China travel bans from Late 2022

[kyle]

Any passenger - anywhere in the world - should defer travel if they are positive. A test shouldn’t be required for this to be actioned. Therefore a test shouldn’t make any difference to those intending to travel, as they wouldn’t be anyway.

And who would actually do a test if they are asymptomatic yet infectious before travelling if not required?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

… says the person who thought it was unfair when they themselves were required to show a negative test by a cruise company.

You are misquoting me.

As I have explained several times, I thought my cruise company was acting unilaterally in requiring a test before embarkation. In researching the matter I found out it was not my cruise company’s unique requirement, but a mandatory requirement by state government, to which the cruise company was complying.

Once I realised that, it was just a matter of (a) buying appropriate covid cruise insurance and (b) getting on and doing the test.

 

[Mr H]

I am sure what MEL_Traveller and others are saying as that it applies to all travellers coming from China, not just those of Chinese race.

But the policy clearly disproportionally affects Chinese people and was created specifically because of Chinese people. It's like those policies that apply only to non-metropolitan NT - they apply to everyone but are designed to impact mostly on Aboriginal people.

If it were to be applied fairly, we would be demanding negative tests from everyone regardless of their port of origin.

 

[Mr H]

You are misquoting me.

As I have explained several times, I thought my cruise company was acting unilaterally in requiring a test before embarkation. In researching the matter I found out it was not my cruise company’s unique requirement, but a mandatory requirement by state government, to which the cruise company was complying.

Once I realised that, it was just a matter of (a) buying appropriate covid cruise insurance and (b) getting on and doing the test.

It was not mandatory, as many of us have explained to you. It was the cruise company deciding to implement guidance, But as per your recent post: "Any passenger - anywhere in the world - should defer travel if they are positive. A test shouldn’t be required for this to be actioned. Therefore a test shouldn’t make any difference to those intending to travel, as they wouldn’t be anyway" - it is difficult to see how you could ever have thought it to be unfair, regardless of who required the test. Demonstrably, your instinct is to apply different rules to others than you thought should apply to yourself. Maybe if you have time for self-reflection, you might ask yourself why.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

But the policy clearly disproportionally affects Chinese people and was created specifically because of Chinese people. It's like those policies that apply only to non-metropolitan NT - they apply to everyone but are designed to impact mostly on Aboriginal people.

If it were to be applied fairly, we would be demanding negative tests from everyone regardless of their port of origin.

No. Because the testing requirements don't apply to Taiwan or Singapore.

And this is not a requirement solely on Chinese citizens, because Hong Kong (and Macau) are included.

China also requires all incoming passengers to have a negative test. That is equally on health grounds and an abundance of caution. If I don't want to do the test I can choose not to travel there.

 

[Rich]

But the policy clearly disproportionally affects Chinese people

So what? The policy impacts anyone flying from China. Logically it will impact more people of Chinese race.

If it were to be applied fairly, we would be demanding negative tests from everyone regardless of their port of origin.

You are wrongly assuming the situation in China and transparency of the Chinese government is the same as other counties

 

[Mr H]

You are wrongly assuming the situation in China and transparency of the Chinese government is the same as other counties

And I come full circle to asking whether anyone can articulate the problem that this action is intended to solve.

 

[Rich]

And I come full circle to asking whether anyone can articulate the problem that this action is intended to solve.

It's not hard to find different views from Paul Kelly if you look.
WHO backs COVID tests for flights from China but NZ says rule is ‘unjustified’

WHO backs COVID tests for flights from China but NZ says rule is ‘unjustified’

From Thursday, anyone flying from China, Hong Kong and Macau to Australia will need to provide a negative rapid test.

www.theage.com.au

Sheer scale of China’s COVID risk justifies pre-flight testing

Should China be singled out for Australia’s “abundance of caution” on COVID? Given the sheer scale of the potential threat, yes.

www.smh.com.au

 

[tomlee1986]

And I come full circle to asking whether anyone can articulate the problem that this action is intended to solve.

to ensure that we know exactly what is really happening in china with this current outbreak and what variant it has, in order for us in the western world to prepare for any outbreaks should it occur

 

[Mr H]

to ensure that we know exactly what is really happening in china with this current outbreak and what variant it has, in order for us in the western world to prepare for any outbreaks should it occur

And how are we going to do that by denying Covid positive people the chance to embark on their journey? Surely if that were really the problem we are trying to solve, we would let them travel and test some people on arrival into Australia to capture the information about the virus that is circulating in China.

