Current Union Activity - Tide of support turned against them?

[epsc]

Cannot agree more re Joyce's salary increase timing.
The size/timing reduce the moral authority of management substantially.

Far as I'm concerned the TWU, Engineers and Pilots should be sent somewhere far away with Joyce, the Board and Senior mgmt... and outsource the running of Qantas to, say, Cathay Pacific

Paddy

I just don't see the need to hail either side as being completely right. Joyce obviously shouldn't get his obscene 72% - doesn't deserve it in my view (hard to see how anyone could - a good healthy dividend and share price would be a start, but that ain't the case), and should get the flick; but the unions need to get a grip with reality and realise that what they are doing is pushing q int'l even deeper into the hole its already in. I don'tappreciate being the one on the receiving end of their muscle.

 

[samiam]

One question I raised do they have secret ballots on any strike action or is it a show of hands in front of a union organiser?.

A secret ballot is conducted by the Australian Electoral Commission.

http://fwa.gov.au/documents/industrialballotsresults/twu/twu_20113180.pdf

 

[Moopere]

Far as I'm concerned the TWU, Engineers and Pilots should be sent somewhere far away with Joyce, the Board and Senior mgmt... and outsource the running of Qantas to, say, Cathay Pacific

I saw the smilies

However, really, ultimately, anyone is free to start a new airline in Australia which is built from the ground up for the benefit of Australia (at large) and the workforce. Really, anyone here could do it today. The government could do it, at their peril mind, as taxpayers won't enjoy the hit.

It would be a great exercise for the unions to engage in actually, give them exposure to things like business plans and the need for return on capital if you expect investors to fund you.

 

[browski]

I saw the smilies

However, really, ultimately, anyone is free to start a new airline in Australia which is built from the ground up for the benefit of Australia (at large) and the workforce. Really, anyone here could do it today. The government could do it, at their peril mind, as taxpayers won't enjoy the hit.

It would be a great exercise for the unions to engage in actually, give them exposure to things like business plans and the need for return on capital if you expect investors to fund you.

Ahhhhhhh, I don't think anyone at Qantas would really enjoy the workers getting to see the real balance sheets. What if it was discovered that QFi was profitable and JetStar, not so much? Best to keep the charade going for a bit longer yet.

 

[Moopere]

Ahhhhhhh, I don't think anyone at Qantas would really enjoy the workers getting to see the real balance sheets. What if it was discovered that QFi was profitable and JetStar, not so much? Best to keep the charade going for a bit longer yet.

Seriously unlikely that the books are 'cooked' somehow. This was raised a long time ago because of some apparent 'leaked' documents and I don't see anyone jailed as a result.

All publicly listed companies are audited by independent auditors at least once a year. Its enormously expensive for the companies involved and whilst yes, for sure, its possible (though not probable) that the wool has been pulled over the auditors eyes, the directors in charge of doing such a thing risk serious charges backed with imprisonment. Public companies just are not run this way. Sure, we can all point to a few high profile bad-egg cases every year, but by and large, those guys are caught in the end, and jailed.

 

[browski]

Seriously unlikely that the books are 'cooked' somehow. This was raised a long time ago because of some apparent 'leaked' documents and I don't see anyone jailed as a result.

All publicly listed companies are audited by independent auditors at least once a year. Its enormously expensive for the companies involved and whilst yes, for sure, its possible (though not probable) that the wool has been pulled over the auditors eyes, the directors in charge of doing such a thing risk serious charges backed with imprisonment. Public companies just are not run this way. Sure, we can all point to a few high profile bad-egg cases every year, but by and large, those guys are caught in the end, and jailed.

Nobody is suggesting their accounting practices have broken any law. Not charging for costs internally is not illegal, but a pro QFi CFO might attribute costs differently.

 

[cove]

Unions ordered to cease industrial action by Fair Work Australia while negotiations continue.
Qantas will be flying tonight and backlog will take some time to clear.

 

[Hvr]

Unions ordered to cease industrial action by Fair Work Australia while negotiations continue.
Qantas will be flying tonight and backlog will take some time to clear.

One hopes they also ordered Qantas to cease their industrial action as well and to actually negotiate in good faith.

 

[drron]

One hopes they also ordered Qantas to cease their industrial action as well and to actually negotiate in good faith.

Yes the order is for all sides to cease action and negotiate.Interesting piece in todays SMH-
Joyce's gamble is he'll win Trojan War, Ulysses-like, with audacious roll of the dice
There nearly was agreement with the TWU on Thursday but Tony(the Pres)Sheldon wanted all QF staff to be paid the same-I presume this is the outsourced workers that JQ has.So my reading is QF were being fair in negotiations but the Union was playing hardball.

 

[Favfern]

QF Fifth Steward on Re: Current Union Activity - Tide of support turned against them?

As someone who genuinely remembers (and worked for) Qantas in the "good old days" i.e. prior privitization, I would like to have my say! I missed most of the latest argument because I only returned from the UK on Saturday after 5 weeks away in London. My wife and I flew BA Premium Economy both ways. I would have preferred QF but the fare differential was a bit too much. When I joined Qantas as a Flight Steward in 1968, there was no better job for a young bloke! I earned more as a QF Steward than I did in my previous occupation as a school teacher and I flew round the world in conditions that flight crew today would regard as unbelievable!

My first trip as a Qantas Fifth Steward in 1968 was SYD/NAN/HNL/SFO/NYC/SFO/HNL/NAN/SYD. We stopped over in HNL for two days, then SFO for two days, then NYC for two days, then SFO for two days, then HNL for two days and then home to SYD for TEN days off! We stayed at the Polynesian Hotel in HNL, the Drake Wiltshire in SFO and the Lexington in NYC. This, of course, was back in the days when Qantas was Government owned and all international airlines were controlled by IATA (International Air Transport Association). There was no competition and IATA could dictate the level of service in the two classes --- First and Economy!

