Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

[dajop]

So already 13 Victorians who need to be locked up as not home when police visited.

"13 people who were meant to be self-isolating at home weren't there when police knocked on 174 doors yesterday.
One fine issued so far - other 12 having their excuses checked. "

ATO hunts coronavirus fraudsters

Fraudsters taking advantage of coronavirus stimulus measures have been put on notice as tax time comes closer.

www.news.com.au

One of the disadvantages of being a liberal democracy. In benevolent dictatorships (eg Singapore) prison sentences are handed down for such crimes, whilst in communist controlled countries, who knows what punishment belies the recalcitrant parties. In Australia a slap on the wrist.

 

[SydneySwan]

One fine issued so far - other 12 having their excuses checked.

So what is a valid excuse? I am sure COVID is laughing about this concept of exemptions and excuses.

 

[antycbr]

So what is a valid excuse? I am sure COVID is laughing about this concept of exemptions and excuses.

The challenge with a draconian quarantine system is that it discourages people from being tested in the first place. We don’t have mandatory testing so there has to be a balance.

 

[drron]

The challenge with a draconian quarantine system is that it discourages people from being tested in the first place. We don’t have mandatory testing so there has to be a balance.

However under the Public health emergency laws we can close State borders,close businesses down and have compulsory quarantine so I am sure you can have mandatory testing and indeed it is already done in SA and I presume in other states during the compulsory hotel quarantine.It is also done for contacts of positive cases.

 

[jakeseven7]

So what is a valid excuse? I am sure COVID is laughing about this concept of exemptions and excuses.

COVID isn't really alive, it can't laugh.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

For people who have been found to lie such as the fruit picker who went to QLD a big fine is in order.

And if his housemate (the infected security guard) had been honest the fruit picker would never have flown.

The dishonesty and self-interest of the few, has been one of the worsts aspects of the pandemic in Australia.

It is a special type of a-hole who still mixes with people, or facilitates it, when they know that they may/are be infected.

The Aspen couple who avoided testing so that their holiday would not be interrupted is unfortunately not a rare type of person.

Such behaviour has also been exhibited by those who avoid being tested.


It is the above that are at the heart of the current spike in Victoria.

 

[antycbr]

However under the Public health emergency laws we can close State borders,close businesses down and have compulsory quarantine so I am sure you can have mandatory testing and indeed it is already done in SA and I presume in other states during the compulsory hotel quarantine.It is also done for contacts of positive cases.

However those are not how you’ll find community transmission which relies on people volunteering to be tested. People in hotel quarantine know what they are up for prior to departing their port of origin. I agree that the laws have sweeping powers but unless we are saying we are doing mandatory testing and compelling people to come forward, the consequences need to be positive for people, not negative to keep them coming forward particularly for mild cases. Anyone interacting with hospitals should be mandatory.

I think positive cases should be strongly encouraged to go to a suitable hotel facility (crown promenade or similar perhaps - luxe) and given like Jury Service leave as part of doing their civic duty.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

However those are not how you’ll find community transmission which relies on people volunteering to be tested. People in hotel quarantine know what they are up for prior to departing their port of origin. I agree that the laws have sweeping powers but unless we are saying we are doing mandatory testing and compelling people to come forward, the consequences need to be positive for people, not negative to keep them coming forward particularly for mild cases. Anyone interacting with hospitals should be mandatory.

I think positive cases should be strongly encouraged to go to a suitable hotel facility (crown promenade or similar perhaps - luxe) and given like Jury Service leave as part of doing their civic duty.

Essentially agree, but in Victoria at least Jury Service Leave and payment can be a joke. So yes some type of remuneration.

Plus evidently some of the current spreaders have been in work with no sickleave. Hence why the $1500 is now to be paid to those that do not have access to sickleave.

 

[antycbr]

Essentially agree, but in Victoria at least Jury Service Leave and payment can be a joke. So yes some type of remuneration.

Plus evidently some of the current spreaders have been in work with no sickleave. Hence why the $1500 is now to be paid to those that do not have access to sickleave.

But can’t be so attractive that people will proactively try to get it. Some people are truly crazy.

 

[jase05]

One of the disadvantages of being a liberal democracy. In benevolent dictatorships (eg Singapore) prison sentences are handed down for such crimes, whilst in communist controlled countries, who knows what punishment belies the recalcitrant parties. In Australia a slap on the wrist.

Didn’t the WA bloke that broke quarantine get 6 months in the slammer?

 

[N860CR]

The dishonesty and self-interest of the few, has been one of the worsts aspects of the pandemic in Australia.

Are they selfish? Or just trying to get by?

My personal income is down about 90% and has been since April. We’re getting by (just), but I’d have to think long and hard before taking a week off because I’m not feeling 100%. Hell... I haven’t felt 100% since March!

Yes I know in many cases here we are talking about people who know they’re infected, but those who have subsequently found out they’ve got the virus have been treated the same after the fact.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Are they selfish? Or just trying to get by?

Infecting your relatives by visiting with them is not trying to get by.

I do emphasise though with those that have no income, but mouths to feed. So I do welcome the $1500 payment for those without access to sick leave.



