Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

[kpc]

But the need to test and isolate until a result is given is a restriction, and prevents short/same day business travel.

I booked a flight from Syd to Adl on Sun based on the SA premier saying they will.open to Sydneysiders assuming no community transmission on 0001am Sun....this is to see my parents whom I have not seen for over a year!
But his bs about testing on arrival and self isolating till the 1st test comes back negative means 1/2 of my time in Adelaide will be in isolation as I was going to return on Wed. I'm cancelling....

 

[antycbr]

I booked a flight from Syd to Adl on Sun based on the SA premier saying they will.open to Sydneysiders assuming no community transmission on 0001am Sun....this is to see my parents whom I have not seen for over a year!
But his bs about testing on arrival and self isolating till the 1st test comes back negative means 1/2 of my time in Adelaide will be in isolation as I was going to return on Wed. I'm cancelling....

Perhaps they can remake the SA tourism ad with the old sad guy, except he’s a Covid tester at the airport...

 

[lovetravellingoz]

not the months that Melbourne second wave took.

You keep going back to the second wave in Victoria., which is a pretty meaningless comparison.

Protocols, resources, staffing have all moved on. Plus second ring method was not used then. If all of this had of been used then, then the second wave would not have been what it was. Which is why it is used.

Mistakes happen, poor judgements are made. Main point is that this is realised and then improvements made. There will not be another Ruby Princess anytime soon either.


Moving forward - With daily testing of HQ staff, and testing of aircrew the likeliehood of future should be less both in terms of the number of breaches, but also in the consequences from any such leakage as the transmission chains will not have the time to grow and seed sizeable clusters. Just this one simple protocol if it had of been adopted back in March would have I believe prevented the vast majority of cases from having happened. But things are always easier in hindsight.

Time is the the friend of the virus, and denying it time to spread is our key weapon. This is why testing is so crucial.

Personally I believe that the combination of:

• testing of aircrews and daily testing of any staff exposed to CV19 probables and actuals
• the two ring method to jump on any leakage that does occur
• ongoing free symptomatic testing

as the main way that we can banish major restrictions including interstate border restrictions from being required. This includes giving everyone, including the politicians and CHO's, the confidence to be able to just get on with things as it will be known that outbreaks will be less likely, but when they do happen that they are picked up and dealt with switfly.

Eventually the vaccine should assist, and then depending on what happens with this internationally you may just see international leisure and other travel resumed. But I would not be too hopeful re 2021.

 

[Lynda2475]

You keep going back to the second wave in Victoria., which is a pretty meaningless comparison

It is relevant because we were talking about how NSW doesnt use the 2nd ring, but despite that numbers nothing like when Victoria didnt use it. NSW ability to contain Covid within 4 weeks (even as far back as Crossroads) and Croydon under 2 weeks all without 2nd ring process, shows 2nd Ring isnt a necessity, just a preference of some states.

If all states adhered to commonwealth hot spot definition, made sure HQ workers (drivers, cleaners) all had better PPE including N95 masks,
daily HQ staff testing (rapid test each with weekly nasal swab) and all states enforced official QR usage at all indoor public venues then we wouldnt need the disruption of 2nd ring and closed state borders.

You can control outbreaks by isolating close contacts and those they share a home with; 2nd ring puts people into iso who have had no contact with the positive case for 14 days, instead of treating them as the casual contacts they are.

I read lots about family members from same household testing positive which would be expected but how many of these second ring people have actually proved positive?

With the Adelaide lockdown, in the end all the positives had either worked at the hotel, worked with the hotel worker at the pizza shop or were family/household members - all close contacts. The 2nd ring cases werent reported if they existed.

Did Black Rock have non close contact cases? The cases publicised had been at Black Rock or other venues the Black Rock people visited or their family members.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Just to clarify I think 2 rings means close contact of close contacts, plus casual contacts of venues. Not casual contacts of casual contacts.

You have the case, their close contacts, the close contacts of the close contacts, plus any casual contacts of the case.

And as you say, not casual contacts of casual contacts as that would multiply numbers vastly.

Any new case may expand who needs to be in the two rings.

The case is isolated (as is positive), close contacts quarantine for 14 days. The others quarantine till a negative test. This is crucial as it stops possible infected people mixing with others. Remember the virus can only jump to a new host if it is close enough to do so.

With the casual contacts they may be found by the contact tracers using such things as interviews with case and close contacts, venue registrations or ticket sales, myki cards etc AND also just by public appeals for people who had been at an exposure site at a given time range to get tested.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

It is relevant because we were talking about how NSW doesnt use the 2nd ring, but despite that numbers nothing like when Victoria didnt use it. NSW ability to contain Covid within 4 weeks (even as far back as Crossroads) without 2nd ring process, shows 2nd Ring isnt a necessity.

You would have a point if the only difference was not using the second ring method in at the start of the second wave. But it is not the only difference. Not realising the new strains were bubbling away was the bigger problem that plus higher Ro households and a population that were not embracing testing, quarantine and isolation for a raft of reasons and all of this then overwhelmed an undersized and ill-equipped contact tracing team. And that also that Vic successfully ended the first wave without the second ring method.

