Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Not saying any link to victoria in the article on the ABC website updated 23 minutes ago.

Federal MP self-isolates after dining at Sydney pub linked to nine coronavirus cases

NSW Health confirms nine coronavirus cases are linked to the Crossroads Hotel in south-west Sydney, with an 18-year-old staff member one of those to have tested positive.

www.abc.net.au

Snap. Found this article too.

Upstream link not found and blog was a bit too presumptuous or mistaken on facts - understandable as there is a lot going on

 

[lovetravellingoz]

I wonder if they will lock down the suburb/LGA...

Well one advantage of a hotel is that it provides a specific point that people should know that they have been to. So with rapid testing they should soon have a pretty reasonable idea if additional controls are needed.

The disadvantage is evidently large numbers have passed through it with probably most having stayed for lengthy duration.

I do not know the hotel, but looking at google maps I assume, perhaps wrongly, that it is mainly used by locals rather than passers through. If so spread may more localised. Though having said that one of the two people first found positives lives in the Blue Mountains.

Of note will be where else did the two reported Victorians go (if they are the source)?



For a suburb lockdown I think that history shows if cases are few that such a measure is not required.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

I wonder if they will lock down the suburb/LGA...

At this moment they have gone with the self-isolation for 14 days regardless of positive or negative testing for all patrons from 3/7-10/7.

As none of the positives so far seem to have ‘rebellious’ streak, hopefully a high level of compliance.

 

[jakeseven7]

At this moment they have gone with the self-isolation for 14 days regardless of positive or negative testing for all patrons from 3/7-10/7.

As none of the positives so far seem to have ‘rebellious’ streak, hopefully a high level of compliance.

Oh do you know them? Or are you judging just from their good behaviour when there is a camera trained on them

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Oh do you know them? Or are you judging just from their good behaviour when there is a camera trained on them

Of course, I don’t know them.

I guess the powers that be made that judgment based on the testing queues when the first two cases and their link were announced.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Oh do you know them? Or are you judging just from their good behaviour when there is a camera trained on them

Ignoring the security gurads themselves, a lot of Melbourne's current spike is via the families, friends and the devout. Good virus behaviour being evidently overuled by well we know them so it is ok.

 

[Pushka]

Ignoring the security gurads themselves, a lot of Melbourne's current spike is via the families, friends and the devout. Good virus behaviour being evidently overuled by well we know them so it is ok.

But had the security guards not played their games the virus wouldn't have been introduced into those communities in the first place as the Coburg and School cluster have been linked to that activity. But the 'know them so it's ok' message is important.

 

[Flying mermaid]

Not saying any link to victoria in the article on the ABC website updated 23 minutes ago.

Federal MP self-isolates after dining at Sydney pub linked to nine coronavirus cases

NSW Health confirms nine coronavirus cases are linked to the Crossroads Hotel in south-west Sydney, with an 18-year-old staff member one of those to have tested positive.

www.abc.net.au

Ok must have been a mistake in the blog - pity. It would be nice to know the original case.

 

[jakeseven7]

Of course, I don’t know them.

I guess the powers that be made that judgment based on the testing queues when the first two cases and their link were announced.

Mmmm Hmmm. Just making a point. Not personal

Human behaviour is human behaviour and that’s why there is spread around the world. Anyway what can you honestly do.

Post automatically merged: Jul 12, 2020

Ok must have been a mistake in the blog - pity. It would be nice to know the original case.

Could be multiple cases as well. Who knows. Hopefully they find it soon before it moves too far around Sydney.

Im sure the powers that be have their hand on the border wall ‘UP’ trigger here in QLD again

 

[SydneySwan]

Ignoring the security gurads themselves, a lot of Melbourne's current spike is via the families, friends and the devout. Good virus behaviour being evidently overuled by well we know them so it is ok.

I suspect that you are right and don't underestimate the power of religious belief. A couple of weeks ago whilst waiting outside a cafe for my T/A coffee to be made, an elderly lady asked me why I was waiting outside. I told her because I was maintaining social distancing. She responded 'but God protects his own'. I replied that I am a firm non-believer and she was completely lost for a response. Fortunately my coffee was now ready and I could beat a retreat.

