Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

[lovetravellingoz]

Dan just announced $300 payment to anyone who has taken a test , thus needs to isolate, is in work (will need to show a payslips or similar), but has no access to sick leave.

If positive is eligible for a further $1500 payment.

Excellent move IMO.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Dan also said the Ro is believed to be about 1.0 in Vic at present. This means cases will be about the same each day.

So still looking to take measures such as the testing payment (so people test earlier and isolate more) to help drive it down.

---------
Obviously facemasks today is another new measure.

 

[kyle]

Sorry are we still talking hospitals and now?

Hospitals all have ample PPE stocks. There is no need to for BYO PPE. Indeed there would be risks with BYO PPE.
However as of today staff will need to wear facemasks to and from work.

Depending on what the staff member is doing different levels PPE will be worn while at work. During a shift it will all have to be discarded and replaced multiple times.

I was talking about the early days.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Better news on the hospital front:

VIC HOSPITALISED
Cases in Hospital

DATE	HOSP	ICU	VENT
Fri 17 Jul	122	31	22
Sat 18 Jul	110	25	18
Sun 19 Jul	130	28	18
Mon 20 Jul	147	31	16
Tue 21 Jul	174	36	22
Wed 22 Jul	205	40	24
Thu 23 Jul	201	40	24

 

[ellen10]

I have been following this thread for a while. There is so much information to digest. We were to be away in Queensland on a road trip visiting family by now, but some other family health problems have delayed us (not Covid related and not us).
We are really not sure whether to pursue this trip or just stay put, I have taken some leave from work. Contemplating cancelling it.
I don't know what is the right thing to do, we live in NSW, but not Sydney. And maybe Queensland will close its borders again anyway.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

The other problem is that with the mandatory wearing of masks in Melbourne they are policing the less important times to wear a mask.Most large public indoor gatherings are in lockdown but still places like supermarkets where they are needed.But it is the indoor private meetings where most of the virus has been shared.Obviously impossible to properly enforce this area.

I don't follow.

With respect to the Melbourne GMMA and Mitchell as of today everyone in a supermarket has to wear a facemask. Ditto for any store, visiting chemist, the doctors etc etc

As of today everyone in any workplace, unless working from home or by themselves, has to wear a facemask.

There has been for some time the restriction that no visitors (with particular exceptions) are allowed to private dwellings.

What are these indoor private meetings that you refer to? What are these other public gatherings where people do not need to wear masks?

 

[Lynda2475]

19 new cases in NSW today:

• Three people associated with the Crossroads Hotel cluster.
• Nine people associated with the Thai Rock restaurant cluster.
• Three cases are still under investigation.
• One South Western Sydney resident who acquired their infection in Victoria and has been self-isolating since arriving in NSW.
• Three are returned travellers in hotel quarantine.

The 3 (in red) are the ones to worry about - i believe these are in Port Macquaries.

Quite a lot of the NSW cases are regional (not Sydney) despite the Murdoch papers reporting Blue Mountains in Sydney numbers.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

ie Woolworths CEO on Facemasks (Note: I added the underline ):

CEO Update

Thursday, 23rd July 2020


An update on face coverings to our Victorian community


Dear Customers,

With the ongoing community transmissions of COVID-19 and the introduction of mandatory face coverings, we understand how unsettling and stressful this time is for many Victorians.

Face coverings

If toilet paper was the symbol of the first phase of COVID then masks seem to be symbolic of this phase. We have certainly learned a lot about face masks in the last few weeks.

In line with the updated directive from the Victorian Government earlier this week, we have now updated our policies on face coverings. We expect customers to wear a face covering when they come into any of our stores in Melbourne and Mitchell Shire.

This is true for all stores in the Group – Woolworths (including Metro), Dan Murphy’s, BWS and BIG W.

Tens of thousands of boxes of masks will start arriving in Victorian Woolworths stores this weekend for customers to buy – with a limit of one box per customer.

We’ll also provide a mask free of charge until Sunday evening if you arrive at one of our stores without a face covering.

There are some official exceptions and if you’re unable to wear a face covering for any of these reasons, we’d strongly encourage you to avoid coming in to store and order online for Delivery or Pick up (including Community Pick up which allows others to pick up on your behalf).

For details from the Victorian Government, including how to use masks, how to make your own mask, what other face coverings are acceptable and what exceptions apply, visit dhhs.vic.gov.au/coronavirus/updates.

Optional masks have been available to our team nationwide since April. Now, our teams in Melbourne and Mitchell Shire have also been directed to wear face coverings unless they have a valid exception in line with the Government's directive.

 

[tgh]

Drum Roll .. (perspective check…)

New daily record : Tested positives Worldwide for yesterday 279,057

 

[Hvr]

Out of the literally thousands of people I know, I can think of only one who works in any such industry.

