Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

[p--and--t]

However it seems that 3000 influenza per year is OK

Not really at a community level or government level.
Imagine how many of the 3000 would have been saved had there been better public health measures like current measures.

Perplexed as to why you think that is the case.

The gov spends $100'sM per year on redesigning vaccines, ordering huge supplies of heavily subsidised vaccine supplies and giving away huge numbers to those statistically most at risk accompanied by significant hospital resourcing to cope and advertising campaigns in an effort to reduce that figure as much as possible.

Perhaps it might be the case you have been accustomed and accepted where many others have not.

 

[Quickstatus]

But still thousands died. Imagine a public health measure including social distancing etc. The financial cost would have been expensive but question : is it worth spending that?

 

[p--and--t]

I'm not sure two wrongs make a right.

As Fiona and others have said Covid-19 is not the flu - in infectious capability, potential death rate, lack of vaccines, lack of prophylactics, lack of expertise and ability to wipe out a huge cross section of the population many orders of magnitude larger.


Edit: It is right to question past practices in the light of today. Maybe after the last 3 months, gov attention to preventable diseases including the flu and many other things (norovirus et al) may change for the better.

 

[Princess Fiona]

For anyone who thinks this is like seasonal flu.
From the office of National Statistics UK Gov.
Death rate this week is higher than any other week since week 1 2000

 

[jase05]

But still thousands died. Imagine a public health measure including social distancing etc. The financial cost would have been expensive but question : is it worth spending that?

The social distancing and extra hygiene absolutely has had its other benefits. I heard Dr Spurrier from SA Health say that there has only been 55 cases of the flu in SA so far and normally we are tracking at around 1800 cases

 

[Quickstatus]

The social distancing and extra hygiene absolutely has had its other benefits. I heard Dr Spurrier from SA Health say that there has only been 55 cases of the flu in SA so far and normally we are tracking at around 1800 cases

That’s why I believe this season will be the best flu season for a long time.
Difficult question is are we going to do that the same each flu season so less people die from the flu?

 

[N860CR]

I feel even more saddened that some people would be considered expendable to suit another person's financial gain. Eg US

I don’t know if I’d call it “financial gain” as such, more just people not being economically ruined, which will have much worse long term impacts on the community.

I’ve got some friends in mental health and they’re genuinely scared as to the actual outcome when this is over. We are going to have a massive increase in people losing their livelihoods, losing homes, relationships failing, potential family violence, suicide at levels not seen for a long time (if ever before). I think trump is an idiot, but I’ll give him a little credit for having an eye on the big picture (even though I think his motive is not the health of the “survivors”)

 

[jase05]

That’s why I believe this season will be the best flu season for a long time.
Difficult question is are we going to do that the same each flu season so less people die from the flu?

I think things will definitely be different going forward with things like limiting patrons in stores, work places enforcing social distancing and limiting persons in bars and cafes etc.
As a bit of a germ freak the amount of people who didn’t adhere to better hygiene practices before this pandemic is staggering. Washing hands regularly and especially after going to the toilet and things like that just comes naturally to me but it appears not so for many

 

[p--and--t]

I don’t know if I’d call it “financial gain” as such, more just people not being economically ruined, which will have much worse long term impacts on the community.

I’ve got some friends in mental health and they’re genuinely scared as to the actual outcome when this is over. We are going to have a massive increase in people losing their livelihoods, losing homes, relationships failing, potential family violence, suicide at levels not seen for a long time (if ever before). I think trump is an idiot, but I’ll give him a little credit for having an eye on the big picture (even though I think his motive is not the health of the “survivors”)

Yes I have a brother in law in the mental health area and he is very concerned.

I have never met the gent, but pretty sure the medical well being of anyone outside a small circle of 20 or so people does not cross the mind of a certain influential figure but very concerned about a couple of hundred other very wealthy individuals and how they might apply political pressure.

 

[moa999]

Only have to look at NY City (8.4m population -less than double Sydney and Melbourne) to see what could have happened had we not acted.

150,000 confirmed cases and 11,500 deaths.

Albeit I did say an article where they did 3000 antibody tests and actually found 1 in 7 had the antibodies.

