Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

[Pushka]

Lot of workers in all sorts of industries wearing all sorts of PPE. Some of it quite physical work too.

Indeed. Refrigeration mechanics usually have to work in hot dusty environments and work in cramped areas doing heavy work and always wear highest level ppe. And don't get paid as much as furniture removalists do.

 

[33kft]

I’m intrigued by the constant commentary that Sydney should do X because that’s what Melbourne did or that because people did X during Melbourne lockdown then the behaviour in Sydney will be the same.

No, the consensus is Melbourne ballsed it up and landed in 5 months of lockdown with hundreds of cases and NSW appears to be doing the same thing. NSW may choose not to react the same way but they are close to guaranteed of being in the same predicament soon enough.

 

[antycbr]

No, the consensus is Melbourne ballsed it up and landed in 5 months of lockdown with hundreds of cases and NSW appears to be doing the same thing. NSW may choose not to react the same way but they are close to guaranteed of being in the same predicament soon enough.

Given we are in this twilight zone of pleading with people without locking down properly, it’s almost impossible not to compare how that worked for Victoria (not very well) compared to jumping this stage and going to stage 4 lockdown before the case numbers look like Victoria’s second wave.

The movie is not exactly the same, but the plot line is very similar at this point.

 

[Milboo]

I’m not talking about the politics of NSW Govt approach vs Vic approach because quite frankly I find such discussions tiresome.

I’m talking about people’s opinions here.

 

[nutwood]

Lot of workers in all sorts of industries wearing all sorts of PPE. Some of it quite physical work too.

I've been there, I find it hard to condemn people doing physical work who dispense with a mask. The correct questions should probably revolve about the systems that allowed them to superimpose the Vic-SA job onto the original NSW-Vic job.

 

[bcworld]

I’m not talking about the politics of NSW Govt approach vs Vic approach because quite frankly I find such discussions tiresome.

I’m talking about people’s opinions here.

I'm curious about how Melbourne and Sydney are 'very different'. Just as an example you mentioned, how far people travel for jobs...what's the difference?

 

[antycbr]

I'm curious about how Melbourne and Sydney are 'very different'. Just as an example you mentioned, how far people travel for jobs...what's the difference?

I know people have speculated that there’s less movement around Sydney than Melbourne, due to the geography and harbour getting in the way. This is true for certainly the northern beaches and is also reflective of how the outbreak has been delayed crossing the Parramatta river until recently, in which demographics of the north shore plays a large part.

However people do move a lot around Sydney particularly trades. The toll road network exists for a reason.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I’m intrigued by the constant commentary that Sydney should do X because that’s what Melbourne did or that because people did X during Melbourne lockdown then the behaviour in Sydney will be the same.

The two cities are very different in many ways, including geographic spread, extent people travel for jobs (due to housing affordability), different lifestyles etc.

Our respective populations act and react differently. Yes, we can be informed by what has gone before but it doesn’t mean it’s the right approach for Sydney and it’s residents.

In a lot of ways we in Melbourne/Victoria are seeing history repeating. Like Sydney, plenty in Melbourne didn’t like the lockdown, claimed it was confusing, came up with their own definitions of ‘essential’, didn’t like curfews, didn’t like mask wearing. Didn’t think rules applied to them. And the list goes on. We could pretty much play bingo with the way things are playing out. But eventually we saw it work.

Sydney seems to be in the ‘head in the sand’ phase. It’s frustrating to watch that. Why does Sydney think it is so different? This could have all been over by now if the lockdown had been swift and hard. Instead Sydney faces another 6-8 weeks

 

[Lynda2475]

I know people have speculated that there’s less movement around Sydney than Melbourne, due to the geography and harbour getting in the way.

This is untrue (except for northern beaches). Sydneysiders actually move around slightly more than Melburnians see article below.

Why Melbourne? The answer isn’t linked to Sydney

The idea that behavioural differences between the cities explain COVID transmission is seductive, but doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

www.smh.com.au

The main differences are in attitude and risk appetite (reflected in their choice of party/leader) driving different approaches.

