Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

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RooFlyer said:
TBH I haven't been following the latest outbreaks in Victoria or NSW closely - they are not that relevant to me and fortunately I've got lots of other, useful distractions. Certainly this thread has ceased to be very informative, with all the tit-for-tat type postings.

So a question, inviting speculation. :) . These 'fleeting' transmissions, in NSW and Victoria. What are the chances - could it be, on what is known - that the transmission occurred OTHER than at that particular fleeting instance? Unless the authorities have GPS tracking on all the relevant people's total movements (and, perhaps all the unknown relevant people) OR those involved (and perhaps not yet involved) can recount with 100% accuracy their movements relative to each other for their respective infectious periods, can some more direct transmission routes be ruled out?

Genuine question, for those who have followed the 'evidence' closely. I'm thinking: OK, the authorities can spot 2 people brushing past each other. In the absence of other info they say "Ah ha! - There's the transmission point!" But how likely is it that there are other transmission events, perhaps involving unknown carriers, not appreciated? There is no way I could recall my movements within, say 10 minutes and within, say, 10 metres for the past 3-5 days. And I could be an asymptomatic carrier at any time.

I wonder if there is a happiness with the authorities to seize upon the 'fleeting contact' hypothesis, to keep the fear factor up and the community generally compliant?
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But the 'fleeting contact' situation makes the authorities less able to stoke community fears. If there was said to have been no 'fleeting contact transmission' then there 'must' be more unknown cases circulating in the community who infected these people. So more measures could be introduced on that basis. What the government has said actually shows a narrowed risk of infection rather than a greater one as there is only a risk to certain people who have been somewhere at a certain time rather than everyone. Therefore the fear factor overall should have been reduced by these statements rather than increased.
 
OZDUCK said:
But the 'fleeting contact' situation makes the authorities less able to stoke community fears. If there was said to have been no 'fleeting contact transmission' then there 'must' be more unknown cases circulating in the community who infected these people. So more measures could be introduced on that basis. What the government has said actually shows a narrowed risk of infection rather than a greater one as there is only a risk to certain people who have been somewhere at a certain time rather than everyone. Therefore the fear factor overall should have been reduced by these statements rather than increased.
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Your suggestion makes logical sense, but not emotional sense. Stranger danger, a fleeting pass by a fellow shopper, feeds into basic community fear.
 
OZDUCK said:
But the 'fleeting contact' situation makes the authorities less able to stoke community fears. If there was said to have been no 'fleeting contact transmission' then there 'must' be more unknown cases circulating in the community who infected these people. So more measures could be introduced on that basis. What the government has said actually shows a narrowed risk of infection rather than a greater one as there is only a risk to certain people who have been somewhere at a certain time rather than everyone. Therefore the fear factor overall should have been reduced by these statements rather than increased.
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If there is fleeting contact transmission, then wouldn’t the hypothetical list include non-venues such as walking on a path.

Contact tracing seems to be mainly focused on venues/public transport routes. If transmission could occur from fleeting contact, could it not also occur say walking on the street between venues A and B or going from work to a park for lunch or going on a random jog for exercise.
 
It surprises me that there has not been a focus on the hand dryers in toilets - Westfield is full of them. Just takes a person with virus on the hands who doesn't wash carefully to aerosolise it (particularly the top of the range Dyson dryers that practically hammer your hands against the sides)!

Yes I know, left field but not covered by CCTV. :)

And no, I don't personally propose it as a an answer to mystery cases, but can't believe no one has raised it given all the discussion of minutiae in this thread.
 
OATEK said:
It surprises me that there has not been a focus on the hand dryers in toilets - Westfield is full of them. Just takes a person with virus on the hands who doesn't wash carefully to aerosolise it (particularly the top of the range Dyson dryers that practically hammer your hands against the sides)!

Yes I know, left field but not covered by CCTV. :)

And no, I don't personally propose it as a an answer to mystery cases, but can't believe no one has raised it given all the discussion of minutiae in this thread.
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I never use these things. Paper towel only and avoid air space from others. Obviously not going to 100% avoidable. Some now have built in ultra violet light to zap ‘stuff’.
 
jase05 said:
Sounds like a Emirates crew member who was only out for 1 day and had good QR compliance
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Speaking of which I also saw a tweet saying QR check in at retail will be mandatory in Qld from Friday.
 
jase05 said:
Sounds like a Emirates crew member who was only out for 1 day and had good QR compliance
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Lots of fleeting transmission references from our intelligent QLD CHO though so it’s very worrisome ;) Tassie will probably lock us out.... I might have to pull a flight forward.
 