 

[drron]

Though having worked in what became an Influenza ward in 2017 people have obviously forgotten how bad that year was.The flu that year was due to 3 strains.The bare majority Type A ( H3N2 ) ,type B and a ( H1N1 )pdm09-yes the Swine flu virus is still circulating.
The vaccine that year was only 33% effective and only 27% of Australians got vaccinated that year.And if hospitalised the Swine flu virus was still the most potent but fortunately the least patients of the 3.
"ICU admissions in hospitalised patients ranged by influenza type and subtype – from 8.5% of patients with
influenza B to 8.6% of patients with influenza A(H3N2) and 16.0% of patients with
influenza A(H1N1)pdm09.5"

https://www1.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/Content/ozflu-surveil-2017-final.htm#current

 

[p--and--t]

I think things will definitely be different going forward with things like limiting patrons in stores, work places enforcing social distancing and limiting persons in bars and cafes etc.
As a bit of a germ freak the amount of people who didn’t adhere to better hygiene practices before this pandemic is staggering. Washing hands regularly and especially after going to the toilet and things like that just comes naturally to me but it appears not so for many

Might be a bit hopeful for some places like bars and clubs and the cohort who have a reckless disregard for drugs alcohol etc.

If anything good comes out of this mess, hopefully it is one or more of the following: a general public upgrade to hygiene habits, awareness of what they doing and impact on others, something really good come out of the additional investment into the research of new vaccines, an improved focus on other communicable diseases that we have not been doing that good on so far, more thought given to removing the public exposure to formites etc (redesign of toilet blocks, removal of traffic light buttons, provision of sanitary wipes amongst dozens).

EDIT: Another good thing that may come out of this is jobs brought back from overseas - at least a percentage - for call centres, PPE manufacture and many other items caught up in supply chain problems during the pandemic. Also more jobs in sanitation, home delivery services etc.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Not really at a community level or government level.
Imagine how many of the 3000 would have been saved had there been better public health measures like current measures.

My guess is that this year the flu season may be the best ever. Makes us feel better I’m sure but, if true, doesn’t say something about the lack of action re last year’s influenza mortality?

There is a yes and no to to that.

Saying that there was not action and that it was ok is not correct.

There have been major programs for people to get vaccinations (the rate has been going up per year for a while now) an other measures such as not going to work etc.

Now one could argue that the government could have done more, but to indication that they were not doing anything and that 3000 (By the way the 3000 seems rubbery and is more a range of In Australia, influenza on average causes 1,500 to 3,000 deaths as deaths vary from season to season) is ok in not right.


However CV19 is clearly a much greater threat. As per the graphic by Princess Fiona many in Australia are now downplaying it die to how successful the control measures have been.

But it was seen by all to be a huge threat and so the government acted and crucially as Joe Public also believed it was a huge threat fear kicked in and the vast majority embraced those control measures better and more than they ever embraced the flu public health messages.

In addition in listening to the current advice Joe Public also pulled out their proverbial fingers and have rushed the Flu Vaccines such as never before.

So in Australia we now have the likely twin benefits of:

1. Minimal cases and deaths from CV19
2. Likely a very low number of aces with less deaths, hospitalisation and loss of work days etc

The new habits that everyone has learnt with CV19 is likely to echo down the years and will reduce damage from future flu season as well as problems such as gastro.


Finally if the government and Joe Public had acted like it was just another flu season like they did in Italy then we in Australia would be just another CV19 outcome like Italy.

All the countries that acted decisively and well have had good outcomes. Australia, New Zealand, Croatia, Greece, Vietnam. Singapore was going well till they somehow forgot about all of their non-citizens in the migrant worker blocks.

The ones that treated it like just another flu have all had grim outcomes. ie Italy, Spain, USA and the UK. And remember that the death count for all these countries will continue to go grow as there are yet no vaccines or successful treatments. If there is no seasonality to CV19 then all of those countries will have lot more weeping to do yet.

Remember too that the deaths in those countries is with them all having gone into lockdown. Just imagine what the death rate would have been if they did not all belatedly act.

 

[p--and--t]

There is a yes and no to to that.

