Business Class Discussion - Seats/IFE/General Thoughts etc

[Deleted member 29185]

So when did they put it back on again because it is on there now.

Just check the menu on their website.

No one has said spirits aren't there now. Just that they were taken off the menu in August last year. They remained off for a very short period of time (if you do a search of AFF you'll no doubt find the exact date mentioned ). It seems the backlash of that pitiful decision was very quickly heard!

 

[EuroKick]

Currently sitting in the syd lounge, and I notice they've installed the Melbourne lounge leaf roof upstairs.

 

[MichaelD]

I don't think Virgin actually "get" that the inconsistency is killing them.

Virgin:
Your plane might have J, or it might not. You might know in advance but you probably won't. When you have the IMPUDENCE to complain about their fake J, after 21 days if you're lucky you'll get a credit shell for a trivial amount of $ back. THAT'S your reward for ignoring the $79 sale fare and buying the $530 business fare. Makes you feel pretty stupid, doesn't it?

You might get a J meal if you fly between 6:35pm and 6:36pm on days of the month which are prime numbers. Except if the caterers forgot. Mostly you'll get a snack which WILL leave you hungry. If by some miracle you get an actual MEAL, it'll be like they've taken Qantas Y meals and whacked them on purple trays. Don't forget - you could always pick something from the ever-shrinking economy menu, if they let you. Best to eat up in the lounge.

cf Qantas:
You buy Business, you get Business. You get a Business seat ALWAYS. You ALWAYS get a drink, in a glass, before you take off. You ALWAYS get a hot towel. You ALWAYS get fed and watered well and the presentation of your food will be superb and make you WANT to eat it.
If something goes wrong with your flight, Qantas will be there for you and will proactively fix it.


Example:
ABX-SYD last Friday - Virgin. Flexi fare. No J on this plane - that's fine. Have taken this flight every week for many weeks last year. Despite always getting the same wrap, it was at least a decent feed which didn't leave you hungry at the end of the flight. Had a 3 month break from taking the flight. Was very hungry as no time to eat at work.
No more wrap as "it's not meal time". Instead, a worse than QantasLink offering for "snack". I could have bought a wrap I suppose...but it sure made me feel stupid for buying the Flexi fare.

SYD-MEL last Friday - Qantas. J.
The ABX-SYD was late, but I was able to check in, just needed to carry on my luggage instead of checking it. (That's OK, people can admire my beautiful Platinum tags since I'm such a DYKWIA.)

Got to the lounge and they announced *several times* that there was a problem with the flight and it would be delayed and sans catering. I could have changed flights, but chose to partake of the island dining (very nice) and was now sated.
Got on board. The captain explained what had happened to the flight (leaking hydraulics, had to change plane), apologised for the delay and apologised for the lack of catering. No problem. I had been prepared for no catering.

Turns out they had managed to load refreshment catering, so I got a Qantas J "snack" which was a fantastic feed, and left me even fuller than when I left the lounge.

The CSM went out of her way to apologise to us in J, and the staff were terrific.

Were there problems? Yes
Were they professionally handled? Yes
Was I kept informed? Yes
Was I satisfied with the flight? You betcha.


And THAT'S why I'm back to 90% Qantas 10% Virgin. I am happy to spend the extra money for Qantas J because I am going to get a consistent product.

Virgin have had their chance with J. They've blown it. They don't need to make the product cheaper. They need to make it CONSISTENT.

 

[pauly7]

I must say for the last 6 or so months I've been flitting around all the carriers J / premium offerings both domestically and internationally.

I too, like most people after the initial excitement of DJ have started drifting back to QF. Lots of little reasons more than a couple of big ones... If I had to bundle them up it into broad buckets it would be the following that have me starting to think my flirting with DJ might be a passing fad!....:

1) Reliability.
DJ just haven't got this sorted yet. I feel nervous flying them when time is critical. With QF I know they will bend over backwards to make sure I get there / make my connection and if something bad happens they are there to fix it. Always. I just don't get that level of caring from DJ. I feel I really have to look after myself with them. QF I trust more.

2) Service.
I have given DJ a long leash as they try to drop the LCC tag but beginning to get impatient. Although the stupid jokes have for large part been wiped out I still just get the feeling they are paid 10 bucks an hour to smile, serve everyone as humanly quickly as possible at the bare minimum then scuttle back to the galley to gossip. QF have a deeper understanding of service and seem to have lifted this further over the last 6 months. QF staff seem much happier these days and just go that extra mile. Always topping up my drink or changing my restricted fare flight DJ lounge staff drive me nuts, either their systems are rubbish and feed them incorrect information consistently or they are just mentally challenged. See many posts about 'When and how to call a flight'....

3) Hard product and food
Ok so I don't love 737s. Of any airline. But DJ's new seats are hard. Very hard. The very '2011' accent colour scheme is already starting to date. The IFE is MIA. The food is really really average and the lounge food is only a few grades better than the on board stuff (Hot dogs?!?!). Conversely QF J food has been really good recently with lots more variation.


