Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

[Melburnian1]

...
b. attending a religious service is hardly an essential service - there is zero need to go to a place of worship multiple times a week - if you want to pray do it at home, then you are not risking your health and that of others.

As a Catholic, I can assure you that going to Mass is extremely important because it's a sacrifice and also where we receive the Body and Blood of Christ. It's also a shared occasion where the community comes together to worship Him.

Many through the ages would disagree with you that 'there is zero need to go a place of worship multiple times a week.'

This Maronite Cathedral where the transmission occurred is in full communion with the Roman Catholic Church even though its celebration of the Mass may slightly differ. I've never been to one of their Masses but great that they are well attended.

 

[p--and--t]

Sorry, but it's not 'gratuitous.' He and his colleagues have made a number of extremely serious errors.

Maybe so, but there is no-one else obvious I can think of that would have done a better job.

No one person on earth can personally supervise tens of thousands of workers and contractors to the government and every person in a supervisory/management position in any organisation relies to a great extent that people that are charged to carry out a function will do so.

No person currently on earth was in charge at the time of, or has experience, in managing a pandemic of this magnitude and complexity.

Not one of the Premiers, nor the PM have been free of making missteps nor escaped from being under siege from people from all quarters telling them they are doing the wrong thing since February.

They are individually allegedly relying on medical advise, and it has become very clear in the last week there definitely has not been a consensus in the AHPPC and recommendations have been a moving target (e.g. masks).

The CHO (fed) has on more than 2 occasions stated in media conferences that the processes followed in Vic were exactly as specified by the AHPPC (Translation: the processes were not specific enough in many areas and in hindsight obviously some states added additional steps to the process not dictated by the feds procedures and potentially not shared with other states).

We are being showered on a daily basis by self appointed experts across the spectrum giving 180 deg opposite opinions on how the pandemic should have been managed including that Dan was totally out of step and had far too many restrictions for far too long. A few weeks later various of their cohort are lobbying daily urgently we should have gone to stage four three weeks ago when in March they were saying stage 3 was oppressive and unnecessary. In parallel we have MPs and lawyers saying they will support suing the Vic gov for mandating mask wearing.

Getting it right has poorer odds than winning the Powerball.

No-one is perfect and on a personal level I can only shudder looking at some of the alternatives that we could have had.

 

[Pushka]

In hindsight..
Everything was preventable had we closed the borders on 1 Jan

Not really. Had other states experienced the same issues then I'd agree. Of course mistakes were made along the way in the early days. The rest of Australia used health workers and/or Police. So for me - It comes down to poor judgement.

 

[p--and--t]

There's somewhere between 750 and 1000 individuals for whom it hasn't been able to do this.

I would appreciate you supplying a reference for me to peruse to support that assertion

 

[Melburnian1]

I would appreciate you supplying a reference for me to peruse to support that assertion

'The Australian' online this arvo:

'As Victorians swamp stores in preparation for a mandatory mask wearing outdoors edict to take effect, at least 759 virus cases in Victoria since July 1 have no known source. And the number could be more than 1000 with 247 of today’s 275 new cases in the state not yet linked to known clusters.

Meanwhile the number of Victorian COVID-19 active cases outside the Melbourne metropolitan and Mitchell Shire lockdown zone has almost tripled in a week, from 27 last Monday to 73 this Monday...'

And by the way, unlike other states, Daniel Andrews refused initially to allow defence force staff ('members') to come to Victoria to among other things keep on eye on those quarantining at hotels.

Very OK to blame him!

I'm in Victoria and have a fair idea how much this whole situation is out of control.

 

[Hvr]

An issue we've had in Victoria is that while there is bipartisanship elsewhere in the country the Liberal opposition leader has always said the exact opposite to what Dan has done.

Initial strictness was met with derision, abuse and calls for the easing of restrictions. Then the easing of restrictions was met with another torrent of Liberal party abuse calling for them to be tightened up. Them the latest series of restrictions was again met with abuse and derision.

Regarding the security guard controversy, it will be interesting see the outcome. I truly hope the companies are named and shamed, or at the very least not paid for their alleged gross incompetence.

The compulsory mask wearing was again met with derision about how the masks should have been distributed earlier.

There have been calls that the ADF should have been called in earlier, yet when the Police Chief Commissioner was asked about this, he said that he hadn't wanted them in the state at that time.

As for the PM, well all he has to do is stand back and let the states handle it. If they do well, he will share the glory. If not so well then you'll never see him again.

Oh, and where is the Governor-General? I understand he doesn't want to go out in public but we have a very good NBN (at least according to the PM) and he could send a message of support to the essential service workers via the internet.

Maybe an address to the nation? Just something, anything, to let us know he really cares. Or can at least pretend he does?

 

[Melburnian1]

An issue we've had in Victoria is that while there is bipartisanship elsewhere in the country the Liberal opposition leader has always said the exact opposite to what Dan has done...

That's most untrue. The Liberal Opposition has publicly said it stands with the government.

But it's entitled to criticise, just like NSW Labor criticised the NSW government's handling at times.

 

[tgh]

The political blame game is alive and well in Au as well as Loftap it seems.. perhaps we are suffering a little political paranoia also….