Of course, very few people could afford to fly!

A privatized Qantas could not survive if they employed staff on the basis that I was employed in 1968! It is so sad to see the present day Qantas. Back in 1968, many of our QF Captains were ex-WW2 fighter pilots! They flew for QF, not only for the money, but for the nationalistic belief that Qantas was an extention of what they had fought for during the war.

I must back the current CEO in his drastic action because the feather-bedding of the old days must come to an end! If Gillard wants to keep QF crew above the dramas of international competition, privatize the airline and subsidize the outcome!

Qantas may be an icon, but the Australian population are voting with their wallets and their feet --- and it doesn't look good for the Flying Kangaroo!

 

[Mwenenzi]

Re: QF Fifth Steward on Re: Current Union Activity - Tide of support turned against t

after 5 weeks away in London. My wife and I flew BA Premium Economy both ways. I would have preferred QF but the fare differential was a bit too much...

With a middle east airline you may have been able to business for about the same $$ as your PE on BA.
This differential is why if QF do not reduce costs it will be a slow death:- left with a just few A380 trundling SYD-LHR and maybe SYD-LAX. The average punter will fly the middle east airlines in Y. Business's are now going for BDOD (best fare on the day) Where I work that means EK to Eu & UA to USA in C. 5 years ago it was only QF.

These unions need to realize QF is not a charity for them.
Flight attendants did that a few years ago. New hires get 30% less than the grey haired ones.

 

[tedly03]

Well it would appear that Joyce sees Qantas the way to improve his retirement savings. Salary increase, more shares. Following Qantas actions on the weekend we will no longer fly Qantas. The only problem of course is that we will not be supporting Australian workers. However, will Qantas have any Australian workers in 12 months time.

 

[Moopere]

Following Qantas actions on the weekend we will no longer fly Qantas. The only problem of course is that we will not be supporting Australian workers. However, will Qantas have any Australian workers in 12 months time.

Personally, I can't wait to book my next QF flight to show my support. I can do so now with complete confidence that rolling stoppages won't affect me + I expect there will be a period of super deals to get peoples attention again - so I'm really happy.

 

[pauly7]

Personally, I can't wait to book my next QF flight to show my support. I can do so now with complete confidence that rolling stoppages won't affect me + I expect there will be a period of super deals to get peoples attention again - so I'm really happy.

Same, I feel they have had such a rough time as late, it isn't pleasant for anyone so I'm looking forward to booking as well

All the negativity and some of the VA fanbois rolling around in it like a dog on cow manure 'hoping for QF' to fail just makes me a bit sick, so looking fwd to them picking up and moving onwards and upwards.

 

[Mal]

The only problem of course is that we will not be supporting Australian workers. However, will Qantas have any Australian workers in 12 months time.

Strange. Domestically both Virgin and Tiger (and Jetstar) uses Australian workers. Internationally V Australia (and Jetstar ... to a point) uses Australian workers. Lots of Australians working for Emirates these days.

Qantas has NZ workers staffing Trans-Tasman flights, English workers on the LHR-Asia (and sometimes onwards) flights, Crew bases in Asia also provide some staff for certain routes.

The jingoism of "Australian workers" makes me cringe. Australians ONLY support "Australian" when it makes sense. Did we support our textiles industry? Our electronics industry? As has been said 8/10 passengers fly the cheapest airline. Wow, 20% MIGHT care that Qantas has Australian based staff / maintenance.

 

[Paddy55]

Well it would appear that Joyce sees Qantas the way to improve his retirement savings. Salary increase, more shares. Following Qantas actions on the weekend we will no longer fly Qantas. The only problem of course is that we will not be supporting Australian workers. However, will Qantas have any Australian workers in 12 months time.

I've been consistently critical here of AJ turning QF into JQ... however I do believe he's acting in what he perceives is QF's interests and don't for a second think he's motivated as you've described.

My opinion of AJ has gone up since the weekend's action, although I still feel he and the unions aren't concerned enough with putting the customer first.

I imagine it is many years since QF only employed Australians - it's unrealistic to think it could be otherwise. I think it's a pretty safe bet to assume Australian's are employed by all airlines who operate out of Oz which makes airlines like most other industries, doesn't it?

Paddy

 

[NM]

As has been said 8/10 passengers fly the cheapest airline. Wow, 20% MIGHT care that Qantas has Australian based staff / maintenance.

I expect that 80% of that 20% fly Qantas for one of 2 main reasons - corporate travel policy or because they addicted to Qantas Frequent Flyer program. I expect the employment of Australian workers is well down their list of decision criteria.

 

[Limewood]

Personally, I can't wait to book my next QF flight to show my support. I can do so now with complete confidence that rolling stoppages won't affect me + I expect there will be a period of super deals to get peoples attention again - so I'm really happy.

Ditto, i'm going to support Q too, no matter what stunts the unions pull. If there are good Q deals later I'll take it up.

 

[EmilyHoward]

I will always continue to support Qantas. I think it's called Loyalty.

EH

 

[mkentwell]

This may be somewhat simplistic, but if Qantas wish to remain as the Australian Flag carrier, then employ, administer and maintain in Australia!

I remember it wasnt too many years ago that Asian Airlines used to come to Sydney for their Maintenance, but years of greed (shareholders and possibly staff as well) have eroded what was once the world leader.

We now have a Leprechaun determined to find the pot of gold in another country... and I say to him, your welcome, off you go, just leave our once great airline here and alone... maybe we can find someone who wants to keep Australian Icons IN Australia, rather than sell off our heritage as successive previous Governments (both varieties) have been quite happy to have happen.