China travel bans from Late 2022

[RooFlyer]

If you disagree - what is your evidence?

That requirements for Covid testing on flights from China isn’t racially based?

Not easy to prove a negative as I dare say you know. He made the affirmative claim. How about you prove it?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Second paragraph - "the Protocols are guidance". They are not enforceable without the backing of some form of regulation. That is what nobody seems to be able to find.

I see what you mean, but the context is important here. While it is guidance, the sentence goes on to sy some elements 'must' be complied with as a minimum, and others that 'should' be complied with as best practice.

This does not mean the mandatory requirements are voluntary or optional.

 

[Mr H]

This does not mean the mandatory requirements are voluntary or optional.

Actually that is exactly what it means.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Actually that is exactly what it means.

A mandatory requirement is not voluntary.

Part of the reason why they are described as guidelines is that they are not exhaustive in and of themselves they need to be read in conjunction with multiple other pieces of policy and health advice.

This is to avoid confusion or over-reliance on the guidelines as the sole source.

 

[Mr H]

A mandatory requirement is not voluntary.

Part of the reason why they are described as guidelines is that they are not exhaustive in and of themselves they need to be read in conjunction with multiple other pieces of policy and health advice.

This is to avoid confusion or over-reliance on the guidelines as the sole source.

Yes, but it isn't mandatory - it is guidance that it not supported by regulation - therefore not enforceable. Unless you can show me the regulation...

Some parts of the guidance were like 'definitely should do this', and some parts of the guidance were more like 'could do this if you feel like it'. But none of it was mandatory.

I am surprised that you are still clinging to this. You have already said it is "not comparing apples with apples". The most striking part of it for me was that you said you thought it was unfair that you had to provide a negative test when it applied to you going on a cruise (you have subsequently edited your post so I can't quote it), whereas when it comes to Chinese people your thinking is that '"I can’t think of anyone who actually cares…" and "anyone, no matter where they depart, should defer their travel if they are positive with covid. So the impact on China compared to anywhere else should be minimal".

 

[drron]

A mandatory requirement is not voluntary.

Part of the reason why they are described as guidelines is that they are not exhaustive in and of themselves they need to be read in conjunction with multiple other pieces of policy and health advice.

This is to avoid confusion or over-reliance on the guidelines as the sole source.

As quite a few of us dinosaurs in the medical profession were won’t to say when we were judged on the guidelines introduced into medicine - if they were to be followed to the letter they would be called rules not guidelines.

 

[Tropic]

It is deeply racist and championed by those who have a dislike of China (e.g. just look at the way they use Alt-right terminology like CCP)

OK, you have claimed the temporary measures imposed on pax from China by Australia and a number of other countries are entirely based on racial grounds. Others dont share that view. Is any further discussion required?

 

[Mr H]

OK, you have claimed the temporary measures imposed on pax from China by Australia and a number of other countries are entirely based on racial grounds. Others dont share that view. Is any further discussion required?

You could turn that around and say that you and a couple of other members here think restrictions on pax from China are justified but science doesn't share that view. Is any further discussion required?

 

[Tropic]

You could turn that around and say that you and a couple of other members here think restrictions on pax from China are justified but science doesn't share that view. Is any further discussion required?

Well I wouldnt be so silly to do that as I havent made that claim. Regardless, cant see any need to discuss.

 

[Mr H]

Well I wouldnt be so silly to do that as I havent made that claim. Regardless, cant see any need to discuss.

Fair enough, you have certainly made your point.

If I can ever be of assistance on FF matters, please do engage. There is no need for our difference of opinion on this to carry over into other threads

 

[Tropic]

Dont think I actually expressed my opinion but respect your right to express yours. Cheers

 

[hb13]

Do you have evidence to prove this statement.

Would that mean the Chinese requirement for Australians to have undergo COVID testing when travelling to China is racially motivated as well?

Well Australia has all but forgotten about Covid - pre-departure and post-arrival testing no longer are required from anywhere. Hell, you don't even need to be vaccinated anymore to enter the country. In July, literally every covid test/requirement was ditched for travellers. Australia basically said we don't care about Covid - even if you have it, you no longer need to isolate!. That in itself tells people - 'we're no longer worried about this, or about people passing this on to others'.

Now, all of a sudden, you want to test Chinese travellers? You want to explain to me the logic in that? And as I said, many people here are saying we can't trust the Chinese. So if that is the case, what is the point in testing before a flight?

China is testing everyone before they arrive. They are on their way to easing more restrictions. Australia, when first opening up had this requirement for months. It just so happens China took much longer to get out of the restrictions than virtually any other country.

