Current Union Activity - Tide of support turned against them?

[possum FF]

Hey Winchester. Nice reply. I appreciate that balance.
You seem to know the issues. Tell me - are the pilots still seeking enhanced retirement travel benefits as part of their demands. If so, that selfishness itself would be divisive.

 

[pauly7]

In total selfishness I admit I just want this sorted. I can't help feeling if we didn't have a Labor government something would have been done by now.

I think even now this weak Labor gov is starting to get pissed off... There is only so much time you want to wait in the CL lounge I guess!

 

[drron]

No where near a fair comparison. Customs is a branch of government and therefore public service so far as I am aware. Our massive overpaid and underperforming public sector is, in fact, cutting their own throats by stealth - its the source of so much privatisation in recent years. They don't need to be profitable or even viable frankly, as they all simply lean on the public purse.

Government run monopolies are always highly susceptible to strike actions as there is nowhere else for end-users to go. If there were competing Customs branches, one run by government and one private, then I wonder if the strike action would have been successful?

Sorry I have to disagree only with the highlighted words.They are cutting our throats by stealth.The incredible increase in"administrators"with no perceivable increase in efficiency is one of the reasons behind our loomong financial crisis.We all want government largesse without wanting to pay more ourselvesIt is not the troops at the public interface who are the major problem though.It is the faceless administrators who are soaking up more of our money.Certainly private enterprise is much leaner when it comes to administration.

A personal example of the increase in administrators.I arrived at a NSW hospital as a staff specialist in 1975.It had 230 beds,178 nurses,3 nursing administrators,22 in hospital general administration and the CEO reported directly to Sydney head office.By the time I left in 1992 the hospital had 130 beds,105 nurses,13 in nursing administration,66 in general administration and the CEO reported to the sub regional board who reported to the Regional Director who then reported to Sydney.
And complaints about service had increased.Sadly it is even more top heavy today.

 

[EmilyHoward]

I think that was very well put Winchester!

EH

I normally don't engage with 1st time posters, specially as most of them make one post and leave after getting something off their chest. However, I think this is worthy of some response and counterpoint.

Having just watched the AGM webcast and seen James Strong (Chairman, Remuneration Committee) lay this issue out in detail - the assertion that Joyce is getting "such an obscene increase" is without merit.

The claims that he is getting a 71% pay rise are false, completely misrepresent the pay structure of the companies CEO, and re-affirms QF's decision to implement a salary package of which the majority is an at-risk component.

For those not familiar with at-risk in the context of salary packages, this means that receipt of a designated amount of the salary is entirely dependant on achieving specific, measurable goals for corporate performance. Think of it as the executive version of commission based pay.

Joyce's salary package for FY2010/11 is set at AUD 6.02m, of which AUD 2.04m is cash salary. Frankly, on the basis of the work he has done to date trying to strengthen the business and diversify to improve revenue, he's earned every cent.

The remaining AUD 3.98m is only payable when Joyce has delivered against the medium and long term targets set as part of his remuneration package, which was voted on and approved at their AGM last year. I wasn't able to discern from the meeting if the allocation of ~1.7m shares (which form part of the Qantas Long Term Incentive Plan - LTIP) is reliant on the meeting of goals and forms part of the AUD 3.98m figure.

Targets set for Joyce to earn that additional AUD 3.98m and the LTIP shares are pretty steep, and include a number of metrics rating QF's performance against the ASX/S&P Top 100, and the basket of globally listed airlines. A bit more info about this can be found in the notice of meeting for today's AGM (See pg. 4, col 2).

Further, any award of shares to Joyce under the LTIP has to be approved by a vote of shareholders at an AGM. I'd happily wager that if institutional investors weren't happy with the CEO's performance, they'd be doing a lot more than voting done a LTIP motion at an AGM.

Further, let's get back to why the airline hasn't reached agreement with the engineers, ground staff and pilots union. It's because these groups are wanting to impose conditions as part of an industrial relations agreement which enshrine old and redundant work practices, and could reasonably prevent the airline from seeking out lawful opportunities to grow the company which would in turn help deliver the job security they so desperately desire.

And I've already covered the legal issues regarding this in another thread, looking at how such conditions could be a plain text breach of the Competition Act subject to the union meeting the criteria for the activities test which would enable this to be classified as restrictive conduct.

Unions in this country have for at least the last 30yrs been heavily resistant to change. We just have to look at the waterfront disputes during the 90's and the significant work done by the previous Federal Government to break apart the stranglehold of the Building and Construction unions.

I'm all for people getting job security, but what I won't, nor do I expect Qantas to stand for, is allowing these groups to hold it to ransom and acting for themselves rather than the greater good. The unions need to grow up, and realise it's high time for their industrial practices to move on.

 

[Moopere]

... They are cutting our throats by stealth.The incredible increase in"administrators"with no perceivable increase in efficiency is one of the reasons behind our loomong financial crisis ....

Yes, I can't disagree with this. I liked your example too, its pretty much the same right across the board. Multiple (new) levels of oversight, each supposedly checking on the others, yet, when something horrible _does_ happen no-one is to blame, its the ' system'.

 

[scheps]

@ drron.

Totally agree with you. In QLD, last i heard, admin to health staff ratio (allied, medical, nursing etc) was about 8:1. yes. 8:1.

 

[monoccular]

On the health issue, there are many rural and remote communities that rely entirely for their essential health care by FIFO medical and other staff. I know for certain of one rural city that will have NO surgeon for the foreseeable future thanks to this.

