Bonza Airline Discussion

[Saab34]

Depends if Flair can get a buyer to dilute what's remaining of 777's stake in the carrier. Flair have actively stated they are looking at divorcing 777.

Flair reportedly splits from 777 Partners as Bonza saga continues

777 Partners, which is believed to have held around 24 per cent of Flair, has seen its stake reduced to almost nothing, according to sources cited in the Australian Financial Review. The Miami-based venture capital firm is also a part owner of Bonza, which entered voluntary administration this week.

australianaviation.com.au

I understand the Flair debt is financed by 777, something like $500m+ has been reported across a few outlets.

 

[equus]

ordinarily it’s 90/120 days for mastercard and visa. However in cases where the transaction date ks for supply in the future, you *may* have up to 540 days to request a chargeback.

For non-supply of services (which this would be) Visa is 120 days past date services were supposed to be supplied, not to exceed 540 days past transaction date. Most unlikely any Bona ticket could possibly have been bought more than 500 days ago.

 

[UP4014]

Was the airports trying to secure the aircraft after all.

Bonza's aircraft leave the country after fleet repossessed

"Bruce", the first of Bonza's repossessed 737-Max 8 aircraft, takes off from the Sunshine Coast to an unknown overseas destination after negotiations to keep the budget airline in the air failed.

www.abc.net.au

 

[justinbrett]

I think those (including me) affected by the December cancellations look back in retrospect on it as a blessing in disguise.

The 3 month wait to get a refund, although it did come eventually, was enough to prove this was a very sick airline and you probably shouldn't be giving them a cent of your money unless you're absolutely desperate. Even back then you couldn't contact support to enquire about your refund - webchat was the only method and you waited 6+ hours to get an unsatisfactory response. I can't imagine the hell pax are going through now.

 

[dajop]

Most unlikely any Bona ticket could possibly have been bought more than 500 days ago.

Most unlikely? No. Instead impossible. From this thread, tickets started selling on 27 Jan 2023. The whole thing collapsed in a heap on 30 April. That's only 459 days.

 

[DC3]

Was the airports trying to secure the aircraft after all.

Bonza's aircraft leave the country after fleet repossessed

"Bruce", the first of Bonza's repossessed 737-Max 8 aircraft, takes off from the Sunshine Coast to an unknown overseas destination after negotiations to keep the budget airline in the air failed.

www.abc.net.au

Oh. All Gone, gone, gone.

 

[ruben38]

For non-supply of services (which this would be) Visa is 120 days past date services were supposed to be supplied, not to exceed 540 days past transaction date. Most unlikely any Bona ticket could possibly have been bought more than 500 days ago.

Would we need to wait until the flight has been officially cancelled though? At the moment I haven't received official notification that my June flight won't be going. Obviously it won't, but to dispute the transaction would I need to be able to prove that the service won't be supplied?

 

[Saab34]

So would insolvency insurance still possibly be an option for those with future flights? They have not declared that yet.

If it’s an option, buy it asap.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Would we need to wait until the flight has been officially cancelled though? At the moment I haven't received official notification that my June flight won't be going. Obviously it won't, but to dispute the transaction would I need to be able to prove that the service won't be supplied?

I think you have a right as the consumer to lodge the chargeback. It’s then for the merchant to challenge that.

I can’t understand how the merchant could challenge that here, given they have no planes to fly the service.

 

[equus]

I think you have a right as the consumer to lodge the chargeback. It’s then for the merchant to challenge that.

I can’t understand how the merchant could challenge that here, given they have no planes to fly the service.

At this point in time, it becomes a bit of a tricky one.

In theory, you can't lodge a chargeback for a service not provided when the date for provision is in the future. The administrators are theoretically trying to find someone to buy the business as a somewhat going concern - which includes those future bookings.

If the merchant challenged the chargeback on the basis that the time for supply was still in the future, they would win. However, it is unlikely that they would bother to respond, as there will be thousands of chargebacks being lodged, and the administrators are unlikely to have the time or resources to do anything about it.

If they manage to sell the business, or enter a DOCA, then someone may challenge it. If, on the other hand and much more likely, they go into liquidation, then you are fine to chargeback, as the service will never be able to be supplied.

