China travel bans from Late 2022

[hb13]

As Rich says, this is not a ban on race. It applies equally to all passengers originating in China.

Any passenger - anywhere in the world - should defer travel if they are positive. A test shouldn’t be required for this to be actioned. Therefore a test shouldn’t make any difference to those intending to travel, as they wouldn’t be anyway.

We can be relatively sure about data coming from the UK and US. We don’t have the same confidence on data from China. There could be a new variant which we’re not being told about.

How can you be relatively sure about data coming from the UK? I live in the UK and hardly anyone tests anymore - sick or not. So explain to me how that gives you confidence in terms of data?

Again, there is a dangerous variant - what have you or ay government done about it?

 

[Rich]

I'm not quite sure how these differ.

The Australian government imposing what is a pseudo sanction against a country is not xenophobic if it is done in response to that country's actions or inactions as is the case here. It is hardly the same as doing it in response to a xenophobic electorate.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Highlighted area is wrong. End of story.
No further correspondence will be entered into.

Lol. Of course. But that is the argument being run by those demanding Australia have a scientific reason for imposing testing, but accepting China’s claim that it’s testing is based on science.

 

[JohnK]

It's easier said than done.

When you've already paid x dollars for travel and combined with covid exclusions in insurance policies, unless you're so sick that you're bedridden, you would just put a mask on and hope to get better soon during travel.

Of course it's not easy.

I would not want to find myself in the situation where I forfeit my airfare because I've been infected with a virus.

I keep going back to my experience just over 12 years ago. I ended up in hospital with chicken pox. It was quite severe. 11 days in hospital. I was due to travel to Thailand the week after and called and was allowed some changes for free. As it turned out I could not travel for weeks and ended up paying further change fees and lost some airfares.

What's worse chicken pox or covid? Note the majority of children are vaccinated against covid. Should we be comparing viruses with our judgement of severity?

Personally I do not think it should be an individual choice. If you're sick you should not be allowed to travel. They are the risks we take booking non-refundable airfares and hotels. But by the same token airlines should be more lenient when there is a valid medical excuse not to travel.

 

[JohnK]

There is nothing to fear except fear itself.

That we are in this position and discussing the impact should be more than enough to terrify most people.

But nope. No fear. We'll just continue with our lives oblivious to what's playing out around us.

We fell asleep, woke up to see the mess we're in and decided we'll continue pretending we're asleep.

 

[Flyfrequently]

You should be OK flying to Germany for now. The return with Finnair via probably HKG will be an interesting part.
I am flying with Finnair to Syd via HKG on 8/1/23. Finnair washes its hands of as far as providing info on COVID restrictions beyond where they fly to i.e. HKG. They refuse to answer (point to information) on whether transit passengers via HKG might be affected.

FINNAIR fantastic (not) help:
"I am very sorry may advise is to call the proper authorities" "Everything which is on Google works"

The last leg of my trip to Syd is with Cathay, so I will try to monitor their info as well as news from AU for arrivals via HKG.
For now US requires tests for all flying from Mainland, HKG and Maccau, but again no info specifically on transit e.g. via HKG. I am sure AU will follow US path shortly; the question is how soon?

@Tad I am interested in hearing of your HK transit experience as we are going Qantas CR BC on CX Mel- HK then KLM HK-Ams albeit later this year.
My information from Qantas, Cathay and KLM has varied.
At least we have 13 hour layover on the way over and now changed return to 25 hours layover as rescheduled flight didn't meet MCT.
I have posted a thread Question re transit in HK, if you wish to reply to that.
Safe travels

 

[drron]

I am certainly not asleep. I am getting on with my life. The statistics certainly don't give rise to alarm.

Average age of death from covid in Australia - 82.9 for males, 86.7 for females.

Life expectancy for Australians at the end of 2020 - 81.2 for males, 85.3 for females.

All figures from the ABS.

And yes I know that the Guardian is having headlines such as -

Covid temporarily reduced Australia’s average life expectancy and lifted death rates to historic highs​

Covid temporarily reduced Australia’s average life expectancy and lifted death rates to historic highs

Centre for Population report shows 129,000 people died between January and August 2022, 17% higher than average for the period

www.theguardian.com

Basically because the death rate from January to August this year was 17% above the long term average. So 22000 extra deaths in that period of which 7700 were from covid, So nearly 50% ofv the excess deaths were from non covid causes. So their headline is obviously wrong.

But also here is an ABC article from November 22.

Australia's average life expectancy jumps to third globally behind Monaco and Japan, ABS data shows​

Aussies expected to live longer than almost everybody – but COVID could pull us back

Australia's life expectancy is now ranked third in the world. The new data takes into account the first two years of COVID, but 2022, the deadliest year of the pandemic, is yet to be counted.

www.abc.net.au

And just maybe we are seeing excess non covid deaths due to the effects of lockdowns as some of us predicted.