 

[Limewood]

Standing around a BBQ last night with a large group of friends, all but one was livid about the unions behaviour and on/off again strikes against Q, most agreed it was about time Q stood up to these unions due to the untold damage happening to the Q image, mind you none of us are flying ATM!. One question I raised do they have secret ballots on any strike action or is it a show of hands in front of a union organiser?.

 

[munitalP]

...
So, the short sightedness of the unions has now seen Qantas start playing the final hand in this game of Texas holdem. The unions hold a pair of jacks, the flop, turn and river are a jack and 2 aces - the union does not realise the full house they believe will win them the game, is about to be trumped by the two aces that Qantas hold.

What are these aces? Simple. Qantas has started and will continue to ground aircraft to offset cost/losses. Airfares will increase until only very resilient customers will continue to pay the union forced fare increases, and another Australian icon will wither to a point of no return.

...

http://www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au/community/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=502432

 

[abstraction]

How to serve your own interests:

1. FIND WAYS TO SAVE MONEY = Anything will do. Example - 'Inspection on demand.' means that engineers will no longer regularly check planes. Currently pilots and engineers both inspect after every flight, but pilots are not qualified to understand the kinds of things engineers look for. This wonderful short-cut reduces the workforce and saves money.
2. SAVE MONEY MEANS INCREASED SHORT-TERM PROFITS, => pay bonuses for CEOs! 71%.
3. PR CAMPAIGN = put the focus on the unions and their left wing tactics that are damaging the airline. Show how the unions are self-serving and damaging the airline.

Now that is what is known as irony.

 

[eastwest101]

I myself am neutral on this as both parties have to share some of the blame. After the sudden grounding of the QF fleet on the 29th - which certainly raises the stakes - will be interesting to see how this plays out. I take the attitude that AJ and the QF board essentially brought this on to:

1. Get the government's and FWA's attention
2. Get a result as quickly as possible (ie taking the path of russian roulette rather than a long slow "death by a thousand cut" option

I posted a while ago about "capacity destruction" as a business tool when they started grounding older B734 and B767's, and this latest action could be viewed as an extreme example of this.

Anyone got examples or studies of protracted industrial disputes and capacity reductions and how they worked for other companies?

 

[EmilyHoward]

My thoughts are..... good on AJ, Leigh Clifford and the Board. Things are finally going to get sorted out. The unions have not played this well and have been very well outplayed by Qantas. Most of Australia will be behind AJ and the Board to sort these Unions out. Australia loves Qantas.

EH

 

[777]

To be honest. If the unions are getting 27% support on a Frequent Flyer board one would have to assume their number among the general public are a bit higher.

 

[munitalP]

To be honest. If the unions are getting 27% support on a Frequent Flyer board one would have to assume their number among the general public are a bit higher.

I kept the voting private for obvious reasons, but after this Hosting / Server issues are over, I will be asking for detailed stats - not names but number of posts previous to voting. There has been a massive influx of voting pro union in the last few days and that seems quite interesting to me. I would believe the stats earlier this week which were 88% against were quite stagnated, therefore the most accurate.

 

[browski]

Up until yesterday, the majority seemed to be bagging the unions. After last nights shutdown, the majority seems to be bagging AJ.
This is why the public's view about the actual issues are irrelevant, because they are looking through the sphere of self interest.

The Qantas Board will eventually put an end to all this. It won't be the public, or the unions or AJ or Fair Work Australia.

Is there a book being run on the day's remaining of AJ's tenure?

 

[browski]

Up until yesterday, the majority seemed to be bagging the unions. After last nights shutdown, the majority seems to be bagging AJ.
This is why the public's view about the actual issues are irrelevant, because they are looking through the sphere of self interest.

The Qantas Board will eventually put an end to all this. It won't be the public, or the unions or AJ or Fair Work Australia.

Is there a book being run on the day's remaining of AJ's tenure?

 

[ap1299]

Yeah, I read that. Without disagreeing with the general message there were a couple of dodgy things raised in the letter. The 4 hour minimum applies to everyone, except school kids working after school. Basically no one can be rostered for a shift less than 4 hours. Then there is the significant discount on flights. Plenty of people have posted here about staff travel basically not being worth the effort. I also had a problem with the 5 days off per fortnight and being able to swap shifts. I get 6 days off a fortnight! and I don't have to work shifts. Then swapping shifts what's wrong with that? How is that a massive benefit that most other shift workers don't enjoy?

You Lucky Chap. If you offered a swap for such "hard Work & nothing special facilities" , guess how many Australians would like to swap their current work conditions.

 

[Hermes]

Forgive me if someone has already mentioned this, but Dick Smith has summed it up: As long as travellers demand low fares, Qantas (and other airlines) cannot pay more to staff. It just doesn't compute.

At the same time, Joyce is to be lambasted for his obscene salary increase at such a time. He says it was already in the pipeline, but for heaven's sake, couldn't he have deferred it until this is settled?

 

[Limewood]

just shows what the majority think 72% agree with Q, I've only found 1 from 20 backing the unions.

 

[Paddy55]

Forgive me if someone has already mentioned this, but Dick Smith has summed it up: As long as travellers demand low fares, Qantas (and other airlines) cannot pay more to staff. It just doesn't compute.

At the same time, Joyce is to be lambasted for his obscene salary increase at such a time. He says it was already in the pipeline, but for heaven's sake, couldn't he have deferred it until this is settled?

Cannot agree more re Joyce's salary increase timing.
The size/timing reduce the moral authority of management substantially.

Far as I'm concerned the TWU, Engineers and Pilots should be sent somewhere far away with Joyce, the Board and Senior mgmt... and outsource the running of Qantas to, say, Cathay Pacific

Paddy