If we want to look at Covid rates and variants around the world, China certainly is no where near the worst. So why are we only testing people coming from China?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Well Australia has all but forgotten about Covid - pre-departure and post-arrival testing no longer are required from anywhere. Hell, you don't even need to be vaccinated anymore to enter the country. In July, literally every covid test/requirement was ditched for travellers. Australia basically said we don't care about Covid - even if you have it, you no longer need to isolate!. That in itself tells people - 'we're no longer worried about this, or about people passing this on to others'.

Now, all of a sudden, you want to test Chinese travellers? You want to explain to me the logic in that? And as I said, many people here are saying we can't trust the Chinese. So if that is the case, what is the point in testing before a flight?

China is testing everyone before they arrive. They are on their way to easing more restrictions. Australia, when first opening up had this requirement for months. It just so happens China took much longer to get out of the restrictions than virtually any other country.

If we want to look at Covid rates and variants around the world, China certainly is no where near the worst. So why are we only testing people coming from China?

Well… Australia has almost lifted all restrictions… testing is still required for cruise ships, and thousands of passengers a day are subject to those test requirements.

This is not a ban on Chinese passengers. It applies to all passengers. It is also not a ban on coming here because of race. Passengers testing negative may still travel. Only those who test positive will need to defer their travel for a week or so.

 

[Rich]

. So why are we only testing people coming from China?

Because the Chinese government is not transparent about what is going on, they don't share information and publish rubbish data.
If the decision for testing is not a medical one then it is a political one. Either way, it doesn't really matter. It is easily justified.

 

[hb13]

Well… Australia has almost lifted all restrictions… testing is still required for cruise ships, and thousands of passengers a day are subject to those test requirements.

This is not a ban on Chinese passengers. It applies to all passengers. It is also not a ban on coming here because of race. Passengers testing negative may still travel. Only those who test positive will need to defer their travel for a week or so.

Well you're factually incorrect - so in trying to prove a point - at least say the right thing.

This doesn't apply to 'all passengers' - it applies to 'all passengers from China'. Secondly, people who are traveling from China who test positive will need to defer travel; not ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD.

So you're ok that people who are positive from anywhere else in the world outside of China to board a flight to Aus? Because that's what you are saying. People who are Covid+ from China must be stopped - but from anywhere else, don't worry about it?

As we speak the XBB15 Variant is an extremely dangerous variant ripping through the UK and US and it originated in NY - why aren't we testing people traveling from the US and the UK?

Experts raise concerns as new Covid strain rips through US and UK

XBB15 first emerged in New York and has quickly exploded across the state.

www.nzherald.co.nz

 

[hb13]

Because the Chinese government is not transparent about what is going on, they don't share information and publish rubbish data.
If the decision for testing is not a medical one then it is a political one. Either way, it doesn't really matter. It is easily justified.

I'd agree that it may be a political one. But once again, as mentioned in another post of mine, we know there is an extremely dangerous variant in the US/UK right now.

You're ok for people carrying that variant to travel to Australia I assume?

 

[Ric]

As reported in the SCMP:

China sends virus data to international database ahead of WHO meeting

The viral sequencing data sent to the GISAID database did not identify a new strain but highlighted several Omicron subvariants around the country.

www.scmp.com

Doubts as to the reliability of the data will surely be hotly debated.
Damn if you do and damn if you don't eh?

 

[Rich]

Well you're factually incorrect - so in trying to prove a point - at least say the right thing.

This doesn't apply to 'all passengers' -

I am sure what MEL_Traveller and others are saying as that it applies to all travellers coming from China, not just those of Chinese race.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Well you're factually incorrect - so in trying to prove a point - at least say the right thing.

This doesn't apply to 'all passengers' - it applies to 'all passengers from China'. Secondly, people who are traveling from China who test positive will need to defer travel; not ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD.

So you're ok that people who are positive from anywhere else in the world outside of China to board a flight to Aus? Because that's what you are saying. People who are Covid+ from China must be stopped - but from anywhere else, don't worry about it?

As we speak the XBB15 Variant is an extremely dangerous variant ripping through the UK and US and it originated in NY - why aren't we testing people traveling from the US and the UK?

Experts raise concerns as new Covid strain rips through US and UK

XBB15 first emerged in New York and has quickly exploded across the state.

www.nzherald.co.nz

As Rich says, this is not a ban on race. It applies equally to all passengers originating in China.

Any passenger - anywhere in the world - should defer travel if they are positive. A test shouldn’t be required for this to be actioned. Therefore a test shouldn’t make any difference to those intending to travel, as they wouldn’t be anyway.

We can be relatively sure about data coming from the UK and US. We don’t have the same confidence on data from China. There could be a new variant which we’re not being told about.

 

[Mr H]

Any passenger - anywhere in the world - should defer travel if they are positive. A test shouldn’t be required for this to be actioned. Therefore a test shouldn’t make any difference to those intending to travel, as they wouldn’t be anyway.

… says the person who thought it was unfair when they themselves were required to show a negative test by a cruise company.