 

[drron]

It's not hard to find different views from Paul Kelly if you look.
WHO backs COVID tests for flights from China but NZ says rule is ‘unjustified’

WHO backs COVID tests for flights from China but NZ says rule is ‘unjustified’

From Thursday, anyone flying from China, Hong Kong and Macau to Australia will need to provide a negative rapid test.

www.theage.com.au

Sheer scale of China’s COVID risk justifies pre-flight testing

Should China be singled out for Australia’s “abundance of caution” on COVID? Given the sheer scale of the potential threat, yes.

www.smh.com.au

Well your first link to the Age is really a comment on Australian Media Headline writers who as usual write headlines not being su[pported by what's in the article. the head of the WHO said he understands why some countries have imposed testing on travelers from China not that there is any scientific reason for it.

As to your second article there are many more experts in vaccination and immunity tyhat don't believe there is a scientific reason for testing.

The real reason for imposing testing has been indirectly hinted at by the EU who have reversed their policy on testing in the last 24 hours.

EU officials meeting on Wednesday in the “integrated political crisis response” format said there should be a requirement for a negative Covid test from all travellers from China, despite warnings from Beijing of retaliation.

EU wants travellers from China to take pre-departure Covid tests

Bloc recommends negative coronavirus tests from all arrivals despite warnings from Beijing of retaliation

www.theguardian.com

The decision as it has been around the world is political.

And here is an English expert commenting on the UKs decision to impose testing.
"I’d like to close by quoting Professor Andrew Pollard, chairman of the UK joint committee on vaccination and immunisation, speaking to BBC Radio 4:"

Trying to ban a virus by adjusting what we do with travel has already been shown not to work very well. We have seen that with the bans on travel from various countries during the pandemic. The likelihood of variants emerging there is the same as it is in other places where there are Covid waves. And the variants that emerge in China are ones that are going to be best adapted to spread in a Chinese population, which compared with countries like the UK is much less Covid-experienced… Testing people travelling from China probably doesn’t really answer the question about whether any new variant that is detected is going to be a problem here.

And it has been shown that NZ experts were in conference with our CMO and they were in agreement that the science didn't justify the imposing of testing on China.

Mandatory Covid-19 testing for China travellers overreaction, NZ officials reported saying

New Zealand health officials reportedly agreed with Australian counterparts that introducing mandatory Covid-19 testing for travellers from China was an overreaction.

www.rnz.co.nz

And the NZ Government to their credit has taken that advice on board.

Covid-19: Decision not to test travellers from China backed by health experts, politicians

Health experts are backing the government's decision not to impose pre-departure Covid-19 testing on travellers from China - saying it would be a case of "xenophobia".

www.rnz.co.nz

 

[MEL_Traveller]

There isn’t necessarily anything sinister in the term ‘political’. Governments have decided there are other considerations to be taken into account, perhaps economic, perhaps the impact on social services such as medical care or employment.

A political decision doesn’t mean it is intended as a punishment.

 

[Rich]

Well your first link to the Age is really a comment on Australian Media Headline writers who as usual write headlines not being su[pported by what's in the article. the head of the WHO said he understands why some countries have imposed testing on travelers from China not that there is any scientific reason for it.

As to your second article there are many more experts in vaccination and immunity tyhat don't believe there is a scientific reason for testing.

The real reason for imposing testing has been indirectly hinted at by the EU who have reversed their policy on testing in the last 24 hours.

EU wants travellers from China to take pre-departure Covid tests

Bloc recommends negative coronavirus tests from all arrivals despite warnings from Beijing of retaliation

www.theguardian.com

The decision as it has been around the world is political.