OATEK said:
It surprises me that there has not been a focus on the hand dryers in toilets - Westfield is full of them. Just takes a person with virus on the hands who doesn't wash carefully to aerosolise it (particularly the top of the range Dyson dryers that practically hammer your hands against the sides)!

Yes I know, left field but not covered by CCTV. :)

And no, I don't personally propose it as a an answer to mystery cases, but can't believe no one has raised it given all the discussion of minutiae in this thread.
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Just on toilets and air dryers. This topic has been raised from time to time on the forum since the pandemic started.


However just quickly:

Toilets do get listed as exposure sites from time to time. So they are a known risk area just as any room is a risk area and would be part of the questions asked by contact tracers on sites visited. Though toilets on planes at least have the air drawn out of them.

ie In the current Vic Outbreak you can see Toilets listed..

1624150892639.png

1624150962681.png

There has also been discussion/ technical papers on some the rare in flight transmission that the toilet may have been a transmission site.


CCTV and Toilets: Yes no footage inside. However at shopping centres (as well as other public locations) public toilets are a risk area for sexual assault and so the corridor approaching a toilet will normally have CCTV coverage and so can be used to check ingress and engress of a toilet. In planning CCTV coverage a number of factors go into deciding what areas to cover. At shopping centres, theft is but one factor.



Air dryers:

While views vary, the consensus is that wet (undried) hands are a bigger risk than the method of drying the hands.


7 reasons that support the use of electric hand dryers in times of Covid-19

The World Health Organization (WHO), recommends that washed hands are thoroughly and completely dried with the use of an electric hand dryer or with paper towels.
www.mediclinics.com www.mediclinics.com




COVID-19 Infection prevention and control guidelines​
18 June 2021​
OFFICIAL​

4.3.1.2 Hand-drying methods​

Common hand-drying methods include paper towels, cloth towels (reusing or sharing towels should be avoided because of the risk of cross-infection) and air dryers (warm air dryers and jet air dryers).​
​
Microorganisms spread more easily when hands are wet, so it is important to dry hands completely, whatever the method used.​
​
Research has shown that in a healthcare environment, drying hands with paper towels may provide a superior infection control result than warm air or jet air dryers. However, warm air dryers may be considered in non-clinical areas, such as public toilets.​
​
Frequently touched areas of the hand dryers (that is, buttons to activate the drying mechanism of the hand dryer) and the entire body of the dryer should be cleaned regularly.​


I highlight the last the point above on touchpoints (High Touch Point Cleaning Protocols is part of the advice and training that I have facilitated to public sector building managers and owners for over a decade including clients Hospitals, Aged Care, Local Government, NSW Health, VicDHHS and the like ). And also note that this is not just for Covid 19, as equally this applies to bacteria spread and transmission from touchpoints and poor hand hygiene is a key contributor to health issues like gastro.

Also note that toilet flushing can aerosolise the virus, as well as other harmful bacteria. Unfortunately public toilets normally do not have lids, but if you have a lid on your toilet at home you should lower your lid before flushing. In ensuites testing has proven that flushing the toilet will lead to bacteria being deposited within the ensuite and yes on your tooth brush!
 
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2 new cases

More LGA’s under tighter restrictions including compulsory mask wearing indoors.

I wonder if the other states will lock the new LGA’s out too.
 
jakeseven7 said:
2 new cases
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Two locally acquired cases were recorded in the 24 hours to 8pm last night, one of which was a man in his 30s who was announced yesterday morning. The other case is a household contact of his who was already isolating as a close contact.

Some new restrictions:

If you are in a public indoor venue and not eating or drinking, you need to wear a mask in these LGAs: Randwick, Bayside, Canada Bay, Inner West, City of Sydney, Waverley and Woollahra

These activities include,retail, theatres, aged care facilities and for front-of-house hospitality staff.
 
After visiting Tasmania and Queensland I can't believe you don't have to QR code in everywhere like we do in SA. It's not onerous and if it saves one transmission then it's done its job
 
WA moves to Phase 5 on Wednesday

Phase 5 will result in:
  • The removal of the two square metre rule.
  • The removal of the 75 per cent capacity limit for hospitality and entertainment venues.
  • Major events of all kinds resuming with no limits on size or crowds.
The following remain in place to continue keeping WA safe:
  • Mandatory contact registers
  • COVID Safety Plans for businesses
  • COVID Event Plans for large-scale events
  • WA’s controlled border
  • Travel restrictions to some remote Aboriginal communities.
www.wa.gov.au

Western Australia to transition to Phase 5 of the COVID-19 roadmap

All remaining capacity and gathering limits for venues and events will be removed in WA from 12.01am, Wednesday 23 June.
www.wa.gov.au www.wa.gov.au
 
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