And that is why I am getting on with enjoying life.

 

[Pushka]

I am certainly not asleep. I am getting on with my life. The statistics certainly don't give rise to alarm.

Average age of death from covid in Australia - 82.9 for males, 86.7 for females.

Life expectancy for Australians at the end of 2020 - 81.2 for males, 85.3 for females.

All figures from the ABS.

And yes I know that the Guardian is having headlines such as -

Covid temporarily reduced Australia’s average life expectancy and lifted death rates to historic highs​

Covid temporarily reduced Australia’s average life expectancy and lifted death rates to historic highs

Centre for Population report shows 129,000 people died between January and August 2022, 17% higher than average for the period

www.theguardian.com

Basically because the death rate from January to August this year was 17% above the long term average. So 22000 extra deaths in that period of which 7700 were from covid, So nearly 50% ofv the excess deaths were from non covid causes. So their headline is obviously wrong.

But also here is an ABC article from November 22.

Australia's average life expectancy jumps to third globally behind Monaco and Japan, ABS data shows​

Aussies expected to live longer than almost everybody – but COVID could pull us back

Australia's life expectancy is now ranked third in the world. The new data takes into account the first two years of COVID, but 2022, the deadliest year of the pandemic, is yet to be counted.

www.abc.net.au

And just maybe we are seeing excess non covid deaths due to the effects of lockdowns as some of us predicted.

And that is why I am getting on with enjoying life.

As you should. I think most here are actually doing exactly what they want to as regards to travel but for some reason, well, seem to think others should live according to their restrictive thoughts and rules.

 

[JohnK]

Yep, I doubt anyone is seriously obeying it.
Half our staff is coughing and spluttering at the moment with many testing positive and still working. I bet there is a lot more that aren’t even bothering to be tested too

And management isn't sending people home? The number 1 focus at work has to be protecting everyone not encouraging spread of the virus.

The best thing that's happened at my office from covid has been to send people home if they are coughing or having any symptoms of covid. And you are encouraged to take personal leave or work from home as you see fit until you recover.

 

[jase05]

And management isn't sending people home? The number 1 focus at work has to be protecting everyone not encouraging spread of the virus.

The best thing that's happened at my office from covid has been to send people home if they are coughing or having any symptoms of covid. And you are encouraged to take personal leave or work from home as you see fit until you recover.

Many of the staff at facilities are contractors so no sick pay or leave and as you are not required to report your tests to management there are some staff that are just playing down how they are feeling. One of my management team doing a similar role as me has had a cough for a week or so now and just refuses to go and get tested.
It’s gone back to how it was pre pandemic pretty much

 

[JohnK]

As you should. I think most here are actually doing exactly what they want to as regards to travel but for some reason, well, seem to think others should live according to their restrictive thoughts and rules.

Oh come on already. My restrictive thoughts and rules.

You've decided to move on and I haven't. So covid positive people can turn up to work and I have no reason or right to complain because you know better than me.

I mean seriously? You call this moving on?

By the way who decides the severity of virus and whether you could go to work or continue functioning in society? Chicken pox? Covid? Pneumonia? Influenza?

So it's OK for someone who knows they have STDs or AIDS to continue having sex with strangers and not telling them? Surely their medical condition is no one else's business?

 

[Pushka]

Oh come on already. My restrictive thoughts and rules.

You've decided to move on and I haven't. So covid positive people can turn up to work and I have no reason or right to complain because you know better than me.

I mean seriously? You call this moving on?

By the way who decides the severity of virus and whether you could go to work or continue functioning in society? Chicken pox? Covid? Pneumonia? Influenza?

So it's OK for someone who knows they have STDs or AIDS to continue having sex with strangers and not telling them? Surely their medical condition is no one else's business?

You've moved on in many ways. Thailand is now considered high risk and Countries like India have implemented testing on arrival from people coming from Thailand. But that doesn't stop you going there. Travel on planes etc. Yet insist on mask wearing by others and WFH. It's contradictory

 

[JohnK]

You've moved on in many ways. Thailand is now considered high risk and Countries like India have implemented testing on arrival. But that doesn't stop you going there. Travel on planes etc. Yet insist on mask wearing by others and WFH. It's contradictory

No contradiction at all. It's not my fault society does not learn due to the stupidity of the people who blindly follow and do not listen.

Anyone care to explain why chicken pox is considered dangerous but covid is not dangerous?

