Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

[justinbrett]

Well VIC and NSW teamed up to roll the Nat Cab last night. We only need a few more to do this. Apparently Dan and Gladys still very close.

I have a lot of political differences with Dan Andrews but I'm so glad he's back, he is far more diplomatic and collegial than many in his cabinet especially Merlino. I rarely see Dan Andrews trying to make cheap political points with other state leaders and the federal government.

 

[Pushka]

Agreed, the time for a national approach is well overdue. I do have a question is why is the call for a national approach so much stronger now than it was 3 weeks ago when Melbourne was in the middle of another lockdown?

My two cents? NSW were always seen to be, rightly or wrongly, managing this extremely well. Now there is doubt.

Post automatically merged: Jun 29, 2021

I have a lot of political differences with Dan Andrews but I'm so glad he's back, he is far more diplomatic and collegial than many in his cabinet especially Merlino. I rarely see Dan Andrews trying to make cheap political points with other state leaders and the federal government.

He did towards SA though just before the Vic lockdown last year.

 

[bcworld]

He did towards SA though just before the Vic lockdown last year.

My take is that was an ill advised attempt at a joke. And it wasn't political or taking down someone else's policies. It was just a typical state vs state cheap shot.

 

[dajop]

I'll say it again, I find the article absolutely despicable

Many humans are despicable, at least a small part of the time! Doesn't mean that what's being described is not insightful.

I find the article an interesting look into human nature. It is naive to think that the conflicting thoughts he outlined are something that people don't actually wrestle with. Humans are tribal in nature, and what Victorians went through last year, and the constant battering from outside the state, only strengthened those tribal feelings (and this is probably just reinforcing something that goes back a century or more).

I was in Vic until mid-August, and it was noticeable the narrative changed from April-May "we're all in this together" to "It's Victoria's problem". People might not air these feelings, and probably Jon Faine shouldn't have. And most Victorians, 99% of the time probably think that "my sympathies are with the people of Sydney suffering through the lockdown" but it's just human/tribal nature to have a small part of you think ah "it's nice to see the boot on the other foot for a change". It's not malicous, just human nature, if the feelings weren't there, then we would be machines and not human beings. The difference between something being despicable or not is the ability to compartmentalise and not allow the despicable ones to take over.

Or maybe I'm just bad to the core for even having such thoughts. I'm glad that everyone else is so pious that these sort thoughts don't even enter their heads. Ever.

 

[dajop]

He did towards SA though just before the Vic lockdown last year.

Yes, but that's keeping it in the (AFL?) "family" right ? NSW and Queensland can heap cough on each other, Vic/SA/Tas can as well. But never the two shall mix ...

 

[bcworld]

Or maybe I'm just bad to the core for even having such thoughts. I'm glad that everyone else is so pious that these sort thoughts don't even enter their heads. Ever.

I have no malice towards anyone in Sydney or NSW. I have a massive amount of malice towards the journalists and commentators (some of them who have been upset by this Faine article) who have trolled Victoria endlessly for the past year. Some here from NSW seem to get a lot out of watching the press conferences. Imagine as a member of the Victorian public you simply had to give up watching them because of the endless amounts of absolute nonsense questioning from the pack. I'll say this for Dan Andrews...unlike Gladys, Brad and Anna he doesn't just exit stage left the second he feels he's had enough.

To add to the above, because I think I was essentially accused of being a Danbot in another thread the other day. No denials from me about the mistakes Victoria made last year, or the farce that was the hotel quarantine inquiry. But I think the dialogue can move on from here. Hopefully some people have learnt that not all outbreaks are the same, not all strains are the same and responses to them may vary.

 

[justinbrett]

Many humans are despicable, at least a small part of the time! Doesn't mean that what's being described is not insightful.

I find the article an interesting look into human nature. It is naive to think that the conflicting thoughts he outlined are something that people don't actually wrestle with. Humans are tribal in nature, and what Victorians went through last year, and the constant battering from outside the state, only strengthened those tribal feelings (and this is probably just reinforcing something that goes back a century or more).

I was in Vic until mid-August, and it was noticeable the narrative changed from April-May "we're all in this together" to "It's Victoria's problem". People might not air these feelings, and probably Jon Faine shouldn't have. And most Victorians, 99% of the time probably think that "my sympathies are with the people of Sydney suffering through the lockdown" but it's just human/tribal nature to have a small part of you think ah "it's nice to see the boot on the other foot for a change". It's not malicous, just human nature, if the feelings weren't there, then we would be machines and not human beings. The difference between something being despicable or not is the ability to compartmentalise and not allow the despicable ones to take over.

Or maybe I'm just bad to the core for even having such thoughts. I'm glad that everyone else is so pious that these sort thoughts don't even enter their heads. Ever.

They are despicable thoughts, yes. It might be insightful that people have despicable thoughts. I'm not sure anybody should be putting those thoughts to print.