PS: My business income was turned off in Mid-March. I doubt it will get turned on again in any meaningful way till Octerberish. Fortunately I am 59 have no debts and have ample cash and investments (though I suspect those share dividends will plammet for the next 6 to 12 months)..

 

[drron]

However those are not how you’ll find community transmission which relies on people volunteering to be tested. People in hotel quarantine know what they are up for prior to departing their port of origin. I agree that the laws have sweeping powers but unless we are saying we are doing mandatory testing and compelling people to come forward, the consequences need to be positive for people, not negative to keep them coming forward particularly for mild cases. Anyone interacting with hospitals should be mandatory.

I think positive cases should be strongly encouraged to go to a suitable hotel facility (crown promenade or similar perhaps - luxe) and given like Jury Service leave as part of doing their civic duty.

Hotel quarantine for all positive cases would be expensive.For mild or asymptomatic cases picked up on contact tracing home isolation is fine.it just needs better policing.For those that are found to have violated the agreement the punishment certainly shouldn't be a slap on the risk.A big fine and if caught lying then a jail time or mandatory hotel quarantine that the offender pays for.the message would soon get around.

 

[N860CR]

So I do welcome the $1500 payment for those without access to sick leave.

I haven’t had a good look into this, but does this include people who are taking the day off because they’re “not feeling 100%” (per governments instruction)?

Not trying to be difficult, and I appreciate many of these people did the wrong thing (I used my example poorly), but it’s very easy for people who have their lives setup and limited debts to pay to say “why didn’t they just stay home!”.

 

[antycbr]

Hotel quarantine for all positive cases would be expensive.For mild or asymptomatic cases picked up on contact tracing home isolation is fine.it just needs better policing.For those that are found to have violated the agreement the punishment certainly shouldn't be a slap on the risk.A big fine and if caught lying then a jail time or mandatory hotel quarantine that the offender pays for.the message would soon get around.

Not that expensive compared to the cost of a lockdown. The hotels are still largely empty with no business travel. We are paying for it for international people who may be positive I don’t see it a stretch to pay it for domestic cases who are actually positive.

It stops positive cases from the casual popping out to the shops, people visiting and family in home transmission.

All of the active non international quarantine (ie local transmission) cases in Vic would fit in a decent sized CBD hotel.

And the absolute last place we want to send positive cases is jail.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

I haven’t had a good look into this, but does this include people who are taking the day off because they’re “not feeling 100%” (per governments instruction)?

Not trying to be difficult, and I appreciate many of these people did the wrong thing (I used my example poorly), but it’s very easy for people who have their lives setup and limited debts to pay to say “why didn’t they just stay home!”.

They have to test positive for CV19.

It is aimed at trying to minimise the reduction in income barrier that some without access to sickleave may see as a huge problem.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Self-isolation has been known to be an issue since it was first used, and in all states.

Policing of it has been haphazard from what one can read, and one gains the string vibe in Vic had dissipated.

And policing of it does not have to be just police. One has to ask why the "army of door knockers" was not deployed a month ago. We would only have needed a platoon back then.


I think the Vic Government has been complacent in assuming everyone would toe the line and that it was just going to happen in having the cases flatline or disappear and while this was ok for the majority who were doing the right thing, it has been disastrous with the minority who have not been as motivated/dedicated/diligent/careful. This allowed community transmission to keep bubbling along, and then when families also then became more relaxed overall cases to multiply as most cases seem to be in clusters at present.

 

[Pushka]

I think that all Governments under estimated the impact of the tacit or actual, consent given to the Demonstrations. The concern was for the social distancing at the time and any positives that may arise from those demonstrating. Rightly so.

However, they completely ignored the poor message that was sending to the widespread community who had been likely following the limitations. Expressing ones democratic right was deemed more important than the emergency measures put in place even at the height of the pandemic.

 

[drron]

Not that expensive compared to the cost of a lockdown. The hotels are still largely empty with no business travel. We are paying for it for international people who may be positive I don’t see it a stretch to pay it for domestic cases who are actually positive.

It stops positive cases from the casual popping out to the shops, people visiting and family in home transmission.

All of the active non international quarantine (ie local transmission) cases in Vic would fit in a decent sized CBD hotel.

And the absolute last place we want to send positive cases is jail.

I'm with you on the idea that properly enforcing self isolation/quarantine now is more sensible than going back into lockdown as even in Victoria the numbers are manageable.I'm also impressed again by the SA Health Dept (but not their Premier) in sending more contact tracers to Victoria to help out.We are starting to act as one country again.
Although we are now paying for the hotel quarantine of returning Australians that is not the case for the NT and QLD has announced that returning travellers will be paying from July 1.

Queensland introduces charges for overseas travellers

Queensland will start charging returned overseas travellers for quarantining in government arranged accommodation from July 1.

www.news.com.au

 

[dajop]

I do wonder, niggling in the back of my mind, if we’re seeing an effect of the onset of winter now in Melbourne, where people are much more likely, when they choose to congregate, to do so indoors.

Some anecdotal evidence - my partners mother lives quite close to Melbournes 3rd largest shopping centre, which we drove past on Saturday afternoon and not only was the traffic horrendous but the car park seemed full and people were parking across the road in overflow areas - normally only see this at Xmas. Surely this can’t continue? They could go onto odds and evens in the car park on weekends or something like that to keep the numbers down.