- HIV a few years ago around 650,000 deaths worldwide
- STIs around 108,000 deaths worldwide
- Chicken pox around 6,000 deaths world wide
- Flu somewhere between 250,000-650,000 deaths worldwide
- Covid somewhere between 1,000,000-2,300,000 deaths worldwide depending on the source

If you fail to disclose HIV or STIs to a partner you can be charged with grievous bodily harm that may carry a life sentence.

If you have chicken pox you are encouraged to stay home and management sends an email to everyone. Plus it's very noticeable and not easy to hide.

But if you have the flu or covid it's an invasion of privacy and general push to have people going to work while they are infectious.

Seriously that's about as dumb as it can possibly get.

Our number one priority should always be to protect each other. You have no idea who is going to die next and every life should be considered precious. Collateral damage should always be unacceptable.

 

[Tropic]

Thailand introduces new entry regulations as China reopens border

BANGKOK: Thailand will require international travellers to show proof they are fully vaccinated for COVID-19 before flying to Thailand, according to the country's aviation regulator, as it prepares for more tourists

www.channelnewsasia.com

 

[Tropic]

All these countries making decisions contary to the "science" ... what is going on? Do they know something the rest of the world with free borders dont? Covid is everywhere now so no point testing or worrying... surely?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

No contradiction at all. It's not my fault society does not learn due to the stupidity of the people who blindly follow and do not listen.

Anyone care to explain why chicken pox is considered dangerous but covid is not dangerous?

- HIV a few years ago around 650,000 deaths worldwide
- STIs around 108,000 deaths worldwide
- Chicken pox around 6,000 deaths world wide
- Flu somewhere between 250,000-650,000 deaths worldwide
- Covid somewhere between 1,000,000-2,300,000 deaths worldwide depending on the source

If you fail to disclose HIV or STIs to a partner you can be charged with grievous bodily harm that may carry a life sentence.

If you have chicken pox you are encouraged to stay home and management sends an email to everyone. Plus it's very noticeable and not easy to hide.

But if you have the flu or covid it's an invasion of privacy and general push to have people going to work while they are infectious.

Seriously that's about as dumb as it can possibly get.

Our number one priority should always be to protect each other. You have no idea who is going to die next and every life should be considered precious. Collateral damage should always be unacceptable.

You’ve hit the nail on the head.

With chickenpox you can see it. With something like HIV you can probably narrow it down to the person who gave it to you.

With the flu or covid you can’t prove anything. So there are no ramifications. It’s highly unlikely you’ll ever face criminal charges.

 

[tomlee1986]

You’ve hit the nail on the head.

With chickenpox you can see it. With something like HIV you can probably narrow it down to the person who gave it to you.

With the flu or covid you can’t prove anything. So there are no ramifications. It’s highly unlikely you’ll ever face criminal charges.

i did catch covid late last year... the symptoms are so similar to flu but the feelings are worse than the flu - thats my personal differentiation of the 2

 

[Pushka]

No contradiction at all. It's not my fault society does not learn due to the stupidity of the people who blindly follow and do not listen.

Anyone care to explain why chicken pox is considered dangerous but covid is not dangerous?

- HIV a few years ago around 650,000 deaths worldwide
- STIs around 108,000 deaths worldwide
- Chicken pox around 6,000 deaths world wide
- Flu somewhere between 250,000-650,000 deaths worldwide
- Covid somewhere between 1,000,000-2,300,000 deaths worldwide depending on the source

If you fail to disclose HIV or STIs to a partner you can be charged with grievous bodily harm that may carry a life sentence.

If you have chicken pox you are encouraged to stay home and management sends an email to everyone. Plus it's very noticeable and not easy to hide.

But if you have the flu or covid it's an invasion of privacy and general push to have people going to work while they are infectious.

Seriously that's about as dumb as it can possibly get.

Our number one priority should always be to protect each other. You have no idea who is going to die next and every life should be considered precious. Collateral damage should always be unacceptable.

Many would consider your travel to Thailand to be very risky. You don't. But you want others to wear masks and you want to work from home because of risk. Doesn't make sense to me.

HIV - of course it's reportable because while not knowing the exact statistics it dooms everyone who acquires it to a lifelong threatening health issue. And death is high rate unless the sufferer adheres to a strict medical protocol. Most other infections, including covid and flu don't come anywhere near that.

Chicken pox? Don't ask me. Used to have chicken pox parties in my day.

 

[drron]

If a person contracts HIV and starts treatment within one year there is now no reduction in life expectancy.

 

[Pushka]

If a person contracts HIV and starts treatment within one year there is now no reduction in life expectancy.

Which is good. That treatment needs to be maintained for life So a lifelong significant health issue. And Consequences of non compliance is dire. Wonder how many aren't diagnosed in that time.