The age old saying "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" is good advice.

 

[antycbr]

They are despicable thoughts, yes. It might be insightful that people have despicable thoughts. I'm not sure anybody should be putting those thoughts to print.

The age old saying "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" is good advice.

And it was The Age which printed it. *slow hand clap*

 

[justinbrett]

I have no malice towards anyone in Sydney or NSW. I have a massive amount of malice towards the journalists and commentators (some of them who have been upset by this Faine article) who have trolled Victoria endlessly for the past year. Some here from NSW seem to get a lot out of watching the press conferences. Imagine as a member of the Victorian public you simply had to give up watching them because of the endless amounts of absolute nonsense questioning from the pack. I'll say this for Dan Andrews...unlike Gladys, Brad and Anna he doesn't just exit stage left the second he feels he's had enough.

To add to the above, because I think I was essentially accused of being a Danbot in another thread the other day. No denials from me about the mistakes Victoria made last year, or the farce that was the hotel quarantine inquiry. But I think the dialogue can move on from here. Hopefully some people have learnt that not all outbreaks are the same, not all strains are the same and responses to them may vary.

I've said this in an earlier post:
YOU ARE NOT YOUR GOVERNMENT

Nobody I saw was criticising the Victorian people or wished the Victorian outbreak on them. They weren't "Trolling Victoria" - if they were trolling, it was against the Victorian Government.

This article suggested the people of Sydney/NSW deserved this. Despicable.

 

[N860CR]

My two cents? NSW were always seen to be, rightly or wrongly, managing this extremely well. Now there is doubt.

NSW have still managed this extremely well. “Hotel quarantine” and this obsession with COVID-0 simply so not go together, yet NSW has taken by far the highest volume of international arrivals and managed multiple “outbreaks” purely through contact tracing without locking down. Yes, this one has become a little larger than most would hope but it’s still far better than the countless lockdowns that would have occurred had other states been in NSWs position over the last 18 months.

Not only have the vast majority of people in Sydney lived a largely normal existence, the state has also done the most for getting Australian citizens into the country.

That’s not to say I agree with the hotel quarantine arrangements (nor arrival restrictions).

 

[Pushka]

NSW have still managed this extremely well. “Hotel quarantine” and this obsession with COVID-0 simply so not go together, yet NSW has taken by far the highest volume of international arrivals and managed multiple “outbreaks” purely through contact tracing without locking down. Yes, this one has become a little larger than most would hope but it’s still far better than the countless lockdowns that would have occurred had other states been in NSWs position over the last 18 months.

Not only have the vast majority of people in Sydney lived a largely normal existence, the state has also done the most for getting Australian citizens into the country.

That’s not to say I agree with the hotel quarantine arrangements (nor arrival restrictions).

Sure. But it's sometimes about perception not reality. For those risk averse CHO's, NSW may not have been seen to clamp down fast enough and they were making noises to say they had no plans to do that.

 

[dajop]

This article suggested the people of Sydney/NSW deserved this. Despicable.

It also suggested very real conflicting feelings. Not unreservedly that people of Sydney deserved this.

I've said this in an earlier post:
YOU ARE NOT YOUR GOVERNMENT

I suspect in democracies a lot of people do feel somewhat invested in their government, particularly when the government is not just a 51/49 type government, especially when criticism comes from outside. A bit like family. A lot easier to take criticism of the government coming from, for example, Neil Mitchell or Andrew Bolt than from, for example Alan Jones (well that might be universal rule )

 

[justinbrett]

It also suggested very real conflicting feelings. Not unreservedly that people of Sydney deserved this.


I suspect in democracies a lot of people do feel somewhat invested in their government, particularly when the government is not just a 51/49 type government, especially when criticism comes from outside. A bit like family. A lot easier to take criticism of the government coming from, for example, Neil Mitchell or Andrew Bolt than from, for example Alan Jones (well that might be universal rule )

Identifying with a party over a country is more common in non democratic countries. It's not very healthy.

 

[jakeseven7]

Well having watched the WA press conference it was *almost* as poorly strung together as QLD’s. And McGowan also stuffed up on vaccines. Seriously it’s not that hard to remember. Sigh.

 

[jakeseven7]

Splits in the ranks (again) with the deputy saying they’ve lost control and moved too late... my understanding is that this guy is a bit of an outlier...

——

Deputy Premier John Barilaro says NSW government 'lost control' of COVID-19 outbreak​

NSW Deputy Premier John Barilaro has said his government "lost control" of the latest COVID-19 outbreak and could have locked down Greater Sydney a week earlier.

Deputy Premier says NSW government 'lost control' of COVID outbreak

NSW Deputy Premier John Barilaro says his government "lost control" of the latest COVID-19 outbreak and could have locked down Greater Sydney a week earlier.

www.abc.net.au

 

[justinbrett]

Splits in the ranks (again) with the deputy saying they’ve lost control and moved too late... my understanding is that this guy is a bit of an outlier...

