Asiana 777 hull loss at SFO

[oz_mark]

I take hindering emergency evacuation to lead to those things.

It's clear what is being implied.

Equally, I think your implication that hampering an evacuation has no consequences is a poor one.

 

[samh004]

Equally, I think your implication that hampering an evacuation has no consequences is a poor one.

That wasn't my implication.

I'm simply getting rid of the rampant speculation and lynching that happens so often here.

But sure, be blind to what's going on. This is why I don't come on here much anymore, the attacks, the community is awful. I'm not at the point I want to start afresh somewhere else, but considering the core attacking members have a home at the alternative, probably not much point.

If I was in an evacuation, I'd be putting others ahead of myself, at least in my mind, as I've never been in one. I wouldn't see the need to take my bag with me, and I'm not suggesting anyone should. I just don't agree that those who have in this incident should be prematurely hung, drawn and quartered, as they are being by a few members here. There's nothing to suggest that they hindered anyone. Yes, they shouldn't have taken their belongings with them, but implying they hindered something, with currently no evidence of that, that's pretty low. Who knows, some of those with belongings may have helped others out, and that's not to say they couldn't have done that without their bags, but you don't know that, I don't know that, and painting them as the devil incarnate despite their heroic actions helping others out isn't very nice.

See what I did there, wild speculation, just in the completely opposite direction.

Perhaps this thread should get back on topic.

 

[Foreigner]

My thoughts, foremost, concern the well being of the passengers and crew of this flight. Second, I'm wondering the challenges faced by US Immigration, in clearing these people who may not have their passports of other ID's on their person.

 

[oz74]

That wasn't my implication.

I'm simply getting rid of the rampant speculation and lynching that happens so often here.

But sure, be blind to what's going on. This is why I don't come on here much anymore, the attacks, the community is awful. I'm not at the point I want to start afresh somewhere else, but considering the core attacking members have a home at the alternative, probably not much point.

If I was in an evacuation, I'd be putting others ahead of myself, at least in my mind, as I've never been in one. I wouldn't see the need to take my bag with me, and I'm not suggesting anyone should. I just don't agree that those who have in this incident should be prematurely hung, drawn and quartered, as they are being by a few members here. There's nothing to suggest that they hindered anyone. Yes, they shouldn't have taken their belongings with them, but implying they hindered something, with currently no evidence of that, that's pretty low. Who knows, some of those with belongings may have helped others out, and that's not to say they couldn't have done that without their bags, but you don't know that, I don't know that, and painting them as the devil incarnate despite their heroic actions helping others out isn't very nice.

See what I did there, wild speculation, just in the completely opposite direction.

Perhaps this thread should get back on topic.

Or you could just admit you said something silly and got picked up on it lol

 

[Ansett]

Hi all can we get back on topic lets not lose sight that 2 people have been confirmed dead with atleast 10 others in a critical condition.

Lets just hope that none of us on this forum or those close to us are NEVER in a similiar situation as those on this flight.

Thank you

 

[Melburnian1]

This report has been updated at various times but has some inconsistencies in the number of passengers who are alleged to have been seriously injured (i.e. not 'critical').

I assume that the picture will become clearer later this afternoon AEST:

Plane Crash At San Francisco International Airport

 

[GalaxyNexus]

There have been plenty of incidents previously where the selfish actions of passengers has caused death or injury to others in similar circumstances, there should be zero tolerance to repeated incidents that have the same potential, ZERO.

People tend to become irrational on emergency / panic situations. I would suggest a different, more mechanical solution to this problem: make the overhead bin automatically lock on impact (or something) so people can't take out the carry-on even if they want to.

-GN

 

[samh004]

People tend to become irrational on emergency / panic situations. I would suggest a different, more mechanical solution to this problem: make the overhead bin automatically lock on impact (or something) so people can't take out the carry-on even if they want to.

-GN

That's a pretty good idea. Might also stop those who are early to get out of their seat on landing to retrieve their belongings if they know they can't get into the locker until the seatbelt sign is off etc. Though wouldn't stop retrieval from under the seat.

Edit: was thinking about it further and would imagine whatever mechanism could lock the locker wouldn't have survived the impact considering tail, engines and gear didn't.

 

[UP4014]

That wasn't my implication.

I'm simply getting rid of the rampant speculation and lynching that happens so often here.

But sure, be blind to what's going on. This is why I don't come on here much anymore, the attacks, the community is awful. I'm not at the point I want to start afresh somewhere else, but considering the core attacking members have a home at the alternative, probably not much point.

See what I did there, wild speculation, just in the completely opposite direction

Perhaps this thread should get back on topic.

Rampant speculation? There was death and injury, there were people taking their bags off the plane, those people by their very actions must have slowed others unless you think passengers can take theirs bags and not slow anyone?