The second ring method was brought in at the end of the second wave when clusters kept popping up, and the second ring method was key reason for finisihing oft swiftly the tail of the second wave that till then was lingering on.

If both the second ring method and daily testing of at risk staff had been used much earlier on then in my view we would only have had ripples rather than waves. The various health officials have learnt and adapted as they have gone along, and so I am not at all critical of it not being done then.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Did Black Rock have non close contact cases? The cases publicised had been at Black Rock or other venues the Black Rock people visited or their family members.

There were cases such as the fish and chip employee, and the Vermont South man.

Though again by speedily getting people to quarantine, or quarantine till a negative test you chop off the transmission chains. You are preventing the mixing and proximity to new hosts (people). With mixing you get unknow infections and unknown transmission chains. ie the multiple EPIC clusters that were grouped as The North metro community outbreak where there were unknow common ancestors causing clusters to keep popping up, but which the second ring swiftly ceased.

With Black Rock cluster that many in the broader population mainly had good mask habits probably helped as well.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

It is relevant because we were talking about how NSW doesnt use the 2nd ring, but despite that numbers nothing like when Victoria didnt use it. NSW ability to contain Covid within 4 weeks (even as far back as Crossroads) and Croydon under 2 weeks all without 2nd ring process, shows 2nd Ring isnt a necessity, just a preference of some states.

If all states adhered to commonwealth hot spot definition, made sure HQ workers (drivers, cleaners) all had better PPE including N95 masks,
daily HQ staff testing (rapid test each with weekly nasal swab) and all states enforced official QR usage at all indoor public venues then we wouldnt need the disruption of 2nd ring and closed state borders.

You can control outbreaks by isolating close contacts and those they share a home with; 2nd ring puts people into iso who have had no contact with the positive case for 14 days, instead of treating them as the casual contacts they are.

I read lots about family members from same household testing positive which would be expected but how many of these second ring people have actually proved positive?

With the Adelaide lockdown, in the end all the positives had either worked at the hotel, worked with the hotel worker at the pizza shop or were family/household members - all close contacts. The 2nd ring cases werent reported if they existed.

Did Black Rock have non close contact cases? The cases publicised had been at Black Rock or other venues the Black Rock people visited or their family members.

I think some have got to third generation which is 2nd ring but I’m not sure the last time this has happened and whether it happened recently outside of Northern Beaches

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

NSW and Victorian health authorities have extended dates for people who might have been exposed to a mutant strain of COVID-19.

NSW Health has now ramped up efforts to track down people who stayed at the Auckland Pullman until the January 24, while Victoria’s warning period goes until January 25.

Victoria has also added earlier dates to their timeframe, which now stretches back to anyone who was at the hotel from January 9, instead of the 14th.

The exposure times expand on the advice from Australia’s deputy chief medical officer Professor Michael Kidd earlier today, who only outlined exposure until January 14.

Professor Kidd earlier revealed a handful of people who completed quarantine at the New Zealand hotel, where the highly infectious South African leaked to three people, travelled to Australia.

“We have been advised that a small number of people who were in hotel quarantine in the Pullman Hotel in Auckland at the same time as these other cases have since travelled to Australia on green zone flights, before the pause was introduced on Monday afternoon,” Prof Kidd said.

“All these people are being followed up by the health authorities in the state where they landed.

“We know that 12 people who were in quarantine at the Pullman Hotel have arrived in Sydney. Three of these people have travelled on to Hong Kong and the authorities there have been advised.

“Two of these people travelled on to Queensland and the authorities there have also been advised.

“The others are all being followed up in New South Wales and are being tested.

“If I receive additional information about further arrivals, I will provide further advice.”

From news covid blog

 

[RAM]

Ultimately, it is the Cth who allowed the charter flights and AO players to come in! The Cth could have refused visas. They could withheld landing rights. They could have refused to allow people in over and above existing caps.

The Cth obviously agrees, to some extent, that the AO was a valuable and worthwhile undertaking in the best interests of Australia.

AO raised with Scomo by a 'close friend' & response was 'Great idea, do it.' Nothing put on paper until much later.

However that does not suit the media narrative.

 

[RAM]

Trying to draw analogous comparisons for vaccine rollout between a country without a universal healthcare system and one with such a system, is in my mind bound to fail.

Black Americans have very good reasons for not fully trusting the US Dept of Health & the CDC.

A forty year undisclosed trial was inflcted on them leading to blindness, paralysis, death etc. Two of today's Big Pharma companies (their predecessor companies) were involved. Nobody was ever charged let alone jailed it seems - so perhaps you can understand why American Blacks (& others) have doubts about Govts and Big Pharma.

The Washington Post vaguely referred to this a few days ago but did include a link through to a little more information. Over 90% of references to it have been sanitised to justify this and other equally unethical studies.

