Citibank Plus - No Fee No Overseas Transaction Fee Account

[cove]

If you want to fly up front points/miles at about a cent each are the way to go so Citi Select works a treat if you are spending quite a bit.

 

[Duffa]

If you want to fly up front points/miles at about a cent each are the way to go so Citi Select works a treat if you are spending quite a bit.

Here are my sums:
First up the Citibank Plus - the conversion rate was within 0.1% of the XE spot rate for a 500 Turkish Lira conversion - in other words - no foreign transaction fee.
I'm still waiting to see how Citi Select performs for a transaction done the same day, same time but am expecting about 3%.....

However, my hotel has offered me a 10% discount if I pay by cash instead of Visa!!
What should I do??

I have four days until we leave fabulous Istanbul on SQ J. Please help!!! (First world, I know)

The 3.33333 points is still my preference

 

[cove]

Duffa take up the 10% as it is real money.
Go points for everything else.
Watch Suze Orman on CNBC on "Can I afford it".

 

[ferni]

Here are my sums:
First up the Citibank Plus - the conversion rate was within 0.1% of the XE spot rate for a 500 Turkish Lira conversion - in other words - no foreign transaction fee.
I'm still waiting to see how Citi Select performs for a transaction done the same day, same time but am expecting about 3%.....

However, my hotel has offered me a 10% discount if I pay by cash instead of Visa!!
What should I do??

I have four days until we leave fabulous Istanbul on SQ J. Please help!!! (First world, I know)

The 3.33333 points is still my preference

Simple, would you buy Citi points for 3.33Cents each if you were offered them at that price? I wouldn't.

 

[thehound]

Simple, would you buy Citi points for 3.33Cents each if you were offered them at that price? I wouldn't.

Citi Select points from overseas purchases aren't 3.33 cents each. You earn 5 points per dollar, and you pay a 3.3% fee on that dollar. Hence you're paying 3.3c for every 5 Citi points, or 0.66c per point.

I use my Citi points for KF, which might be what Duffa is referring to - i.e., every overseas dollar spent earns 5 Citi points, which is 3.33 KF miles. So KF miles are effectively 1 cent per mile. And I would pay that for KF miles.

In another thread ages ago I raised the same dilemma about which card I should use when I move overseas for 18 months from 2015. On $100k AUD equivalent of overseas spend I could pay no fees with Citi Plus but earn no points, or pay $3300 in fees and earn 333,333 KF miles. Given that a one-way saver from PER to Europe is 72250 KF miles in J, and PER-SIN one way in J is 27625, I could get 4 one-ways to Europe and a one way to Singapore with miles to spare - I'd pay $3300 any day for those 5 trips!!

 

[cove]

When you live in North America you may be able to get either a Citi Executive card or a Chase card which have no foreign exchange fees. You will then have access to either AA miles with Citi or Kris Flyer miles with Chase without the 1 cent per mile cost. In the meantime Citi Select works ok if you are ok with that cost.

 

[Duffa]

Citi Select points from overseas purchases aren't 3.33 cents each. You earn 5 points per dollar, and you pay a 3.3% fee on that dollar. Hence you're paying 3.3c for every 5 Citi points, or 0.66c per point.

I use my Citi points for KF, which might be what Duffa is referring to - i.e., every overseas dollar spent earns 5 Citi points, which is 3.33 KF miles. So KF miles are effectively 1 cent per mile. And I would pay that for KF miles.

In another thread ages ago I raised the same dilemma about which card I should use when I move overseas for 18 months from 2015. On $100k AUD equivalent of overseas spend I could pay no fees with Citi Plus but earn no points, or pay $3300 in fees and earn 333,333 KF miles. Given that a one-way saver from PER to Europe is 72250 KF miles in J, and PER-SIN one way in J is 27625, I could get 4 one-ways to Europe and a one way to Singapore with miles to spare - I'd pay $3300 any day for those 5 trips!!

Here's another way to look at it.
Let's say I/we spend $48450 here in Istanbul (Mrs D is doing her best to get me there in the Grand Bazaar!)
That would generate enough points for a J return SQ MEL-LHR.
I reckon the opportunity cost for said J return is about:
$5000 for SQ
$2500 for other methods such as MH "points and pay" or Lifemiles.