Victoria is aspirational, wants covid zero and is happy to be island like culling arrivals to tiny numbers and closing borders frequently.

NSW is more pragmatic, its approach aims to balance physical wellbeing, mental health and the economy by staying as open as possible and keep accepting decent number of arrivals. Targetted restrictions, not state wide blunt decisions.

 

[antycbr]

This is untrue (except for northern beaches). Sydneysiders actually move around slightly more than Melburnians see article below.

Why Melbourne? The answer isn’t linked to Sydney

The idea that behavioural differences between the cities explain COVID transmission is seductive, but doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

www.smh.com.au

The main differences are in attitude and risk appetite (reflected in their choice of party/leader) driving different approaches.

Victoria is aspirational, wants covid zero and is happy to be island like culling arrivals to tiny numbers and closing borders frequently.

NSW is more prgamatic, its approach aims to balance physical wellbeing, mental health and the economy by staying as open as possible and keep accepting decent number of arrivals.

I think we have got the balance wrong now. I get the approach but now the government just appears stubborn.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Much like NSW isn’t the same as Sydney, greater Sydney isn’t the same throughout the LGA’s

We need the message to get through loud and clear and culturally appropriate to the various communities within these suburbs to stay at home.

I haven’t seen my parents for 18 months due to this pandemic.
Please can you do it for a few weeks?

 

[Milboo]

I hear you. I haven’t seen my parents in NZ for 2 years now. My plans to surprise my mother for her 71st (after we couldn’t celebrate her 70th) next month look unlikely now too.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

The Vic media release this evening has described the CT interviews as 'complex and challenging'. Seems possible that the version of events given by different members of the crew did not align.

And especially as the DHHS Daily Report also states: The Department is also using other methods of validation to determine their movement.

The two extracts on the two incursions in the report were:

Update: Interstate incursion - removalist​

Late last night, the Department was notified by NSW Health that a confirmed case was infectious in the community in Victoria on 8 and 9 July.​

​

The positive case entered Victoria on the morning of 8 July in a party of three for work.​

​

They departed Victoria and entered South Australia on the morning of 9 July.​

​

Households visited by the case for work are isolating and have been tested.​

​

Interviews, which are ongoing, are proving complex and challenging. The Department is also using other methods of validation to determine their movement.​

​

This afternoon, the Department was advised that another individual in this travelling party has returned a positive result.​

​

Public exposure sites will be published as soon as possible once confirmed and validated.​

​

​

Update: Interstate incursion - red zone arrivals​

This morning, the Department was notified of two confirmed cases.​

​

The cases are red zone arrivals from Sydney.​

​

They reside within a household of four in the City of Hume.​

​

One of the individuals who tested positive returned to Victoria on 8 July. The other members of the household returned on 4 July.​

​

Both cases have initial negative tests after their arrival.​

​

As red zone permit holders, they are required to quarantine for 14 days. Investigations and interviews are underway to determine their movements.​

 

[jakeseven7]

And especially as the DHHS Daily Report also states: The Department is also using other methods of validation to determine their movement.

The two extracts on the two incursions in the report were:

Update: Interstate incursion - removalist​

Late last night, the Department was notified by NSW Health that a confirmed case was infectious in the community in Victoria on 8 and 9 July.​

​

The positive case entered Victoria on the morning of 8 July in a party of three for work.​

​

They departed Victoria and entered South Australia on the morning of 9 July.​

​

Households visited by the case for work are isolating and have been tested.​

​

Interviews, which are ongoing, are proving complex and challenging. The Department is also using other methods of validation to determine their movement.​

​

This afternoon, the Department was advised that another individual in this travelling party has returned a positive result.​

​

Public exposure sites will be published as soon as possible once confirmed and validated.​

​

​

Update: Interstate incursion - red zone arrivals​

This morning, the Department was notified of two confirmed cases.​

​

The cases are red zone arrivals from Sydney.​

​

They reside within a household of four in the City of Hume.​

​

One of the individuals who tested positive returned to Victoria on 8 July. The other members of the household returned on 4 July.​

​

Both cases have initial negative tests after their arrival.​

​

As red zone permit holders, they are required to quarantine for 14 days. Investigations and interviews are underway to determine their movements.​

Let’s hope the red permit people sis what they were supposed to do - if they haven’t I think we know what will happen next…

Plus we really don’t need our two big states locked down!