I firmly believe that COVID is not a matter of belief.

 

[SydneySwan]

Im sure the powers that be have their hand on the border wall ‘UP’ trigger here in QLD again

My guess is the QLD war cabinet reviews the border status daily, perhaps even more often.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

But had the security guards not played their games the virus wouldn't have been introduced into those communities in the first place as the Coburg and School cluster have been linked to that activity. But the 'know them so it's ok' message is important.

I just meant ignore as in for this discussion point.

However there was probably some other community spread still occurring. with genomic testing the health authorities will know by now the % split.

The spread from the guards is now closed. What will keep it growing or not now is the groups and behaviours that I mentioned.

I suspect that you are right and don't underestimate the power of religious belief. A couple of weeks ago whilst waiting outside a cafe for my T/A coffee to be made, an elderly lady asked me why I was waiting outside. I told her because I was maintaining social distancing. She responded 'but God protects his own'. I replied that I am a firm non-believer and she was completely lost for a response. Fortunately my coffee was now ready and I could beat a retreat.

I firmly believe that COVID is not a matter of belief.

I don't think it is so much the thought god will protect (the righteous) by some though with a minority it probably was, as rather more that religious behaviours in themselves generate a lot of social contact and mixing. And with people you know and trust viral boundaries tend to go down. With religious schools of all faiths you get both the school parent mixing as well as the observance mixing.

With the Hasidic Jews in NY who have been hit hard a lot of he commentary was that their lifestyle generated a lot of physical mixing, and that it was hard for then to embrace physical distancing as it was so against their norm. That they are against things like the internet made it harder as well as that did not allow the to embrace social mixing substitutes.

Ok must have been a mistake in the blog - pity. It would be nice to know the original case.

Well maybe, maybe not. Media reports often get copy and pasted and updated without all the article being updated. Either way we should no later in the day, or tomorrow.

 

[Pushka]

I suspect that you are right and don't underestimate the power of religious belief. A couple of weeks ago whilst waiting outside a cafe for my T/A coffee to be made, an elderly lady asked me why I was waiting outside. I told her because I was maintaining social distancing. She responded 'but God protects his own'. I replied that I am a firm non-believer and she was completely lost for a response. Fortunately my coffee was now ready and I could beat a retreat.

I firmly believe that COVID is not a matter of belief.

In Iran their practise is to lick the sacred wall. It's an interesting topic. It's customary amongst many Australians to celebrate Anzacs. We were asked not to and didn't. Same with Easter. It's therefore frustrating that others don't have the same sense of community.

 

[Hvr]

Ignoring the security gurads

But had the security guards not played their games

It's probably time to start looking at why the private security guards weren't able to do their job.

Lock-down lunacy: How we stuffed it up

One young Pan Pacific Hotel quarantine guest, resplendent in bike shorts, took advantage of a sunny winter’s day to escape and take selfies performing a series of impressive handstands at South Wharf.

www.theage.com.au

The industry is basically stuffed, with companies treating people very poorly and ripping off all involved.

We've now seen the outcomes of privatisation and how it has lead to some very poor outcomes.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

To be fairer on the family spread concern:

In my family unit, we regard one under test (eg mild symptoms) as if we are all under test and will self-isolate until result is known. If positive we are all under isolation. This is our position in an environment when minimal community spread.

So say a security guard’s family was the source, then say they all had no symptoms then that would be ok. If they ignored their symptoms then that’s another issue.

One point I did pick up is symptoms are less obvious because a larger proportion that get COVID are younger than the first wave. Egwhich seems likely since frontline workers getting positives

 

[Flying mermaid]

Well one advantage of a hotel is that it provides a specific point that people should know that they have been to. So with rapid testing they should soon have a pretty reasonable idea if additional controls are needed.

The disadvantage is evidently large numbers have passed through it with probably most having stayed for lengthy duration.

I do not know the hotel, but looking at google maps I assume, perhaps wrongly, that it is mainly used by locals rather than passers through. If so spread may more localised. Though having said that one of the two people first found positives lives in the Blue Mountains.