There needs to be consequences for those who did, they survived others did not they should be grateful for that and not be selfish about luggage at any risk of delay to others.

Considering the what happened raising the issue of taking bags is a valid issue.

Matt

 

[samh004]

There needs to be consequences for those who did, they survived others did not they should be grateful for that and not be selfish about luggage at any risk of delay to others.

And you can prove beyond certainty of a doubt that those who took bags were the cause of those who didn't make it out? Guess that's settled then. Seeing as you know that you may want to also give us the cause of the crash, seeing as you know so much about it. No speculation in what you say whatsoever.

Perhaps this should be its own thread, not to detract from the actual crash reporting.

 

[Noob]

You can only imagine what the families and staff are going through right now.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

http://wandr.me/Audio/AAR214-KSFO-Crash.mp3

 

[serfty]

And you can prove beyond certainty of a doubt that those who took bags were the cause of those who didn't make it out? Guess that's settled then. Seeing as you know that you may want to also give us the cause of the crash, seeing as you know so much about it. No speculation in what you say whatsoever.

There is simply insufficient information available at the moment to indicate in this instance that people taking bags with them did or did not cause additional harm, injury or death to others.

However, there have been events in the past where (further) injury/death has been directly related to the action of PAX attempting to take belongings with them during an emergency egress, one cause being the delaying of rapid exit of the aircraft. Therefore the rule is: do not take anything with you during an emergency evacuation - no ifs, no buts.

Look at the remains of the aircraft in this case, see how much has burnt out - I would not want to waste any time in getting out and being delayed by some nob who thinks they are above the rules would not be good.

 

[mannej]

And you can prove beyond certainty of a doubt that those who took bags were the cause of those who didn't make it out? Guess that's settled then. Seeing as you know that you may want to also give us the cause of the crash, seeing as you know so much about it. No speculation in what you say whatsoever.

Sam,
I am not trying to argue, but history has showed that confusion and panic during evacuation in accidents like this has caused a large number of fatalities.
To say you are playing devils advocate goes against much literature and scientific proof.
To say that because only 2 people died in this accident shows that it isn't too dangerous to get hand luggage is false logic. The speed and intensity of the fire onboard is an uncontrolled variable which can have devastating consequences.
Safest thing is to get out ASAP and minimise any delays. Like I have said there are multiple experiences where.a delayed exit or obstructions have led to a high number of fatalities of passengers who survived the initial impact.

 

[samh004]

To say that because only 2 people died in this accident shows that it isn't too dangerous to get hand luggage is false logic.

I don't believe I was saying that. If it reads as that, apologies.

I'm not trying to argue either, I just get the impression that people are arguing against me, and I'm not taking cough from people just for a differing view point.

From what I've read the victims were found outside the plane, I would assume flung from the hole at the tail. I had initially thought they may have been crew, but it doesn't say.

Perhaps another talking point is the photos on social media immediately after the crash would suggest to me devices weren't off.

 

[Rallo]

There have been plenty of incidents previously where the selfish actions of passengers has caused death or injury to others in similar circumstances, there should be zero tolerance to repeated incidents that have the same potential, ZERO.

And how many people on here have gone through the same experience,unless you have then you cannot really be critical of actions of pax during a terrible event such as this.

 

[The Rok]

As far as in concerned the airline will pay for any lost luggage not retrieved after the accident so I wouldn't bother trying to grab anything before exiting except for the person I'm travelling with.

I agree, those grabbing luggage should at the very minimum be named and shamed in the media. If a plane I were travelling on crashed and I were being impeded by someone grabbing luggage or personal belongings I would probably skull drag them out of the plane and throw their belongings back.

You have no right to risk my life so you can grab your iPad.

 

[markis10]

And how many people on here have gone through the same experience,unless you have then you cannot really be critical of actions of pax during a terrible event such as this.

Lessons learned from previous events are invaluable, having been a part of quite a few aviation incidents I can assure you that you don't need to be on the ground or in the plane to be affected, its somewhat humanising to be the last person the deceased spoke to, I have been in that position more than once as a professional aviation person, first responder (helitack) and SARMC.

 

[Happy Trails]

It seems to be a common occurrence with evacuations amongst certain Asian carriers (google the CX emergency landing in HKG for evidence)

And with just a little more googling you'll find it's common enough among non-Asian carriers too.

 

[Rallo]

Lessons learned from previous events are invaluable, having been a part of quite a few aviation incidents I can assure you that you don't need to be on the ground or in the plane to be affected, its somewhat humanising to be the last person the deceased spoke to, I have been in that position more than once as a professional aviation person, first responder (helitack) and SARMC.

Understand and appreciate your experience in the industry ,I think people in general are too quick to offer criticism in hindsight.