Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

[VPS]

Different viruses - AFAIK there has never been a human coronavirus vaccine (although there is one for FIP in cats that is a coronavirus)

 

[Princess Fiona]

Calling Princess Fiona and/or drron.

Does someone know why a different yearly vaccine for 3 to 4 strains of the flu can be produced every year but we will take longer for a covid vaccine? Is it because the flu strain doesn't really change that much and they don't do human trials?

There has never been a vaccine for Corona viruses. The vaccines for SARS didn’t make it past Phase 1 human trials as the illness had been controlled earlier by other means.

Flu vaccine strains only change slightly year to year and it’s more of a tweak in the manufacturing than developing an entirely new vaccine every year.

 

[get me outta here]

In June 2018, 36 hours after departing NYC via HKG and arriving in CBR I came down with Flu type A. I was sick as a dog for 10 days even having had the flu vac in April. Would not recommend that experience at all and am trying to avoid CV and flu for ever after. Although, I will do that trip again.

 

[Quickstatus]

Does someone know why a different yearly vaccine for 3 to 4 strains of the flu can be produced every year but we will take longer for a covid vaccine? Is it because the flu strain doesn't really change that much and they don't do human trials?

(Disclaimer : Sunday feeling lazy exigesis)

There are 4 types of the influenza virus. A,B,C,D. Influenza A virus was discovered in the 1930? and a vaccine was developed and first given to the military in WW2. Influenza B was discovered during WW2, and the first double vaccine of A+B was developed toward the end of WW2.

Interesting Salk the “inventor of the polio vaccine” helped create the first influenza vaccine before he went on to create the polio vaccine in the 1950s??.

There is significant influenza virus mutation (calked antigenic drift) such that each year different strains appear and the strains that go into a vaccine depends on the observed influenza outbreaks and manufacturers with national Health authorities try to predict which ones to use.

Sometimes the antigenic drift is so large (called antigenic shift) the virus is completely new with zero immunity in the population.

Of the 4 Flu viruses, A mutates the fastest, B next then C which are relatively weak viruses - only causing mild symptoms. D only affects cattle?

This year there are 4 strains in the FluVax: 2xA and 2xB.
The effectiveness of the FluVax is variable. Maybe 30-60%. There has never been a totally effective Fluvax. The first human trials of the FluVax was during WW2 when it was used in the
military.

Human trials do occur each year. But I’m not certain about the degree of testing before widespread release. The methodology of manufacturing Remain the same - eggs.

There has never been a successful coronavirus CovVax. Not sure why. And therefore no CovVax has ever been licensed. Though some CovVax has been licensed in the Veterinary World.

There is research into a Universal FluVax which is strain independent.

 

[moa999]

came down with Flu type A. I was sick as a dog for 10 days even having had the flu vac in April.

The flu virus mutates fairly rapidly which is why there is a different shot/vaccine every year based on a prediction of what might be most common, but it won't protect you from every flu.

As noted above coronavirus is a different structure and we've yet been able to develop a vaccine for the common cold, SARS or MERS - all coronavirus's of various strengths.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

I agree that the regular flu season should have a better result this year, not only because of COVID social distancing etc but also due to the higher uptake of the available vaccines plus I think the number of available vaccines is going to be nearly doubled? (Not sure of the proportional increase)

I can't seem to find national figures but I found this chart for NSW. One could presume that other states should be roughly similar. Certainly here in Victoria the flu vaccines are now hard to get indicating that uptake has been rapid.

 

[p--and--t]

I can't seem to find national figures but I found this chart for NSW. One could presume that other states should be roughly similar. Certainly here in Victoria the flu vaccines are now hard to get indicating that uptake has been rapid.

I heard the fed health minister say 2-3 days ago they have ordered a significant number of extra doses of flu vaccinations for distribution due to the surprise take up. It was, I think, in the millions, but can't recall exactly

 

[jeza]

QLD to relax some restrictions from May 2

Link to Tweet

 

[Quickstatus]

Here is some info re 2020 FluVax

https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2020/03/atagi-advice-on-seasonal-influenza-vaccines-in-2020.pdf

 

[get me outta here]

As there was a lot of urging for us all to have flu vacs, it shouldn’t have been too ‘surprising’’.

I heard the fed health minister say 2-3 days ago they have ordered a significant number of extra doses of flu vaccinations for distribution due to the surprise take up. It was, I think, in the millions, but can't recall exactly

 

[Quickstatus]

Nothing like a pandemic to get Vax rates up.