It’s hard to say - it’s more or less on the Hume highway linking Liverpool and Campbelltown. Lots of people live in Camden and Campbelltown and work in Liverpool. Dr FM lived in Casula when working at Liverpool hospital and we went to Casula quite a lot, but don’t actually remember the hotel.

To be fairer on the family spread concern:

In my family unit, we regard one under test (eg mild symptoms) as if we are all under test and will self-isolate until result is known. If positive we are all under isolation. This is our position in an environment when minimal community spread.

So say a security guard’s family was the source, then say they all had no symptoms then that would be ok. If they ignored their symptoms then that’s another issue.

One point I did pick up is symptoms are less obvious because a larger proportion that get COVID are younger than the first wave. Egwhich seems likely since frontline workers getting positives

Wasn’t there a case of someone very early in the current wave, who tested positive but still went to work. That was why they brought in a hardship allowance. So there has definitely been some selfish behaviour, although if you have nothing to live on and not eligible for sick leave, it’s understandable.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

It’s hard to say - it’s more or less on the Hume highway linking Liverpool and Campbelltown. Lots of people live in Camden and Campbelltown and work in Liverpool. Dr FM lived in Casula when working at Liverpool hospital and we went to Casula quite a lot, but don’t actually remember the hotel.

It’s location makes it possible that it’s an essential worker eg truck driver who is too itinerant and busy to realise what has happened.

 

[Flying mermaid]

It's probably time to start looking at why the private security guards weren't able to do their job.

Lock-down lunacy: How we stuffed it up

One young Pan Pacific Hotel quarantine guest, resplendent in bike shorts, took advantage of a sunny winter’s day to escape and take selfies performing a series of impressive handstands at South Wharf.

www.theage.com.au

The industry is basically stuffed, with companies treating people very poorly and ripping off all involved.

We've now seen the outcomes of privatisation and how it has lead to some very poor outcomes.

Just read that - what a shambles

 

[lovetravellingoz]

To be fairer on the family spread concern:

In my family unit, we regard one under test (eg mild symptoms) as if we are all under test and will self-isolate until result is known. If positive we are all under isolation. This is our position in an environment when minimal community spread.

So say a security guard’s family was the source, then say they all had no symptoms then that would be ok. If they ignored their symptoms then that’s another issue.

One point I did pick up is symptoms are less obvious because a larger proportion that get COVID are younger than the first wave. Eg which seems likely since frontline workers getting positives

Most families have done the right thing. However it is not a matter of being fair, it is just what the data and contact tracing has shown to have occurred.

• Family members who either knew they were positive, or had a test due to suspected being and should have been isolating, knowing participated at family gatherings. That is they knowingly put their own families at risk.
• One large family cluster commence at a very large gathering that occurred before the size limits were reduced. ie in breach of regulations at the time. The source was a doctor who caught it from a patient and the doctor was asymptomatic, but the Doctor also knew that the gathering was a clear breach of the restrictions at that time.
• Many of the clusters when this spike gained momentum aware grouped and labelled as family clusters and spread had been predominately been through through the family.
• The H&M cluster for example was first identified through the store, but it was quickly realised to be primarily a family spread cluster and was then relabelled to be the northern Melbourne Family Cluster.

And with the security guards I am not sure why you believe that they had no symptoms at all. Some of the guards were interviewed and have stated that they were instructed to not get tested.

With the healthworkers not much been revealed in terms of the source of infections , and you will also note that they have not revealed the type of healthworkers in many cases (ie healthworkers include anyone at the facility including cleaners on up). So family spread may well be also what has been the original source of infection in many cases.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Wasn’t there a case of someone very early in the current wave, who tested positive but still went to work. That was why they brought in a hardship allowance. So there has definitely been some selfish behaviour, although if you have nothing to live on and not eligible for sick leave, it’s understandable.

I think this issue applies to a number of contexts

Say you have a red edeal to Brisbane. You get symptoms. You get a test. Qantas don’t seem too sympathetic to any changes made now. Eg if you are already on your second change, they will charge a fee. So it’s also companies not being COVIDSafe in their T&Cs