So my spend on select card gives a minimum of (roughly) 5% return and at best approx 10%!

Having said all that, I still think cash is king and will pay the hotel in crisp notes!

 

[cove]

Duffa where are you getting those crisp notes from? Are they coming out of an ATM?
Go Mrs Duffa at the Grand Bazaar!
I do think Kris Flyer miles are really good and even though most of the six I redeem miles for do not drink the Dom, the Krug or the lovely French red they do enjoy their flights with Singapore Airlines.

 

[ferni]

Citi Select points from overseas purchases aren't 3.33 cents each. You earn 5 points per dollar, and you pay a 3.3% fee on that dollar. Hence you're paying 3.3c for every 5 Citi points, or 0.66c per point.

I use my Citi points for KF, which might be what Duffa is referring to - i.e., every overseas dollar spent earns 5 Citi points, which is 3.33 KF miles. So KF miles are effectively 1 cent per mile. And I would pay that for KF miles.

In another thread ages ago I raised the same dilemma about which card I should use when I move overseas for 18 months from 2015. On $100k AUD equivalent of overseas spend I could pay no fees with Citi Plus but earn no points, or pay $3300 in fees and earn 333,333 KF miles. Given that a one-way saver from PER to Europe is 72250 KF miles in J, and PER-SIN one way in J is 27625, I could get 4 one-ways to Europe and a one way to Singapore with miles to spare - I'd pay $3300 any day for those 5 trips!!

I think you missed Duffa's point about getting a 10% discount for paying cash. Not sure where my 3.33Cents per citi point came from... 5PPD or 10% cash discount = 2 cents per citi point or about 3 cents per KF mile. Would you pay 3cents per KF mile? (this isn't even including the 3.3% surcharge which actually makes it 4cpm)

In your example you're only paying $3,300 for 333,333KF miles.... which is 1cpm... yes I'd probably buy KF at 1cpm, but not 3 Guess it depends how desperate you are for miles.

 

[thehound]

I think you missed Duffa's point about getting a 10% discount for paying cash. Not sure where my 3.33Cents per citi point came from... 5PPD or 10% cash discount = 2 cents per citi point or about 3 cents per KF mile. Would you pay 3cents per KF mile? (this isn't even including the 3.3% surcharge which actually makes it 4cpm)

In your example you're only paying $3,300 for 333,333KF miles.... which is 1cpm... yes I'd probably buy KF at 1cpm, but not 3 Guess it depends how desperate you are for miles.

I agree that I'd take the 10% cash discount too in Duffa's situation.

 

[thehound]

When you live in North America you may be able to get either a Citi Executive card or a Chase card which have no foreign exchange fees. You will then have access to either AA miles with Citi or Kris Flyer miles with Chase without the 1 cent per mile cost. In the meantime Citi Select works ok if you are ok with that cost.

I'll have to look into that cove. Any suggestions on how to get around credit history issues in North America (i.e. I won't have one!)?

 

[cove]

Try starting by transferring an American Express directly branded card across as American Express have a department that can do this. I know someone who did this when they moved from Perth to London and that was a big help.
We used HSBC in Perth to help us get our English accounts started.
If you want to move money across to Canada the Citibank debit card is a good way not to lose 3% or 4% of your capital in the funds switch to get accounts funded over there.

 

[Duffa]

Duffa take up the 10% as it is real money.

Thanks, Cove. Did as you suggested!
There was little chance I would have done anything else, when a 10% discount was on offer at the hotel in Istanbul.

However, regarding other transactions for Turkish L to $ Au. Here are my sums for 3 transactions on the same evening in this great city. (I presume it will be similar worldwide)

XE spot rate - 1.981
Citibank Plus - 1.978
Citi Select - 1.9037

Citibank Plus has a 0.15% premium over the XE spot rate, but for the Citi Select a whopping 4.06% over the same spot rate.
Even at 3.33 points per dollar, for overseas spend, this 3.91% premium inflates the cost of a J return to Europe, way above my comfort zone.

Citibank Plus is my new OS card.

Always learning and refining the game at AFF!

 

[cove]

If you can get a US credit card that has a huge opening bonus and zero foreign exchange fees that would prove to be very handy. Otherwise Citibank Plus is going to work a treat for you.