I've posted this before but it is relevant here. In January I commenced a new role doing administrative work. I retained my previous part time role in an area that has lots of PT workers and has huge contact with now dangerous items including close contact with customers. I've been stood down from that role since March with no likely date of return.

The industry has now been closed for the duration, whilst JobKeeper eligible for many people it is less than they were previously paid. With the stated reduction in payments especially for part time staff it will cause even more hardship.

I'm fine and not claiming JobKeeper. However, my former colleagues are doing it hard with no prospect of a return to work in the near future.

Some of them are facing financial problems that will only be exacerbated the longer this continues. And of course, the customer base needs to be rebuilt etcetera.

Some have moved into call centre and other work and I hope that lasts.

Also, as I've said previously, this pandemic will irreparably change society and not for the better.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

PS:
Also note that Sutton has indicated that after the restriction on home visitors, that family to family transmission has dropped off. Workplace transmission is now the main driver in terms of groups..

 

[dajop]

Drum Roll .. (perspective check…)

New daily record : Tested positives Worldwide for yesterday 279,057

Of which the state of Victoria recorded 0.15% of that total, with 0.08% of the world population But doing an awful lot more testing per capita than many places.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Of which the state of Victoria recorded 0.15% of that total, with 0.08% of the world population But doing an awful lot more testing per capita than many places.

Probably more than most, rather than just many.

Plus Vic also doing more contact tracing than most places, which will also drives up "found" infections commonly known as cases. Then again we could test less like POTUS pondered on and have less cases. But of course infected will still actually be the same.

 

[Gremlin]

It might be a little more than guessing.

Look, cost was definitely the primary driver for NSW in the decision to initially cap at 450. And, ditto in the decision for NSW to move to a 'user-pays' model. Both of those decisions stripped a lot of cost away from NSW taxpayers. I don't disagree with any of that.

But there are quite a few fixed costs of the quarantine program that don't scale back when supporting 450 a day vs 350 a day. In fact, some of the fixed costs might even increase from where they were if you choose to 'redesign' certain aspects of the program. Maybe the government will end up paying more for 350 a day than it previously did for 450 a day, but the wider community might end up paying a smaller price in the long run - if you get my drift...

Report on ABC that WA might also be experiencing 'technical issues' with its quarantine program.

WA doctors fear repeat of Melbourne crisis as whistleblowers sound alarm on hotel quarantine

So issues with at least three states. From what I've been told, SA generally has its game together on this...

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Then there is this summary of expert opinion in Australia.

EXPERT REACTION: Should masks become mandatory in Melbourne?

EXPERT REACTION: Should masks become mandatory in Melbourne? As lockdown begins in Melbourne, questions are being raised about whether masks should be made mandatory in public places to help stem the rates of COVID-19, as is the case in a number of countries overseas. Below, Australian expe

www.scimex.org

Interesting most did not go for mandatory mask wearing in Melbourne.Two of the most insistent on mandatory masks were an IVF expert and the Uni of NSW Law faculty.

Very informative. Thankyou.

Personally I am in favour of mandatory facemask wearing in Victoria in the restricted LGA's due the current situation as:

• Post their opinions reported on 9th July we now know in Vic that many infected people even when they should have been isolating were out and about in community spread situations such as workplaces, shopping etc.
• Add to that the people who would have not even been presenting for testing for the same fear of loss of income reasons who are infected
• As a public health measure, like vaccinations it works best if most in the population are complying
• Workplace transmission has been on the rise
• Facemask wearing is a very obvious measure in terms of visibility of whether it is being done or not
  • It is not that inconvenient, is easy to do and is low cost
  • One of the key problems we have had of late is people doing the wrong thing, both individuals and some employers
  • The majority of people have been doing the right thing - Facemask wearing while beneficial to all should also help to minimise transmission from the minority who have been doing the wrong thing
  • Any employer who had been allowing non-facemask wearing in situations where they should have been will now be more likely to comply

 

[jakeseven7]

NSW coronavirus clusters grow as state records 19 new COVID-19 cases


NSW recorded 19 new COVID-19 cases on Thursday, as cases linked to growing Sydney clusters were reported in the Hunter region.

Nine of the 19 new cases are linked to the Thai Rock restaurant cluster at Wetherill Park in Sydney’s west, including two children in the Hunter, forcing the closure of a school and a childcare centre on Thursday.

NSW coronavirus clusters grow as state records 19 new COVID-19 cases

NSW recorded 19 new COVID-19 cases on Thursday, as cases linked to Sydney clusters were reported in the state's Hunter region.

www.smh.com.au

 

[p--and--t]

Thinking about those being regarded as selfish in not isolating, on FB people are reporting that it is taking up to four days to get an appointment for a test then up to another five days to get the result. Maybe you might go through that process once, maybe, but if in three weeks later you develop another set of symptoms, how is this the best way to combat a pandemic? Of course once positive then it is a case of selfish, and the payment kicks in, but after 9 days you have a negative and have potentially lost a fortnight income.