Saying that there was not action and that it was ok is not correct.

There have been major programs for people to get vaccinations (the rate has been going up per year fora while now) an other measures such as not going to work etc.

Now one could argue that the government could have done more, but to indication that they were not doing anything and that 3000 (By the way the 3000 seems rubbery and is more a range of In Australia, influenza on average causes 1,500 to 3,000 deaths as deaths vary from season to season) is ok in not right.


However CV19 is clearly a much greater threat. As per the graphic by Princess Fiona many in Australia are now downplaying it die to how successful the control measures have been.

But it was seen by all to be a huge threat and so the government acted and crucially as Joe Public also believed it was a huge threat fear kicked in and the vast majority embraced those control measures better and more than they ever embraced the flu public health messages.

In addition in listening to the current advice Joe Public also pulled out their proverbial fingers and have rushed the Flu Vaccines such as never before.

So in Australia we now have the likely twin benefits of:

1. Minimal cases and deaths from CV19
2. Likely a very low number of aces with less deaths, hospitalisation an loss of work days etc

The new habits that everyone has learnt with CV19 is likely to echo down the years and will reduce damage from future flu season as well as problems such as gastro.


Finally if the government and Joe Public had acted like it was just another flu season like they did in Italy then we in Australia would be just another CV19 outcome like Italy.

All the countries that acted decisively and well have had good outcomes. Australia, New Zealand, Croatia, Greece, Vietnam. Singapore was going well till they somehow forgot about all of their non-citizens in the migrant worker blocks.

The ones that treated it like just another flu have all had grim outcomes. ie Italy, Spain, USA and the UK. And remember that the death count for all these countries will continue to go grow as there are yet no vaccines or successful treatments. If there is no seasonality to CV19 then all of those countries will have lot more weeping to do yet.

Remember too that the deaths in those countries is with them all having gone into lockdown. Just imagine what the death rate would have been if they did not all belatedly act.

I too was interested in the quoted figure of 3000 deaths but had no information to the contrary. I do realise it changes from year to year but I see lots of different figures bandied around on the internet.

I did note however, from the reports attached by @ddron in the last few minutes which appear to the untrained eye (could be wrong) to say only cases of flu are counted and there is no process in place to count flu deaths. This seems a strange anomaly to me

 

[Quickstatus]

The new habits that everyone has learnt with CV19

I don’t think it will last. The experience with the beaches and it’s opening and re-closing suggests that the habits are short lived.

It’s not that we overreacted re Covid. My beef is that influenza never elicited the same response.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

I don’t think it will last. The experience with the beaches and it’s opening and re-closing suggests that the habits are short lived.

It’s not that we overreacted re Covid. My beef is that influenza never elicited the same response.

Never? Spanish Flu. This also gave birth to need for worldwide cooperation with combatting a pandemic.


Post 1938 the flu entered the post-vaccine realm.

I agree that we with the flu could have been doing more in recent years, but CV19 is a much greater threat than the flu currently is and so deservedly has drawn a greater response.

 

[tgh]

 

[RooFlyer]

That’s why I believe this season will be the best flu season for a long time.
Difficult question is are we going to do that the same each flu season so less people die from the flu?

I agree that the regular flu season should have a better result this year, not only because of COVID social distancing etc but also due to the higher uptake of the available vaccines plus I think the number of available vaccines is going to be nearly doubled? (Not sure of the proportional increase)

Surely you need to re-calibrate that 'difficult question' in view of the data Princess Fiona presented in post #1,104? Covid19 is NOT the flu! And its far from finished yet. Also, beware of this other graph from PF:

This graph is pretty accurate for us here in Australia right now
View attachment 216147

 

[I love to travel]

Does someone know why a different yearly vaccine for 3 to 4 strains of the flu can be produced every year but we will take longer for a covid vaccine? Is it because the flu strain doesn't really change that much and they don't do human trials?

 

[straitman]

Does someone know why a different yearly vaccine for 3 to 4 strains of the flu can be produced every year but we will take longer for a covid vaccine? Is it because the flu strain doesn't really change that much and they don't do human trials?

Calling Princess Fiona and/or drron.