Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

[jakeseven7]

NT chief minister Michael Gunner said that even when they hit 80% of the local population vaccinated (which should happen in the next 50 days), the Territory is going to have to keep border closures to parts of Australia that have high Covid-19 case numbers.

Does Chief Minister Groaner realise this will be ALL states once we open up…. Case numbers will be high everywhere….
What don’t these people understand about the virus?!

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Does Chief Minister Groaner realise this will be ALL states once we open up…. Case numbers will be high everywhere….
What don’t these people understand about the virus?!

Well I have a more positive view of NT.

For most of the pandemic they have used quarantine as the safeguard/treatment for risk of covid being introduced. So I'm sure they will come up with something sensible involving vaccinated and such.

I think on the vaccination thread I posted ABC reporting the NT opening up post-80% criteria - something like 80% across each region (and vulnerable population?) is their criteria.

What I glean from today's reporting on NT is that NT was focussed on hospital/ICU numbers and protecting the vulnerable

 

[jakeseven7]

Well I have a more positive view of NT.

For most of the pandemic they have used quarantine as the safeguard/treatment for risk of covid being introduced. So I'm sure they will come up with something sensible involving vaccinated and such.

I think on the vaccination thread I posted ABC reporting the NT opening up post-80% criteria - something like 80% across each region (and vulnerable population?) is their criteria.

What I glean from today's reporting on NT is that NT was focussed on hospital/ICU numbers and protecting the vulnerable

Sure but people need to drop the obsession with case numbers as a proxy for their decisions.

It’s just continuing to feed the collective paranoia and also sadly feeds the control our beloved state dictators have over us.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Sure but people need to drop the obsession with case numbers as a proxy for their decisions.

It’s just continuing to feed the collective paranoia and also sadly feeds the control our beloved state dictators have over us.

Well case numbers is still being used by some European countries to red zone USA recently. Didn't matter if travellers were vaccinated.

I think governments are just using baby steps to manage what they can. Just hope they don't stop moving forward over time.

UK, which I think now has no restrictions, announced an Autumn/Winter plan where a plan B would be activated in certain circumstances - one example being hospital being over-utilised by covid.

With NT having only 8 ICU beds for covid, their ability to keep hospital numbers down might seem low, especially as Delta has a high strikerate through households.

 

[jrfsp]

It may become relevant for Australia in six months from now how the UK does for its upcoming Autumn/Winter - the official Autumn/Winter plan - with a plan B (reintroduction of vaccine passports being part of local restrictions)

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1017404/COVID-19-response-autumn-and-winter-plan-2021.pdf

Singapore are reportedly are also considering a full lockdown as an option unless hospitalisations come down. They have over 80% vaccination rate.

 

[dairyfloss]

Singapore are reportedly are also considering a full lockdown as an option unless hospitalisations come down. They have over 80% vaccination rate.

Staying OT for a moment - Singapore is looking less and less attractive for tourism, at the moment. The restrictions still imposed on fully vaccinated folks, even with 81% of the TOTAL population protected (& this doesn't include Sinovac recipients, which they have since removed from their numbers) are more than we will have in NSW, even at 70% of >16 protected.

In SG there is maximum groups of 5 or less in F&B, and most other settings, incl. outdoors. Max 5 visitors to the home a day. Mask wearing outdoors is ongoing. Larger events can occur, but again, small groups and bookings only within those. There's a bunch more.

I love the place; been there over 60 times... but will need to wait a little longer even after we can get up there, before I would. I was hoping they'd be more ambitious once they hit their very high targets.

 

[N860CR]

If countries are still honestly considering hard lockdowns are 80% vaccination then the world is in serious trouble. Where to from there?

 

[jrfsp]

If countries are still honestly considering hard lockdowns are 80% vaccination then the world is in serious trouble. Where to from there?

Who knows, but herd immunity isnt occurring at 80% with Delta, what other variants are around the corner? We'll become alot better at managing the virus but as alot of experts are saying it will take another generation of vaccines to really get ahead.

"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."

 

[N860CR]

Who knows, but herd immunity isnt occurring at 80% with Delta, what other variants are around the corner? We'll become alot better at managing the virus but as alot of experts are saying it will take another generation of vaccines to really get ahead.

We’re never getting a vaccine that is 100% effective and will be administered to 100% of the world population. With the current extremely effective vaccines, treatments that overall work well and a fairly small mortality rate in the unvaccinated, I’m really not sure what more these countries want? Unless they genuinely believe worldwide eradication is possible (which is beyond naive).

At some point (and 80% vaccination is a good number) we need to say “ok, this is over, we move on”. Yes, sadly some people will die. That’s simply part of life.

 

[jrfsp]

We’re never getting a vaccine that is 100% effective and will be administered to 100% of the world population. With the current extremely effective vaccines, treatments that overall work well and a fairly small mortality rate in the unvaccinated, I’m really not sure what more these countries want? Unless they genuinely believe worldwide eradication is possible (which is beyond naive).

At some point (and 80% vaccination is a good number) we need to say “ok, this is over, we move on”. Yes, sadly some people will die. That’s simply part of life.

I agree - the issue is when healthcare becomes overburdened. The other health issues normally circulating don't go away. If covid patients are clogging up the health system then how can we move on? Look at the waiting lists for treatment in the UK, they are trying to avoid a repeat of last winter when covid took over and everything paused.

 

[N860CR]

I agree - the issue is when healthcare becomes overburdened. The other health issues normally circulating don't go away. If covid patients are clogging up the health system then how can we move on? Look at the waiting lists for treatment in the UK, they are trying to avoid a repeat of last winter when covid took over and everything paused.