There are five things in that report that makes me a bit hesitant.

1. Who is making the claims (from unsubstantiated source (FakeBook))
2. When did the alleged delays occur (we all know that testing was scant and difficult 3 months ago), not today
3. Where did the alleged delays occur (getting a test in hotspots in Vic and inner city is minutes [e.g.Airport West popup average wait time 3 minutes] to get a test at one of the popups, in the country where there are few cases and the tests done by scant heavily booked GP resources vastly different)
4. What symptoms did the person have, early on priority was given to those most likely to come up positive when testing was scarce and things were very much disorganised
5. Return of results is highly variable depending on where the swabs are from and where they are sent, interstate labs are being used from some Vic sites. Many people have reported getting texts with their results in less than 24 hours. So a generalisation on the impact to the population overall can't really be made from 1, 5 10, 20 experiences.

 

[drron]

I don't follow.

With respect to the Melbourne GMMA and Mitchell as of today everyone in a supermarket has to wear a facemask. Ditto for any store, visiting chemist, the doctors etc etc

As of today everyone in any workplace, unless working from home or by themselves, has to wear a facemask.

There has been for some time the restriction that no visitors (with particular exceptions) are allowed to private dwellings.

What are these indoor private meetings that you refer to? What are these other public gatherings where people do not need to wear masks?

I mentioned supermarkets as an exception to the public places being closed eg pubs and clubs etc.
As to the private meetings those are the ones that did happen and will still happen as many do not follow the rules.And you can bet your bottom dollar that anyone who has others in their homes will be the ones that don't wear a mask then.

 

[p--and--t]

The other problem is that with the mandatory wearing of masks in Melbourne they are policing the less important times to wear a mask.Most large public indoor gatherings are in lockdown but still places like supermarkets where they are needed.But it is the indoor private meetings where most of the virus has been shared.Obviously impossible to properly enforce this area.

Realistically nobody is ever going to be able to monitor or enforce mask wearing or change behaviours within the confines of someones home so no point in even contemplating it.

At yesterday's presser the most important issue where 90% of people with symptoms were wandering around all over the place going to work for days before going for a test and then of those 53% were still going shopping wandering around going to work with symptoms after the test and while waiting for a result despite having been given strict instructions at the testing station to go home immediately and isolate and not leave the house for any reason.

In addition, there was a figure of 80% quoted of "workplace related" transmission.

Despite all the conjecture of various "experts" who rarely seem to agree on anything we have a significant number of Richard Craniums wandering around, going to work, sidling up to strangers in shops, parks etc with symptoms and at risk of passing on the virus.

I cannot accept that the mandating of wearing masks is not the most prudent urgent simple identifiable measure and importantly signal to the population that could be introduced that does not further damage the economy even further and in some way reduce the risk of these symptomatic people passing the virus on randomly through the population at large.

Any asymptomatic transmission reduction on buses, trains, trams, at work, in the supermarket wandering around with masks on now is an addition side benefit to the new restrictions

YMMV

 

[JohnM]

I posted this before on another thread but the advice from an EBM expert Dr (Daniel Reeder is not) is very much on the side of public mask wearing
Public Mask Wearing British Medical Journal

Inside Story is contrarian on many, if not most, things. They almost seem to go out of their way to be so.

While bringing in the famous parachute analogy (Study Shows Parachutes Are Totally Worthless) the BMJ piece makes a valid point about replicated and controlled trials, the quite obvious protection a parachute offers from falling out of an (airborne) aircraft derived from glaringly obvious first principles is not such a clear-cut metaphor in terms of mask-wearing for protection from/protecting others from covid-19.

(Mind you, there are some instances of people surviving falling out of aeroplanes at high altitude: Infographic: No Parachute: The Highest Falls People Survived. But I wouldn't volunteer as a subject in a double-blinded test to determine with impeccable scientific rigour the benefit of a parachute when falling out of an aeroplane - err, except if it was guaranteed to be at ground level ).

As a general principle, it is easy to see that wearing masks would mostly do no harm and could do good (physically and psychologically), in many situations outside the obvious clinical situation.

But if people don't wear masks properly, don't dispose of them appropriately, use them repeatedly and so on, benefits could be negated.

I'm not arguing for or against masks, just looking at various opinions (which is largely what they are in the absence of scientifically robust trials) and arguing for not fixating on silver bullets that don't exist - like the undelivered simplistic stream of 'world first' 'breakthroughs' in Australia on the vaccine front.