So yea I'm not ruling DJ out completely yet but I am starting to skew back to QF... I just keep wondering to myself how many more chances do I give DJ (especially now they price pretty much the same as QF!!!)

What to do.....?!

 

[MichaelD]

What to do.....?!

My current solution is;

1. I no longer use Virgin to get anywhere time critical.

2. I will only pick Virgin over Qantas on specific routes where they have a better offering than Qantas.

eg Virgin 737-800 vs Qantas 737-400: will pick Virgin, so long as there are multiple Virgin back-up flights with J cabins in case of a "PE substitution incident".
BNE-MEL is one such potential sector for me (so long as it's not a time critical flight).
MEL-OOL is another (Virgin has J, Jetstar...doesn't).
MEL-SYD-PER return on the A330 - I use this [flexi + free upgrade to J or flexi + points upgrade to J] - always leave plenty of time for SNAFUs, but when you do get the actual product, it is very good indeed and extremely good value.
There's also a late DRW-MEL flight on Sundays which is useful to me which Qantas can't match.
Finally, Virgin Jet (E190) vs QantasLink Dash 8 - I will choose the Virgin flight.

3. I no longer bother with Virgin for the bulk of my flying - MEL/SYD - I just don't want the inconsistency. This can be a great leg on Virgin, or it can be awful. It's never awful on Qantas.

 

[TonyHancock]

3. I no longer bother with Virgin for the bulk of my flying - MEL/SYD - I just don't want the inconsistency. This can be a great leg on Virgin, or it can be awful. It's never awful on Qantas.

My experience with QF flying MEL-SYD return this year has been a bit on the ordinary side. Admittedly I have only done this journey three times with QF, but the experience on 5 of the 6 sectors was poor. I have a better hit rate with DJ/VA, but I guess I don't fly as much as many to get a truer experience.

So for me I expect QF to be awful, and DJ/VA to bee good.

 

[Fruitcake]

I don't think Virgin actually "get" that the inconsistency is killing them.

Virgin:
Your plane might have J, or it might not. You might know in advance but you probably won't. When you have the IMPUDENCE to complain about their fake J, after 21 days if you're lucky you'll get a credit shell for a trivial amount of $ back. THAT'S your reward for ignoring the $79 sale fa

This is a huge point. Aircraft subs happen to any airline but the odd decision not to squeeze a couple of rows of J into the -700s must be a nightmare for every party involved - flight ops, customer services, ground staff, and most of all us pax! Ironically, if they'd stuck with offering J on the 737-700s then they would have less of a problem (after all J in the front two rows of a DJ 737-700 would be pretty much equivalent to the QF 734 business class product, albeit in an aircraft that's probably 10-15 years younger). An aircraft I was on was subbed late last week and I'd have been happy to stay with the original flight time had I been able to receive J service. I guess the problem with that approach is it's saying that DJ only needs to be as good as QF but competitive realities mean that's probably true, unfortunately.

FWIW, had I needed to stay on the original flight I was offered cash refund of the difference between J class and the Flexi fare (although I didn't ask what bucket - hopefully not the highest, but I suspect I'd be hoping in vain).

 

[markis10]

This is a huge point. Aircraft subs happen to any airline but the odd decision not to squeeze a couple of rows of J into the -700s must be a nightmare for every party involved - flight ops, customer services, ground staff, and most of all us pax! Ironically, if they'd stuck with offering J on the 737-700s then they would have less of a problem (after all J in the front two rows of a DJ 737-700 would be pretty much equivalent to the QF 734 business class product, albeit in an aircraft that's probably 10-15 years younger). .

The 700s are on their way out of the fleet, no point fitting J!

 

[Fruitcake]

The 700s are on their way out of the fleet, no point fitting J!

Ah, thanks. In the eyes of DJ's reputational risk people, withdrawal probably can't happen fast enough,

 

[serfty]

The 700s are on their way out of the fleet, no point fitting J!

Obviously the sooner such happens the better, but they need to not use them on routes where business is being sold.

How long before the last 73G leaves the fleet?

Posted on a wing and a prayer ...

 

[Fruitcake]

I just dug up the investor presentation from January, they've neglected to split out the 73G and 73H fleet, grouping them all under '737NG'. But it does say between Dec-11 and Jun-13 they'll accept 17 new 737s and retire/return 14. I think there's 11 73Gs active at the moment so this theoretically covers all of them.

 

[MichaelD]

My experience with QF flying MEL-SYD return this year has been a bit on the ordinary side. Admittedly I have only done this journey three times with QF, but the experience on 5 of the 6 sectors was poor.

Curious to know about your experiences here (+ cabin class). I basically fly this twice a week in J and haven't been able to fault anything with the offering in a long, long time.

 

[lovestotravel]

I must say for the last 6 or so months I've been flitting around all the carriers J / premium offerings both domestically and internationally.

I too, like most people after the initial excitement of DJ have started drifting back to QF. Lots of little reasons more than a couple of big ones... If I had to bundle them up it into broad buckets it would be the following that have me starting to think my flirting with DJ might be a passing fad!....:

So yea I'm not ruling DJ out completely yet but I am starting to skew back to QF... I just keep wondering to myself how many more chances do I give DJ (especially now they price pretty much the same as QF!!!)