 

[Quickstatus]

Covid19 is NOT the flu

That it is definitely not.

My point is not that it is or that the response has been overcooked. But that it seems that the national response to the Flu has been a several orders magnitude less than Cov and by extension it seems acceptable that thousands have died from the Flu without much intervention apart from vaccinations and community announcements. It Is well known FluVax is not 100% effective and Herd immunity is partial, so other measures perhaps social distancing are necessary to bring the annual morbidity and mortality down.
It would be interesting to see how current measures affect influenza in 2020. Then maybe more robust mechanisms can be put in place annually to curb the Flu.

There are other transmissible diseases too
Don’t forget that over a million children die from pneumonia each year. I guess as it is not in our backyard and it can’t be transmitted , it is far from our consciousness

 

[serfty]

I can't seem to find national figures but I found this chart for NSW. One could presume that other states should be roughly similar. Certainly here in Victoria the flu vaccines are now hard to get indicating that uptake has been rapid.
...

I heard the fed health minister say 2-3 days ago they have ordered a significant number of extra doses of flu vaccinations for distribution due to the surprise take up. It was, I think, in the millions, but can't recall exactly

I guess the levelling out for a fortnight after the 7th April was because the initial supply dried up.

 

[Quickstatus]

I guess the levelling out for a week or so around the 7th April was after the initial supply dried up.

Hard to know. We were told by our pharmac_ department to hold off on vaccinations as one of the B strains only provided at most 3 month coverage. So don’t give it too early. No earlier than Late April early May was the recommendation,

Production is done in batches and monthly production volumes are based on historical volumes.

Stockpiling FluVax is not possible because of the changes in the virus over time.

I think this year the FluVax is no longer??? Made by inoculating fertilised chicken eggs. They are now made by inoculating mammalian cell cultures. So egg allergic people should be OK

 

[RooFlyer]

But that it seems that the national response to the Flu has been a several orders magnitude less than Cov and by extension it seems acceptable that thousands have died from the Flu without much else apart from vaccinations.

I think I'll have to agree with others that "acceptable" is not the right word. Maybe one could argue that the ?thousands of deaths each year from smoking-related diseases is deemed "acceptable" because smoking is not outright banned, notwithstanding the huge expenditure by the government on discouragement (and I don't buy the 'revenue taken' argument for not banning it). The huge number of death and trauma cases from road accidents is "acceptable" because driving isn't banned or restricted much more.

As to the proportional government response, COVID Vs flu, I think its relevant to note again that the response to COVID19 was in response to the situation in February/March when things were so dire in Italy etc. We still don't know what the end game will be. I think the view in the UK, Italy etc would be that the substantial restrictions and effort put in place for COVID19 compared to the flu is, if anything, too little, too late.

 

[get me outta here]

I think further up thread mentioned the B virus was not so serious(?). If it only covers for 3 months or so, if having the jab too early, can we / should we have it again?

 

[serfty]

Hard to know. We were told by our pharmac_ department to hold off on vaccinations as one of the B strains only provided at most 3 month coverage. So don’t give it too early. No earlier than Late April early May was the recommendation,

The figure is of "Doses Distributed"; that may not relate to actual usage, even if told to hold off.

 

[Quickstatus]

I think further up thread mentioned the B virus was not so serious(?). If it only covers for 3 months or so, if having the jab too early, can we / should we have it again?

Possibly, but there has not been a recommendation specifically for that.
Generally B is not as bad compared with A.

 

[Hvr]

Nothing like a pandemic to get Vax rates up.

Or for the whack job anti-vaxxers such as Novak Djokovic to come ou.

Novak Djokovic defends anti-vaxxer stance as Andy Roddick questions view

The Serb has been heavily criticised for his controversial views.

metro.co.uk

 

[Quickstatus]

The figure is of "Doses Distributed

True but the distribution is based on local ordering as well. So the vaccines don’t just keep coming in. I’m thinking they were told to hold off additional distribution for a few weeks because they did not want the FluVax to be given too early. FluVax needs to be stored properly - refrigerated so continuing incoming stocks when none is administered is prob not a good idea.
As the FluVax is made by several different manufacturers, the horizontal part won’t be due to a problem with manufacturing

(That’s my speculation about the horizontal line)