 

[ferni]

Thanks, Cove. Did as you suggested!
There was little chance I would have done anything else, when a 10% discount was on offer at the hotel in Istanbul.

However, regarding other transactions for Turkish L to $ Au. Here are my sums for 3 transactions on the same evening in this great city. (I presume it will be similar worldwide)

XE spot rate - 1.981
Citibank Plus - 1.978
Citi Select - 1.9037

Citibank Plus has a 0.15% premium over the XE spot rate, but for the Citi Select a whopping 4.06% over the same spot rate.
Even at 3.33 points per dollar, for overseas spend, this 3.91% premium inflates the cost of a J return to Europe, way above my comfort zone.

Citibank Plus is my new OS card.

Always learning and refining the game at AFF!

I usually use citi plus to withdraw cash and pay for most things while o/s but us citi credit card to pay for large bill like hotel, that way citi get a few $ for all the points I extract out of them

 

[Cynicor]

Thanks, Cove. Did as you suggested!
There was little chance I would have done anything else, when a 10% discount was on offer at the hotel in Istanbul.

However, regarding other transactions for Turkish L to $ Au. Here are my sums for 3 transactions on the same evening in this great city. (I presume it will be similar worldwide)

XE spot rate - 1.981
Citibank Plus - 1.978
Citi Select - 1.9037

Citibank Plus has a 0.15% premium over the XE spot rate, but for the Citi Select a whopping 4.06% over the same spot rate.
Even at 3.33 points per dollar, for overseas spend, this 3.91% premium inflates the cost of a J return to Europe, way above my comfort zone.

Citibank Plus is my new OS card.

Always learning and refining the game at AFF!

Isn't it much less than 3c/point?

$100 charge (Aud equiv)
Cost on CC $104 (on statement)
Points 416
400/416= ~1c/point (all figures rounded to the more conservative value.

Versus cash
$100
Paid 100, no points. No interest free period. Had to withdraw upfront/in advance or pay on the debit card. Especially bad for holds.

Versus Amex Plat
$100
$104 on CC
208 points into MR or QF
2c per point.

What surcharge would you pay in AU?

If less than 1% then things are consistent. If more then (I may have my maths wrong!) you may as well pay forex on the citi signature or select.

 

[ferni]

Isn't it much less than 3c/point?

$100 charge (Aud equiv)
Cost on CC $104 (on statement)
Points 416
400/416= ~1c/point (all figures rounded to the more conservative value.

1c per Citi point sounds right but that's only 0.66KF points.... so closer to 1.5% surcharge back home in Aus.

 

[Duffa]

No interest free period.

D@mn you, Cynicor!

I forgot to factor in the 55 (or average of 27.5) days interest free on Select. In fact, it's even worse because I've had 10k in that non-interest bearing, Citi Plus account since I left Oz 3 weeks ago. So the lost interest could potentially be up to 76 days!

Back to the drawing board.

 

[There'sOnlyOneJimmy]

Re: Foreign Operator ATM Fees

Hi All.
I've read through this thread (yes, all 432 posts...), and noticed many references to the use of non-Citi ATMs outside of OZ, some of which charge local operator fees and some which don't.
So far it seems like a pretty much 'luck of the draw' thing as to whether there'll be a local fee or not.
While the ATM should usually warn of fees (but sometimes won't), It would be preferable to be able to seek out 'known operators' that don't charge a fee for use of the CitiBank card.
I've tried several times by email & telephone to get some information on this topic directly from CitiBank Aus, but they've been very unhelpful. The 'best' help I got from them through the entire (frustrating) exchange was that if I nominated the countries that I'm intending to travel in then they would give me the phone numbers of the CitiBank head office in each of those countries and then I could call each of them and ask. Somehow the prospect of making international phone calls to 6 different countries to try to make this enquiry in English just doesn't seem to be worth trying...

So my questions:
1) Does anyone know whether there is a list of international ATM providers that do not charge ATM fees to CitiBank cards?
2) If not, is it worthwhile creating a document within the forum to record our collective experiences at the various ATMs in the various countries that we visit?
3) Does anyone have any better idea?

Thanks in advance.
TOOJ#3

 

[Mr_Orange]

A good idea. So far, I have only used Citi ATMs (HKG and SIN) or HSBC in HKG. Neither charged operator fees.