 

[MooTime]

If the merchant challenged the chargeback on the basis that the time for supply was still in the future, they would win. However, it is unlikely that they would bother to respond, as there will be thousands of chargebacks being lodged, and the administrators are unlikely to have the time or resources to do anything about it.

So as I understand your statement that if the merchant doesn't respond, for whatever reason they choose not to, the matter not dealt with, no charge back is initiated?

Seems an easy way out.... Don't wanna repay the monies, just don't respond.

Shirley not the car by law?

 

[equus]

So as I understand your statement that if the merchant doesn't respond, for whatever reason they choose not to, the matter not dealt with, no charge back is initiated?

No, if you initiate a chargeback by request to your bank (card issuer) they will determine if it has a valid reason. You may fail at this point if the service supply was in the future. If you get past that, then the issuer sends the chargeback to the merchant acquirer, and receives the funds at that point in time.
The merchant acquirer debits the merchant (or wears it if the merchant has no money), and sends it to the merchant who can dispute the chargeback. If no dispute is made, then the chargeback stands, and you end up with your money back.

 

[Harrison_133]

The first creditors meeting took place today:

About 20 parties, including investors, airlines and travel companies, are in talks to save Bonza, administrators have revealed at the first creditors' meeting for the embattled airline.

The ABC understands the airline's debts total more than $116 million, including $77 million in loans, $16 million owed to trade creditors, $10.5 million to airports, $4.6 million to the plane lessors, $5.3 million in employee wages and entitlements, and $58,000 to customers for cancelled flights.

Source: Bonza administrators tell first creditors' meeting they are hopeful airline can be saved - ABC News

 

[JessicaTam]

The first creditors meeting took place today:


Source: Bonza administrators tell first creditors' meeting they are hopeful airline can be saved - ABC News

I wonder if the $58,000 owed to "customers for cancelled flights" is historic and does not count the flights yet to be cancelled? I.e. those customers holding credit vouchers.

 

[tcasfail]

I wonder if the $58,000 owed to "customers for cancelled flights" is historic and does not count the flights yet to be cancelled? I.e. those customers holding credit vouchers.

the quote is actually wrong. It’s 58,000 customers…
They basically said it includes everything, into the future

 

[MEL_Traveller]

No, if you initiate a chargeback by request to your bank (card issuer) they will determine if it has a valid reason. You may fail at this point if the service supply was in the future. If you get past that, then the issuer sends the chargeback to the merchant acquirer, and receives the funds at that point in time.
The merchant acquirer debits the merchant (or wears it if the merchant has no money), and sends it to the merchant who can dispute the chargeback. If no dispute is made, then the chargeback stands, and you end up with your money back.

Hmmm. I wonder if there is a different angle? That of Australian Consumer law? Ie, you purchased a product that is not fit for purpose? Or that you wouldn’t have purchased had you known of the quality? I mean, who would purchase a ticket now, or in fact ever again… with bonza given their track record? Would you have purchased a ticket at the time had you known they were likely to have all their planes seized?

So I reckon there’s an argument you are already due for a refund, regardless that it’s a future supply. People need some certainty of their travel plans in order to book accommodation, etc. Bonza can’t provide that certainty.

 

[Quickstatus]

I

Bonza can’t provide that certainty.

It does not have any aircraft, full stop

 

[ruben38]

Hmmm. I wonder if there is a different angle? That of Australian Consumer law? Ie, you purchased a product that is not fit for purpose? Or that you wouldn’t have purchased had you known of the quality? I mean, who would purchase a ticket now, or in fact ever again… with bonza given their track record? Would you have purchased a ticket at the time had you known they were likely to have all their planes seized?

So I reckon there’s an argument you are already due for a refund, regardless that it’s a future supply. People need some certainty of their travel plans in order to book accommodation, etc. Bonza can’t provide that certainty.

Well that was rather fruitless. Just off the phone to Ubank. Maybe I'm with the wrong bank (as I said it's a debit card, but it is Visa so I would've thought it should have that protection). Anyway they said their disputes team have specifically been told they can't provide chargeback disputes for Bonza, and the only recourse is to call the creditors line with the administrators. A bit disappointing! But not unexpected I guess.

 

[A321]

I had no issues with ING with a chargeback with Tigerair, back in 2020(?)

 

[Saab34]

So they are looking at buyers with anticipation they could restart operations ‘in four months’

What are these people smoking? Now let’s cycle back to the year 2001….