Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

[Pushka]

I agree it was meant to be a cheeky joke that didn't land but it wasn't a shot at SA's Covid response.

Correct. Nothing to do with Covid response. But it wasn't well received here at the time, he isn't exactly the humour guy, and it did come back as a meme to torment him.

 

[justinbrett]

Their argument is you cannot fix hotel quarantine. It doesn't seem that unreasonable a position to be honest. Apparently someone looked at someone the wrong way in Bondi junction and became infected.

However I don't think its fair to do what they're proposing. But I would like to see them, as I have said before, put an end date on it and hand it back to the federal government. We shouldn't be in this position 15 months later.

That's assuming HQ is broken, which some would argue, it's not (it has risk, yes, but as we've seen, so do hospitals, so do transport workers, so do aircrew). Gladys and Kerry have no intention to reduce arrivals into NSW and that accounts for around 50% of the national cap.

I don't get the "hand it to the feds" argument. Going to be the same issue just being paid by a different jurisdiction.

 

[Pushka]

Or a case of “am I really going to call sick and get a COVID test every time I have a small sniffle”. They haven’t said what the symptoms were. For the vast majority of people, symptoms are either non-existent or incredibly mild.

It’s great for those who can WFH, but those in operational roles (like most hospital staff) it simply cannot be done.

She works in the vicinity of the Covid Ward........at the very least she should have been vaccinated. Then tested when symptoms occurred.

 

[RooFlyer]

That’s how it was told to us in our briefing to the PHN’s.... Chant and Sutton apparently had openly disagreed v the ‘consensus’ (Sutton had already publicly threatened to go rogue, perhaps Chant would have too but a little pre-occupied at the moment!) and then it snowballed and rolled into a Nat Cabinet meeting. Hunt had to intervene and call ATAGI together prior to Nat Cab to try and save face. Then they caved and put in this work around because it would have been a disaster if NSW and VIC had gone it alone... leaving the other states behind...can you even imagine... a new round of state wars, just what we all want. Anyway I’m sure most a very bored by all this, means to an end!

NSW and Vic 'going alone' (or any state)? Wow. That's never happened before has it? I mean, they are all in lock step (lock-downs) with everything to do with the pandemic? Sorry to resort to sarcasm (the wit of fools, I know ) but I think you are over dramatising the whole thing per usual putting the Feds and Hunt in particular in a bad light. Thats OK - thats your schtick. Personally, I couldn't care a rat's bottom who argued what and when. If the outcome and decision was a good one - just get on with it.

 

[justinbrett]

So are there any clues as to what worked outside the COVID-19 ward means? I mean were they just outside or?

The 19-year-old woman who was infectious in the Queensland community for 10 days before testing positive to COVID-19 has been confirmed as having the highly contagious Delta variant.​

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The woman worked outside the COVID-19 ward at Brisbane's Prince Charles Hospital and was not vaccinated.​

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She was infectious from Saturday June 19 and showed symptoms on Monday June 21, before coming forward a week later for testing.​

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She had travelled from Brisbane to Magnetic Island via Townsville in the state's north.​

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Brisbane hospital worker confirmed as having Delta strain of COVID-19

The infected woman worked as a receptionist outside the COVID-19 ward at Brisbane's Prince Charles Hospital but was infectious in the community for 10 days.

www.abc.net.au

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She is a receptionist for the covid ward

 

[Lynda2475]

Or a case of “am I really going to call sick and get a COVID test every time I have a small sniffle”. They haven’t said what the symptoms were. For the vast majority of people, symptoms are either non-existent or incredibly mild.

It’s great for those who can WFH, but those in operational roles (like most hospital staff) it simply cannot be done.

Sorry that is simply no excuse, everyone has a duty of care to stay away from work when unwell and get tested. And when you work at a facility that has a high Covid exposure risk, you need to be even more diligent.

 

[dajop]

I'm having this barney discussion on FB right now. Ban the international flights they say! And to which I explain that means no more Pfizer and other important imported supplies. Well, make the crew fly straight back then. To which others are replying that would mean a plane flying over Australia with sleep deprived crew. Well produce the vaccines onshore. To which I reply, sure, when that can happen in 9 months time Australia would be cactus

People don't think any more do they? They just react.

 

[Must...Fly!]

Or a case of “am I really going to call sick and get a COVID test every time I have a small sniffle”. They haven’t said what the symptoms were. For the vast majority of people, symptoms are either non-existent or incredibly mild.

It’s great for those who can WFH, but those in operational roles (like most hospital staff) it simply cannot be done.