Change the health system. We’ve spent god knows how much money on these lockdowns over the last 18 months, so what’s another few billion on some covid field hospitals. From memory, we actually bought 2000 ventilators which subsequently gathered dust before being sent to Indonesia.

At 80% vaccination in one of the worlds richest countries, there should be zero issue in handling a few covid patients. If we cant, then my MP had better start explaining where my taxes and Medicare levies have been going.

 

[jrfsp]

Its staff not equipment, highly skilled professionals who have years of training. There's a global shortage of healthcare staff.

As a society how do we value healthcare workers? Nowhere near enough. Sport players, politicians, big business however....

 

[N860CR]

Its staff not equipment, highly skilled professionals who have years of training. There's a global shortage of healthcare staff.

As a society how do we value healthcare workers? Nowhere near enough. Sport players, politicians, big business however....

Not hard to fix in a wealthy country like Australia. It’s just a matter of the government doing it. Or more critically, the people standing up to force them to.

 

[Pushka]

Its staff not equipment, highly skilled professionals who have years of training. There's a global shortage of healthcare staff.

As a society how do we value healthcare workers? Nowhere near enough. Sport players, politicians, big business however....

Plus many have been directed into the testing and immunisation clinics.

 

[N860CR]

Plus many have been directed into the testing and immunisation clinics.

Yep. Take some of the nurses from these pointless drive through testing stations and get them working in hospitals.

At the height of the pandemic in 2020 we had two wards closed with a huge volume of nurses and a handful of doctors deployed to the airport to temperature check and test symptomatic passengers (they spent their days either sleeping on benches or reading) and running testing clinics where they “swabbed the same bored X5 driving housewives multiple times per week” (not my description).

With over 100,000 tests per day, we could pay for a lot of nurses.

 

[drron]

Australia has lived with 1000 flu deaths a year for quite some time.Mostly these are older folk with comorbidities but occasionally a variant that also strikes the young such as in 2009 and 2017.At times we have had some aged care facilities locked down usually for a short time.
Now in the current Sydney outbreak the mortality rate is ~ 0.4%.This means there would be 250000 cases to get 1000 deaths.

The difference to the flu is that there will be more hospitalised and more ICU usage.However as vaccinations rise the mortality rate and ICU rates of admission should drop further.
And as a positive it is likely flu deaths will be lower than average as Covid does cause deaths in the same demographic.

And just to point out to the WA CHO as WA's population is ~2.8 million then WA can expect 27,500 cases per year and 110 deaths.

So if Australia has accepted 1000 flu deaths a year why are we hyperventilating and adversely affecting our economy,our mental health and isolating ourselves from the rest of the world.Why won't we be able to accept 1000 covid deaths per year.

 

[Batterytraveller]

I can't see any problem with pushing for as close to 100% vaccination as possible but that is not the same as saying we shouldn't open at 80% (16+). The more people vaccinated the lower the costs to care for them, the lower the costs to society as a whole. We don't stop pushing for as complete coverage as a possible. As a taxpayer I would much rather people ended up having the sniffles at home than costing thousands of dollars a day in an ICU. As a Human being it goes without saying I want people to be as healthy, happy and productive as possible.

Even though we have nearly obliterated smoking in Australia it doesn't mean there isn't value to us all in trying to end it completely. Public health is never done.

But yes we desperately need a managed reopening of society.

 

[Seat0B]

I think two months is a near certainty, given 0-12yo's were aired. I think Barr is going for 90%.

I'm sure you are right and it really steams me up. More bloody moving of the goal posts.

 

[Pom-DownUnder]

Australia has lived with 1000 flu deaths a year for quite some time.Mostly these are older folk with comorbidities but occasionally a variant that also strikes the young such as in 2009 and 2017.At times we have had some aged care facilities locked down usually for a short time.
Now in the current Sydney outbreak the mortality rate is ~ 0.4%.This means there would be 250000 cases to get 1000 deaths.

The difference to the flu is that there will be more hospitalised and more ICU usage.However as vaccinations rise the mortality rate and ICU rates of admission should drop further.
And as a positive it is likely flu deaths will be lower than average as Covid does cause deaths in the same demographic.

And just to point out to the WA CHO as WA's population is ~2.8 million then WA can expect 27,500 cases per year and 110 deaths.

So if Australia has accepted 1000 flu deaths a year why are we hyperventilating and adversely affecting our economy,our mental health and isolating ourselves from the rest of the world.Why won't we be able to accept 1000 covid deaths per year.

I really think the news living off covid for nearly two years now has a massive role in this.

its like they have been trying to convince people that if only we didnt have covid in the world then we could all live forever debt free with our own unicorn to cuddle us to sleep at night.

and people are buying into it, with no idea of the risks people take every day, deaths that happen every day.

if these people saw the numbers on scuba diving / sky diving and hand gliding (horrendous numbers on hand gliding strangely). then they would be nailing their doors shut and be curled up in their bathtubs crying themselves to sleep every night.

 

[Seat0B]

Its staff not equipment, highly skilled professionals who have years of training. There's a global shortage of healthcare staff.

As a society how do we value healthcare workers? Nowhere near enough. Sport players, politicians, big business however....

You could post in this thread where I raised similar points. Who knows if someone important might read it!

Life After the Pandemic

This article from the Guardian stimulated me to start thinking about life after the pandemic. Our society has certainly been through some paradigm changing opportunities. Yes I know it’s a buzz phrase, but actually true in these circumstances. I thought I might start a positive thread to look...

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au