And here is an English expert commenting on the UKs decision to impose testing.
"I’d like to close by quoting Professor Andrew Pollard, chairman of the UK joint committee on vaccination and immunisation, speaking to BBC Radio 4:"




And it has been shown that NZ experts were in conference with our CMO and they were in agreement that the science didn't justify the imposing of testing on China.

Mandatory Covid-19 testing for China travellers overreaction, NZ officials reported saying

New Zealand health officials reportedly agreed with Australian counterparts that introducing mandatory Covid-19 testing for travellers from China was an overreaction.

www.rnz.co.nz

And the NZ Government to their credit has taken that advice on board.

Covid-19: Decision not to test travellers from China backed by health experts, politicians

Health experts are backing the government's decision not to impose pre-departure Covid-19 testing on travellers from China - saying it would be a case of "xenophobia".

www.rnz.co.nz

Drron I agree it is likely political. I did state that earlier in this thread. I was just replying to someone who was claiming there were no medical arguments for a testing requirement when clearly there are opinions in favour, even if a minority. (I am guilty with respect to WHO article as I didn't read that article, but I did read the other one.)
As I said before, the reason for requiring a test could be medical or political - either of which I am comfortable with.

 

[jakeseven7]

.....And we now have a covid variant that has been developed here locally in our very own Australia due to the prevalence of covid here.

I expect all other countries will require covid tests from us now? Lol.... I think not

 

[drron]

There isn’t necessarily anything sinister in the term ‘political’. Governments have decided there are other considerations to be taken into account, perhaps economic, perhaps the impact on social services such as medical care or employment.

A political decision doesn’t mean it is intended as a punishment.

Except as I linked we now know that the NZ and Australian governments were given the same medical advice. Australia back flipped on it's original decision whereas NZ has stuck with the medical advice and not introduced testing. Why? Probable answer focus groups. And therein lies a problem. Why did they think testing was a good idea. The most obvious reason though it might not be correct is xenophobia.

And if you are so worried by not knowing if China has a new variant and wouldn't tell us if they did why not do as they are intending to do in NZ. Waste water testing on all flights from China and asking selected travellers whether they would take a test. Then you would possibly be able to pick up a new variant if indeed it does exist.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Except as I linked we now know that the NZ and Australian governments were given the same medical advice. Australia back flipped on it's original decision whereas NZ has stuck with the medical advice and not introduced testing. Why? Probable answer focus groups. And therein lies a problem. Why did they think testing was a good idea. The most obvious reason though it might not be correct is xenophobia.

And if you are so worried by not knowing if China has a new variant and wouldn't tell us if they did why not do as they are intending to do in NZ. Waste water testing on all flights from China and asking selected travellers whether they would take a test. Then you would possibly be able to pick up a new variant if indeed it does exist.

I have no personal interest in this. The government however has decided it wants pre-departure testing. I think there are medical grounds to that, because china has the same requirement. And china wouldn’t be doing it unless there were medical grounds.

But that aside, even if it is political - taking into account economic reasons and not wanting tax payers to foot the bill - it makes no difference. It’s what the government has decided. And I can’t see the fundamental breach of human rights here that some are arguing.

 

[drron]

I have no personal interest in this. The government however has decided it wants pre-departure testing. I think there are medical grounds to that, because china has the same requirement. And china wouldn’t be doing it unless there were medical grounds.

But that aside, even if it is political - taking into account economic reasons and not wanting tax payers to foot the bill - it makes no difference. It’s what the government has decided. And I can’t see the fundamental breach of human rights here that some are arguing.

Highlighted area is wrong. End of story.
No further correspondence will be entered into.

 

[Rich]

The most obvious reason though it might not be correct is xenophobia.

To clarify, when I said I was comfortable if it was a political decision, I meant from an international (send a message to China) point of view, not a xenophobic point of view.

 

[Mr H]

To clarify, when I said I was comfortable if it was a political decision, I meant from an international (send a message to China) point of view, not a xenophobic point of view.

I'm not quite sure how these differ.

 

[tomlee1986]

To clarify, when I said I was comfortable if it was a political decision, I meant from an international (send a message to China) point of view, not a xenophobic point of view.

As a person born with Chinese heritage, i see no xenophobic comment from you, China needs to be more transparent in its data, even WHO is saying that too...