I am sympathetic to this view, however working in or in very close proximity to a COVID ward should mean your bar for tolerating symptoms and obtaining a test if any are present is very very very low.

No doubt the QLD government would (& have) blamed the federal government for casual staff in quarantine hotels.

Can't blame anyone but themselves for casual staff in a COVID ward.

 

[bcworld]

That's assuming HQ is broken, which some would argue, it's not (it has risk, yes, but as we've seen, so do hospitals, so do transport workers, so do aircrew). Gladys and Kerry have no intention to reduce arrivals into NSW and that accounts for around 50% of the national cap.

I don't get the "hand it to the feds" argument. Going to be the same issue just being paid by a different jurisdiction.

Gladys and Kerry have shown they are less risk averse than others. That's a matter for them.

Quarantine is a federal responsibility that states agreed to take on for whatever reason. Now they should stop if they choose. If you don't want states setting the caps let the feds manage it. They'll probably miraculously come up with better facilities if its on them too. HQ has about a 1% failure rate for positive cases...ordinarily that would be fine but its not the world we live in.

 

[justinbrett]

It’s great for those who can WFH, but those in operational roles (like most hospital staff) it simply cannot be done.

She managed a nice little Tour de Queensland on leave though whilst having symptoms... (glossing over the fact you make a health declaration every time you fly)

 

[N860CR]

She managed a nice little Tour de Queensland on leave though whilst having symptoms... (glossing over the fact you make a health declaration every time you fly)

Do we know what the symptoms were? This is a big part of the problem. The virus is so mild that something like 80% of people either don’t know they’ve got it or have symptoms so insignificant they don’t realise. If it’s a case of just “feeling a little run down” then count me out every Thursday/Friday of a big week (and then Saturday and Sunday mornings).

Add the casual employee issue and the fact that it’s not easy for lower level staff to call in sick due to certain pressures (contrary to how it should be) and it’s very unreasonable to throw an individual under the bus.

 

[justinbrett]

Gladys and Kerry have shown they are less risk averse than others. That's a matter for them.

Quarantine is a federal responsibility that states agreed to take on for whatever reason. Now they should stop if they choose. If you don't want states setting the caps let the feds manage it. They'll probably miraculously come up with better facilities if its on them too. HQ has about a 1% failure rate for positive cases...ordinarily that would be fine but its not the world we live in.

If you have an alternative to HQ, I think the world would love to know so we can stop this pandemic (that doesn't have a 9-12 month lead time).

We both know if states reduce their caps (as much as 80% like QLD/VIC have suggested) - people won't be coming home. The federal government doesn't hold a magic wand to fix the problem, and you know it.

Perhaps all the other states can stop and leave it to NSW. Priority given to NSW residents though - the rest will have to go on a waiting list to come back through Howard Springs, and later the new VIC/QLD facilities. The capacity of those facilities is significantly lower than the current capacity.

 

[MooTime]

Gladys and Kerry have shown they are less risk averse than others. That's a matter for them.

Quarantine is a federal responsibility that states agreed to take on for whatever reason. Now they should stop if they choose. If you don't want states setting the caps let the feds manage it. They'll probably miraculously come up with better facilities if its on them too. HQ has about a 1% failure rate for positive cases...ordinarily that would be fine but its not the world we live in.

Exactly the states agreed on HQ from from day 1. If they didn't they wouldn't be doing it.
They just recently been blaming the feds, as it's not working as well as they'd hoped & can't keep to the covid zero approach.
It's a federal responsibility, yeah blah blah, weren't saying that back in 2020 were they.
We just need to transition the switch now.

States have to accept they said yes to the deal.

Amazing, well not really that nobody, absolutely nobody in the political world takes responsibility for anything. No wonder nobody trusts the pollies.

Also anybody that thinks fed based facilities, eg Howard Springs won't have leaks is only fooling themselves. Vic claiming to run it themselves I read (just pay for it feds), my goodness, I'm sure many will have faith in that facility.

Maybe Howard S hasn't yet had leaks, but as sure as the sun comes up, covid leaks, no matter how tight the zip is!

 

[dajop]

If you have an alternative to HQ, I think the world would love to know so we can stop this pandemic (that doesn't have a 9-12 month lead time).

We both know if states reduce their caps (as much as 80% like QLD/VIC have suggested) - people won't be coming home. The federal government doesn't hold a magic wand to fix the problem, and you know it.

Perhaps all the other states can stop and leave it to NSW. Priority given to NSW residents though - the rest will have to go on a waiting list to come back through Howard Springs, and later the new VIC/QLD facilities. The capacity of those facilities is significantly lower than the current capacity.