Only took close to 40 years for one of thousands of people who knew about it before one put their career at risk & spoke out.

fueled by historical abuses like the Tuskegee syphilis study and the ongoing lack of access to medical care in Baltimore’s communities of color.

“I don’t trust the government; I haven’t trusted the government for a long time,” Womack said. “I like Biden too, love him, but he hasn’t done anything either.”

The Tuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis in the Negro Male, was an unethical natural history study conducted between 1932 and 1972 by the United States Public Health Service and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Wikipedia
Funding: U.S. Public Health Service (PHS)
Start date: 1932
End date: 1972

The Rationalization of Unethical Research: Revisionist ...​

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › pmc › articles › PMC4568718

Two studies, widely condemned in the 1970s and 1980s—the Tuskegee study of men with untreated syphilis and the New Zealand study of women with ...

Bill Jenkins, Tuskegee Syphilis Study Whistleblower, Dies ...​

www.the-scientist.com › news-opinion › bill-jenkins--tu...


Mar 4, 2019 — A government scientist, he tried to end the unethical study, was unsuccessful, and then spent his career combating injustice in healthcare.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Another day of zero local cases. - checked Vic Qld NSW and SA Twitter.

 

[RAM]

Why are Australian State Govts & the Federal Govt treating CV with such secrecy?

The National Cabinet was a renaming of the previous meetings so that no documents presented or discussed would be ever made public.

The details of which hotels are being used as either 'medi' or 'quarantine' hotels is also kept hidden. As many posts in this and other threads have observed.

Meanwhile in NZ, as a risk minimisation technique, they overtly advertise & protect the hotels they use. A similar approach would have prevented so many of the 'escapes' where Sydney led the way last year with up to several on a single day, or the one overnight where a homeless man attempted to enter a Collins St (I think it was) hotel only to be arrested for attempting entry to a quarantine facility. Now he will be quarantined for 14 days. Ironic - no?

 

[Must...Fly!]

It's not exactly difficult to determine which hotels are being used for quarantine in Melbourne.

Four Points Docklands
Pan Pacific
Park Royal MEL Airport
Novotel South Wharf
Novotel Collins St
Holiday Inn Flinders Lane
Grand Chancellor
Hyatt
Pullman x2

Off the top of my head

 

[dajop]

It's not exactly difficult to determine which hotels are being used for quarantine in Melbourne.

Four Points Docklands
Pan Pacific
Park Royal MEL Airport
Novotel South Wharf
Novotel Collins St
Holiday Inn Flinders Lane
Grand Chancellor
Hyatt
Pullman x2

Off the top of my head

Also saw 2 skybuses unloading (with 8 police officers and half or dozen or so health officials) in Flinders Lane at the Intercontinental.

 

[Pushka]

Why are Australian State Govts & the Federal Govt treating CV with such secrecy?

The National Cabinet was a renaming of the previous meetings so that no documents presented or discussed would be ever made public.

The details of which hotels are being used as either 'medi' or 'quarantine' hotels is also kept hidden. As many posts in this and other threads have observed.

Meanwhile in NZ, as a risk minimisation technique, they overtly advertise & protect the hotels they use. A similar approach would have prevented so many of the 'escapes' where Sydney led the way last year with up to several on a single day, or the one overnight where a homeless man attempted to enter a Collins St (I think it was) hotel only to be arrested for attempting entry to a quarantine facility. Now he will be quarantined for 14 days. Ironic - no?

View attachment 239507

Never been a secret in SA. Quite the opposite.

 

[N860CR]

Why are Australian State Govts & the Federal Govt treating CV with such secrecy?

Because it’s far more about politics than it is a virus. Facts don’t help support many of the federal and state governments positions, so keeping it under a veil of secrecy helps to keep the masses under control.

 

[Lynda2475]

 

[RooFlyer]

Why are Australian State Govts & the Federal Govt treating CV with such secrecy?

The National Cabinet was a renaming of the previous meetings so that no documents presented or discussed would be ever made public.

The details of which hotels are being used as either 'medi' or 'quarantine' hotels is also kept hidden. As many posts in this and other threads have observed.

Groan ... although I love a conspiracy, or two, or three ...!

* Cabinet documents are not held back from the public forever. In fact, the National Archives has been progressively shortening the period they are non-public.

* Gee, its not that hard to tell which hotels are quarantine ones is it? Like, all the guards around, the signs (and sometimes fences) around them, the newspaper coverage and photos of arrivals etc. Did the government forget to cover them all with an invisibility cloak?

What other failed government conspiracies have you uncovered?

 

[jakeseven7]

Groan ... although I love a conspiracy, or two, or three ...!

* Cabinet documents are not held back from the public forever. In fact, the National Archives has been progressively shortening the period they are non-public.

* Gee, its not that hard to tell which hotels are quarantine ones is it? Like, all the guards around, the signs (and sometimes fences) around them, the newspaper coverage and photos of arrivals etc. Did the government forget to cover them all with an invisibility cloak?

What other failed government conspiracies have you uncovered?

The Russians created Covid with China in Wuhan didn’t you know