 

[blackcat20]

Not really. Had other states experienced the same issues then I'd agree. Of course mistakes were made along the way in the early days. The rest of Australia used health workers and/or Police. So for me - It comes down to poor judgement.

The issue only occurred in two out of, I think, twelve hotels. A couple of security guards stuffed up, but many more didn’t. How on earth could anyone predict that?

 

[Pushka]

My thoughts are that a message from the GG isnt on many peoples care-about list right now. As a small business owner who actually employees people, Job Keeper and Cash Flow injection have meant the difference between us closing right down versus keeping staff on. The Feds have done and continue to plug in the hard financials and its up to each state to manage the operations part of it.

 

[TheRealTMA]

An issue we've had in Victoria is that while there is bipartisanship elsewhere in the country the Liberal opposition leader has always said the exact opposite to what Dan has done.

Initial strictness was met with derision, abuse and calls for the easing of restrictions. Then the easing of restrictions was met with another torrent of Liberal party abuse calling for them to be tightened up. Them the latest series of restrictions was again met with abuse and derision.

Regarding the security guard controversy, it will be interesting see the outcome. I truly hope the companies are named and shamed, or at the very least not paid for their alleged gross incompetence.

The compulsory mask wearing was again met with derision about how the masks should have been distributed earlier.

There have been calls that the ADF should have been called in earlier, yet when the Police Chief Commissioner was asked about this, he said that he hadn't wanted them in the state at that time.

As for the PM, well all he has to do is stand back and let the states handle it. If they do well, he will share the glory. If not so well then you'll never see him again.

Oh, and where is the Governor-General? I understand he doesn't want to go out in public but we have a very good NBN (at least according to the PM) and he could send a message of support to the essential service workers via the internet.

Maybe an address to the nation? Just something, anything, to let us know he really cares. Or can at least pretend he does?

From afar, I do find that the liberal opposition in Victoria has been playing political games and brinkmanship rather than working towards a collective solution. Who would want to be in the premier’s position. Given the hindsight, there have been missteps but overall I believe he has done a good job given the circumstances.

 

[Pushka]

The issue only occurred in two out of, I think, twelve hotels. A couple of security guards stuffed up, but many more didn’t. How on earth could anyone predict that?

By not providing appropriate training and selecting people without the nous or skills? It only takes one!

 

[p--and--t]

247 of today’s 275 new cases in the state not yet linked to known clusters.

It is my understanding from posting of others here, that that is normal on the day of the report and within 24-48 hours they are shifted to another column after analysis and interviewing has occurred. So possibly a misleading statement made by the reporter either in ignorance or pushing an agenda.

 

[TheRealTMA]

My thoughts are that a message from the GG isnt on many peoples care-about list right now. As a small business owner who actually employees people, Job Keeper and Cash Flow injection have meant the difference between us closing right down versus keeping staff on. The Feds have done and continue to plug in the hard financials and its up to each state to manage the operations part of it.

What’s the GG really got to do with it all? He’s irrelevant, An address from him would concern me more that in reality the world was ending, which it’s not. Leave it to elected representatives, not royalty or apparatchiks.

 

[p--and--t]

By not providing appropriate training and selecting people without the nous or skills? It only takes one!

It is obvious that occurred, but what has not come out yet, and the judicial review may reveal, is whether that was specifically a requirement of the contracts that were ignored by the contractors or whether it was an oversight when the work was allocated in a rush.

 

[Lynda2475]

As a Catholic, I can assure you that going to Mass is extremely important because it's a sacrifice and also where we receive the Body and Blood of Christ. It's also a shared occasion where the community comes together to worship Him

IMO its is extremely selfish to put individual religious community desire ahead of of the health of the community at large. If looking to make a worthy sacrifice, right now that means not going to large gatherings and ignoring health mandates by singing, shaking hands, taking communion (you are eating a wafer manhandled by a priest).

Religious belief does not give anyone the right to break state or federal health mandates. We are a secular society, state laws outweigh any direction from the pope or any relgious leaders.

 

[Pushka]

What’s the GG really got to do with it all? He’s irrelevant, An address from him would concern me more that in reality the world was ending, which it’s not. Leave it to elected representatives, not royalty or apparatchiks.

Yes, I totally agree. I was responding to HVR's complaint that the GG should have enlisted NBN and made a public announcement to soothe the troubled population.

 

[Hvr]

By not providing appropriate training and selecting people without the nous or skills? It only takes one!

Which proves the point that privatising essential services is way more expensive in the long run.

The original company sub-contracted the work to another company, which then sub-contracted it to another company. Each company took their share as the actual work went to the cheapest bidder.

Basically people were forced to act as sub-contractors and work stupidly long hours across multiple sites to try and get a basic income.

 

[Pushka]

It is obvious that occurred, but what has not come out yet, and the judicial review may reveal, is whether that was specifically a requirement of the contracts that were ignored by the contractors or whether it was an oversight when the work was allocated in a rush.

I am looking forward to the details as you say.

 

[p--and--t]

And by the way, unlike other states, Daniel Andrews refused initially to allow defence force staff ('members') to come to Victoria to among other things keep on eye on those quarantining at hotels.

Other reports would suggest that statement is not correct. Allegedly that decision was not made by Dan or at a minimum the people he relied on advised the course of action taken. We all shall find out the veracity of same in the fullness of time from the judicial enquiry.