 

[bcworld]

Let’s hope the red permit people sis what they were supposed to do - if they haven’t I think we know what will happen next…

Plus we really don’t need our two big states locked down!

Well, there are exposure sites now listed for Craigieburn that don't seem to align with the departure of the removalists.

 

[jase05]

From the Daily Mail

An employee at a visa consultancy centre in Sydney’s Covid-ravaged southwest worked for six days while infected with Covid-19, potentially exposing hundreds of staff and customers to the Indian Delta strain.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

I’m intrigued by the constant commentary that Sydney should do X because that’s what Melbourne did or that because people did X during Melbourne lockdown then the behaviour in Sydney will be the same.

The two cities are very different in many ways, including geographic spread, extent people travel for jobs (due to housing affordability), different lifestyles etc.

Our respective populations act and react differently. Yes, we can be informed by what has gone before but it doesn’t mean it’s the right approach for Sydney and it’s residents.

Yes it does not have to be the same, and indeed it cannot be the same as Melbourne has never had just the one set of lockdown restrictions. But also as each outbreak is different, and as you have indicated factors like the demographics involved all play a part. But certainly there can be commonalities too.

They have varied in Melbourne/Victoria as:

• They learnt as they went along - ie Second Ring Method was a game changer
• They have had various other tools, and improvement in tools which have varied- ie Contact tracing improved. Testing capability (volumes conducted per day and speed of all tests) much increased
• The variants have been different - ie With Kappa and Delta being more transmissible
• Restrictions varied with the threat level - ie There were not always curfews or 5km limits throughout each lockdown, just when required

So yes there is no "one size fits all approach".

But there is no doubt that the bigger the threat, the more strict and far reaching the combined restrictions need to be. ie Sydney in my opinion given the threat level started with too light a set of coughulative restrictions for the given threat and has been ramping them up progressively since. Whether they are as now strict as they may need to be is yet to be known. Though the other variable is how long you want the lockdown to last. Stricter and quicker lockdowns tend to get the desire result earlier.

Melbourne also with the second wave was not strict enough or widespread enough early on. By the end they had a much better understanding of what was required. Since October all outbreaks in Victoria have been handled very well.


With the last two overlapping Melbourne outbreaks the restrictions were pretty much exactly what was required. And the same for the Smile Buffalo Outbreak where no lockdown was utilised, and just mild restrictions used.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

From the Daily Mail

An employee at a visa consultancy centre in Sydney’s Covid-ravaged southwest worked for six days while infected with Covid-19, potentially exposing hundreds of staff and customers to the Indian Delta strain.

Yes early this evening the two exposure sites below were both added to the list. So possibly worked at both sites.

The sites are only 200m apart and looking on google maps street view they seem to be the same or at least related businesses.

Hopefully with lockdown it did not have face to face customers.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

I think the other part of the equation of a stricter lockdown is financial assistance.

Hopefully the Federal/NSW Governments can announce something tomorrow to pave the way to really clamp down on what is essential work to warrant leaving home (and equally open a retail shop/business for a day)

The numbers are rising and theoretically waiting 4 more days to see the result of the updated restriction plus increased police presence is fool’s gold.

To me the sad/frustrating thing is seeing the number of non-isolating infectious in the community, which the NSW Premier is consistently referring to pretty much constantly, going up. If it was stabilizing may be Sydney could wait the 4 more days but it’s going up - and pretty much exponentially.

 

[jase05]

Well, there are exposure sites now listed for Craigieburn that don't seem to align with the departure of the removalists.