists decided to hijack a plane with air marshals on board, let's face its anyone's bet who will win :shock:, as depends on which side has the most numbers etc & whether they're armed or not, in which case my money would be on the air marshals.

 

[samh004]

Let's just say for arguments sake, the terrorists decided to hijack a plane with air marshals on board, let's face its anyone's bet who will win :shock:, as depends on which side has the most numbers etc & whether they're armed or not, in which case my money would be on the air marshals.

So if there’s 4 Air Marshalls on board, armed, why couldn’t they mostly be at the back, or not more than 1 at the front? After all, they’re armed, it’s not hard to walk up the cabin and take the bad guys out?

The issue is less that they’re not worth it, but more that they don’t all need to be at the front, after all, they’re armed, the terrorists more than likely wont be.

 

[rwatts]

LOL, you obviously don't fly "upfront" on U.S. airlines. The FAs deploy a "mobile mini-bulkhead" in the area between the loos/pilots and the passenger cabin, when the flight deck door is open.

Not just on US airlines. I most recently saw this on DJ when the "mobile mini-bulkhead" which was at the time located around row 5 was quickly moved back to block the area with one FA standing behind it while the other entered the coughpit. Pretty sure I've seen it once or twice on QF but not nearly so obvious.

Richard.

 

[medhead]

So if there’s 4 Air Marshalls on board, armed, why couldn’t they mostly be at the back, or not more than 1 at the front? After all, they’re armed, it’s not hard to walk up the cabin and take the bad guys out?

The issue is less that they’re not worth it, but more that they don’t all need to be at the front, after all, they’re armed, the terrorists more than likely wont be.

Not hard to walk up the cabin and take them out?
You've been watching to much 24 or other BS movies/TV.

 

[harvyk]

after all, they’re armed, the terrorists more than likely wont be.

And you think the terrorists won't be armed? Maybe not with guns (unless they are really good at getting things through airport security) but they will more than likely have a weapon of some sorts...

Remember that both sides have the element of surprise. An air marshall will most likely determine when in the best time to attack. Most likely it would be just after a terrorist has walked past their seat. (thus the need for up front placement) as a terrorist would more than likely go for the coughpit.

Running head on into a situation makes for good TV, but in real life it's how people would die.

 

[samh004]

Not hard to walk up the cabin and take them out?
You've been watching to much 24 or other BS movies/TV.

I don’t watch 24. Not my thing. Incredibly boring TV.

And you think the terrorists won't be armed? Maybe not with guns (unless they are really good at getting things through airport security) but they will more than likely have a weapon of some sorts...

Remember that both sides have the element of surprise. An air marshall will most likely determine when in the best time to attack. Most likely it would be just after a terrorist has walked past their seat. (thus the need for up front placement) as a terrorist would more than likely go for the coughpit.

Running head on into a situation makes for good TV, but in real life it's how people would die.

I guess, being at the front and seeing it happen and being at the back and not seeing it happen can make a difference, but I still don’t believe the whole special forces squad should be at the front of the plane.

 

[serfty]

...

Of course this is correct but you are missing the point. You are dealing with humans and everyone has a week spot. You are assuming that in the heat of the moment that everything goes 'by the book' with perfect judgment and full knowledge of the situation. I'm sorry but in disasters it almost never occurs in this way, I have helped test DR hypotheticals and it's the first thing they teach you. Hindsight of course has perfect vision.. ...

I guess there may be a way, but it would be tough.

See the following quote of a post from this thread written by a Qantas Mainline Pilot (who is a member of this forum); recently transferred from 744 to 388:

Don't think so. Any pilot who allows entry is simply dead. I can't see too many choosing this as a viable option.

I guess pilots these days are very will educated with the hindsight of 9/11.

 

[Flashback]

For a very timely TV series premiere if/when it is on in Australia, be sure to watch "The Event".

The Event (TV Series 2010) - IMDb
The Event - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[JeniSkunk]

For a very timely TV series premiere if/when it is on in Australia, be sure to watch "The Event".

How is that bland new trashyvision series releveant to this thread?

Jenifur Charne

 

[Flashback]

If you've seen the episode in question. I won't say what happens in case there are others who haven't watched yet and want to find out for themselves.

 

[blueflamenco]

^^ I like it.

 

[straitman]

For a very timely TV series premiere if/when it is on in Australia, be sure to watch "The Event".

The Event (TV Series 2010) - IMDb
The Event - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Flashware,

We have had three episodes of the show thus far. Not sure if it's good or bad yet.

 

[Flashback]

Flashware,

We have had three episodes of the show thus far. Not sure if it's good or bad yet.

So for once not too far behind . You agree though that the beginning of the first episode is very relevant to this thread though?

 

[straitman]

Another 'news' article from USA Today.

Airlines seek to move air marshals from first class.

By Alan Levin, USA TODAY
Airlines are asking the Federal Air Marshals Service to relax its policy of often seating undercover agents in first class because they say it has become a costly disruption that isn't justified by current security threats.

The Air Transport Association, the Washington trade group representing large carriers, and several airline CEOs recently appealed to Transportation Security Administration head John Pistole and his marshals service counterpart, Robert Bray, to move marshals to seats farther back in planes.

By going public with their concerns, the airlines shined a rare light on the behind-the-scenes tensions that sometimes arise in the secretive force that protects against terrorism in the skies. The disclosure prompted a harsh backlash from a group that represents marshals.