What to do.....?!

This is exactly how I feel and sums up the how VA sits at the moment with several people.

As I have said before it's like a hot girl/guy with no personality.... Great for the first few months until the novelty wears off.

 

[straitman]

This is exactly how I feel and sums up the how VA sits at the moment with several people.

As I have said before it's like a hot girl/guy with no personality.... Great for the first few months until the novelty wears off.

One downer I have just discovered. Booked MEL-AKL on an Air NZ code share and cannot do seat allocations. Tried ringing DJ and ANZ to no avail.

 

[greenfish]

One downer I have just discovered. Booked MEL-AKL on an Air NZ code share and cannot do seat allocations. Tried ringing DJ and ANZ to no avail.

Had this at Christmas - compounded by 2 booking refs, 1 flexi for me, 4 saver for the rest of the family. Despite numerous requests (DJ Platinum line, twice in the lounge, once to NZ when at airport 5 hours early), the bookings weren't linked, so when we checked in we were at opposite ends of the plane. Eventually ended up together but right at the back.

 

[maninblack]

My current solution is;

1. I no longer use Virgin to get anywhere time critical.

2. I will only pick Virgin over Qantas on specific routes where they have a better offering than Qantas.

eg Virgin 737-800 vs Qantas 737-400: will pick Virgin, so long as there are multiple Virgin back-up flights with J cabins in case of a "PE substitution incident".
BNE-MEL is one such potential sector for me (so long as it's not a time critical flight).
MEL-OOL is another (Virgin has J, Jetstar...doesn't).
MEL-SYD-PER return on the A330 - I use this [flexi + free upgrade to J or flexi + points upgrade to J] - always leave plenty of time for SNAFUs, but when you do get the actual product, it is very good indeed and extremely good value.
There's also a late DRW-MEL flight on Sundays which is useful to me which Qantas can't match.
Finally, Virgin Jet (E190) vs QantasLink Dash 8 - I will choose the Virgin flight.

3. I no longer bother with Virgin for the bulk of my flying - MEL/SYD - I just don't want the inconsistency. This can be a great leg on Virgin, or it can be awful. It's never awful on Qantas.

You are spot on. I have been flying VA since they introduced domestic J and up until a week ago and I have seen very little improvement in the service standard or consistency. They still look, feel and taste like a LCC from go to woe. On my last return trip I encountered rude and ignorant ground staff, lousy food in the lounge, lovely staff on board, okay meal service, bad seat and IFE, some bags out first and some near last, then on return leg, lovely ground staff, no lounge, no priority boarding, terrible cobbled together "meal", bad seat and IFE, klutzy but friendly service onboard, bags out fast. Not a quality product allround.

 

[under the radar]

This is exactly how I feel and sums up the how VA sits at the moment with several people.

As I have said before it's like a hot girl/guy with no personality.... Great for the first few months until the novelty wears off.

....but isnt that what the Virgin 'brand' is all about??? it was created by a british eccentric who surrounds himself with hot(?) girls at every public appearance!!! every time this guy appears on tv i immediately change channels because i cant tolerate him trying to construct a sentence... sadly VIRGIN australia will be 'guilty by association'

 

[lovestotravel]

I had 2 x QF flights on the weekend, just in Y... It just feels more "homely" and very different to VA...

Even in Y it almost feels better than J on VA, so that's saying lots about VA....

You get a decent meal, a drink, IFE, yes it's an overhead screen (in most cases) but it's still nice to watch the news/comedy/rubbish they have on....

No carts trying to sell food/drinks etc etc.....

VA - You need to improve your game fast or you are going to lose the Qantas customers you have gained....

 

[lovestotravel]

....but isnt that what the Virgin 'brand' is all about??? it was created by a british eccentric who surrounds himself with hot(?) girls at every public appearance!!! every time this guy appears on tv i immediately change channels because i cant tolerate him trying to construct a sentence... sadly VIRGIN australia will be 'guilty by association'

No, Virgin America (domestic) is vastly different to Virgin Australia (domestic)

Same seats on all aircraft
Same IFE on all aircraft
Same meal service on all aircraft

Consistency is the key!

 

[TonyHancock]

Curious to know about your experiences here (+ cabin class). I basically fly this twice a week in J and haven't been able to fault anything with the offering in a long, long time.

All J and fwiw all connecting to or from international flights from SYD. 5 out of 6 fails on priority boarding. 3 out of 6 734 flights, so rubbish seats. Surly crew on 4 out of 6. Food was pretty much irrelevant to me as was IFE. On such short flights and after/before international long haul I'm really not bothered by either. I do, however, appreciate that others do want a decent feed and IFE.

Maybe I have just been unlucky to be on QF400 three times this year!!! As I posted, I don't fly domestically that much, and don't see myself as a particularly frequent flyer, but the VA/DJ experience has been consistently better, from priority boarding, through seat comfort, and definitely to crew.

I did fly QF in Y to AKL and the crew and service was much better than the QF domestic J service I have received this year.