——

Deputy Premier John Barilaro says NSW government 'lost control' of COVID-19 outbreak​

NSW Deputy Premier John Barilaro has said his government "lost control" of the latest COVID-19 outbreak and could have locked down Greater Sydney a week earlier.

Deputy Premier says NSW government 'lost control' of COVID outbreak

NSW Deputy Premier John Barilaro says his government "lost control" of the latest COVID-19 outbreak and could have locked down Greater Sydney a week earlier.

www.abc.net.au

He's the leader of the Nationals - they are two parties unlike Queensland. He's basically the Barnaby of NSW state politics.

 

[Lynda2475]

Apparently Dan and Gladys still very close.

Not on all issues.

Gladys speaks passionately about bringing Australians home, she has not called for reducing arrivals and has ensured NSW has never stopped arrivals, Dan on the other hand currently wants to reduce arrivals by up to 80%. Rather than look to improve processes, Qld and Vic's solution is to opt out.

From ABC:

Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews has suggested reducing the number of Australians allowed to return to the country by up to 80 per cent in light of recent outbreaks.

Mr Andrews told ABC Radio Melbourne he wanted "a debate and a discussion about how many people we're letting in".

"And about how many people we're letting out, to then return home and go through that two-week quarantine," he said.

There are more than 35,000 Australians officially registered with the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade as being stranded overseas, but advocates estimate the real number is much higher.

"Yes there'd be inconvenience in less people being able to return home, of course there would be," Mr Andrews said.

He said it would be "heartbreaking in many ways", but that a reduced cap would only last until a "critical mass" of people were vaccinated.

Splits in the ranks (again) with the deputy saying they’ve lost control and moved too late... my understanding is that this guy is a bit of an outlier...

No split in the ranks, as Barilaro is a Nat, not a Liberal and like Barnaby Joyce only has the gig due to the coalition. He regularly sprouts Nats policy which conflicts with Libs, most understand he is largely irrelevant.

 

[RooFlyer]

Well VIC and NSW teamed up to roll the Nat Cab last night. We only need a few more to do this. Apparently Dan and Gladys still very close.

You keeps saying that, or intimating it. How can 2 members 'roll' the majority of others? Could it be that the NC managed to come to a consensus through its normal processes (shock! horror!).

Time for a national approach.

We have it. Thats why its called National Cabinet, set up just for responses to the pandemic. Like all Cabinets in the Westminster system, you have some participants who like the decisions and some who don't like the decisions, but when it makes a decision and all (should) stick with it.

Given this is a cabinet of differing political parties and different levels of government, I think its a miracle that its held up so well.

 

[Must...Fly!]

He said it would be "heartbreaking in many ways", but that a reduced cap would only last until a "critical mass" of people were vaccinated.

I believe AP and DA are showing a disgusting lack of humanity in their demands of caps to be slashed, both to the people who are trying to get home and to the economic realities of requiring essential workers to move in and out of the country.

Now that does not mean that a tweak to the strategy might not be a good idea. NSW continues to do the heavy lifting and I was quite disappointed at the level of vitriol being thrown at the state at work today. Short memories here in Victoria.

There is a general feeling that arrivals need to be slashed. It's funny how people who've never lived overseas just do not understand the reality of the situation. And likewise people who don't have family separated by state borders from their families. It's very distressing and the instant border closure just isolates you even more than you otherwise would be.

 

[justinbrett]

Not on all issues.

Gladys speaks passionately about bringing Australians home, she has not called for reducing arrivals and has ensured NSW has never stopped arrivals, Dan on the other hand currently wants to reduce arrivals by up to 80%. Rather than look to improve processes, Qld and Vic's solution is to opt out.

From ABC:

Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews has suggested reducing the number of Australians allowed to return to the country by up to 80 per cent in light of recent outbreaks.

Mr Andrews told ABC Radio Melbourne he wanted "a debate and a discussion about how many people we're letting in".

"And about how many people we're letting out, to then return home and go through that two-week quarantine," he said.

There are more than 35,000 Australians officially registered with the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade as being stranded overseas, but advocates estimate the real number is much higher.

"Yes there'd be inconvenience in less people being able to return home, of course there would be," Mr Andrews said.

He said it would be "heartbreaking in many ways", but that a reduced cap would only last until a "critical mass" of people were vaccinated.



No split in the ranks, as Barilaro is a Nat, not a Liberal and like Barnaby Joyce only has the gig due to the coalition. He regularly sprouts Nats policy which conflicts with Libs, most understand he is largely irrelevant.

I wish the premiers were forced to say their state residents can't return.

"We'd like to reduce the number of Australians returning home by 80%" becomes "We'd like to reduce the number of Victorians/Queenslanders home by 80%" - just to make them accountable to their electors.

But I am fiercely against this move, we should be increasing HQ spots, not decreasing. Maybe look at home quarantine for the second week.