I can't help but think there are other options that should be on the table. Such as using Howard Springs exclusively for unvaccinated travellers (and later Vic/Qld facilities), and keeping HQ for those who have been vaccinated (this might need some support, for countries where difficult to get vaccine).

There seems to be increasing evidence that the vaccinated are less infectious (see below), so
1) You have a negative test of someone who is vaccinated.
2) They are less likely to get it during transit/last few days before departure.
3) If they do get it they are less likely to pass it on
4) The people they are likely to pass it on to (other HQ inmates and the staff) are also all vaccinated thus less likely to get it HQ from someone who is less likely to transmit it...

The risk seems to go much lower this way. Or am I missing something?

newsGP - Mounting evidence suggests COVID vaccines do reduce transmission

Since vaccines began rolling out across the world, many scientists have been hesitant to say they can reduce transmission of the virus.

www1.racgp.org.au

 

[N860CR]

I can't help but think there are other options that should be on the table. Such as using Howard Springs exclusively for unvaccinated travellers (and later Vic/Qld facilities), and keeping HQ for those who have been vaccinated (this might need some support, for countries where difficult to get vaccine).

Very good idea. The logistics of getting only the unvaccinated folk to Howard Springs could be problematic. Do you turn away vaccinated people from boarding repatriation flights?

For it to work, there would need to be a pretty big increase in commercial service caps so that those wanting to get repat flights aren’t left behind. It’s not reasonable for a vaccinated traveler to have to pay for a business or first QR fare whereas the unvaccinated folk score the cheaper QF charters.

In all honesty, why don’t we just start vaccinating Australia’s via our overseas facilities as a priority?

 

[I love to travel]

Well yes I agree, we are at the point where I believe home quarantine is actually safer. And we're also at the point where we can be requiring vaccinated travellers - possibly sending some AZ to our consulates to assist.

Home quarantine is only safe if people do the right thing which time and time again has proven not to be the case.

 

[justinbrett]

I can't help but think there are other options that should be on the table. Such as using Howard Springs exclusively for unvaccinated travellers (and later Vic/Qld facilities), and keeping HQ for those who have been vaccinated (this might need some support, for countries where difficult to get vaccine).

There seems to be increasing evidence that the vaccinated are less infectious (see below), so
1) You have a negative test of someone who is vaccinated.
2) They are less likely to get it during transit/last few days before departure.
3) If they do get it they are less likely to pass it on
4) The people they are likely to pass it on to (other HQ inmates and the staff) are also all vaccinated thus less likely to get it HQ from someone who is less likely to transmit it...

The risk seems to go much lower this way. Or am I missing something?

newsGP - Mounting evidence suggests COVID vaccines do reduce transmission

Since vaccines began rolling out across the world, many scientists have been hesitant to say they can reduce transmission of the virus.

www1.racgp.org.au

That's sensible (I actually suggested similar upthread) - but your alternative to HQ is still using HQ!

There's no guarantee there won't be spills in these communities. They still have to be transported, they will still have some interaction with staff, they will still be admitted to hospital.

Right now HQ accounts for around 6,000 spots per week. Howard Springs is on top of that, only 1000 spots. If we decide this week to suspend HQ - there's no telling the damage that will cause.

 

[justinbrett]

Exactly the states agreed on HQ from from day 1. If they didn't they wouldn't be doing it.
They just recently been blaming the feds, as it's not working as well as they'd hoped & can't keep to the covid zero approach.
It's a federal responsibility, yeah blah blah, weren't saying that back in 2020 were they.
We just need to transition the switch now.

States have to accept they said yes to the deal.

Amazing, well not really that nobody, absolutely nobody in the political world takes responsibility for anything. No wonder nobody trusts the pollies.

Also anybody that thinks fed based facilities, eg Howard Springs won't have leaks is only fooling themselves. Vic claiming to run it themselves I read (just pay for it feds), my goodness, I'm sure many will have faith in that facility.

Maybe Howard S hasn't yet had leaks, but as sure as the sun comes up, covid leaks, no matter how tight the zip is!

Quite remarkable that state governments are happy to run international students and Australian Open participants over and above their caps - without federal government assistance.

 

[dajop]

That's sensible (I actually suggested similar upthread) - but your alternative to HQ is still using HQ!

Baby steps! Lower the risk a bit first. Surely the risk has got to be at least 50% lower than currently the case. If not more.

 

[justinbrett]

Baby steps! Lower the risk a bit first. Surely the risk has got to be at least 50% lower than currently the case. If not more.

OK, then we are in agreement! I do think we would have to back this up by providing our consulates with AZ for those in countries who can't get access to vaccines.