Discussion on Ukraine situation 2022

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Interesting opinion

Ukraine invasion: Would Putin press the nuclear button?

"Would never do" isn't a phrase that applies to Vladimir Putin, the BBC's Steve Rosenberg believes.

www.bbc.com

 

[vetrade]

There would be innumerable US citizens stuck in the Russia, so at least this is giving them some way out. At this stage, it makes very little difference, to what is going to be another decade or so of icy relations.

Lots of Brits, Germans, Canadians and others in Russia too but their leaders have been actively engaged. It's incomprehensible that Biden, the President of the most powerful Western country, hasn't been seen for 3 days - he left his desk in the Oval Office and went home to Delaware.
Icy relations will be eternal between Ukraine & Russia but Ukranians are measuring their very existance in hours or days while Putin relishes the fact he knows Biden won't stand up to him.

 

[Must...Fly!]

Lots of Brits, Germans, Canadians and others in Russia too but their leaders have been actively engaged. It's incomprehensible that Biden, the President of the most powerful Western country, hasn't been seen for 3 days - he left his desk in the Oval Office and went home to Delaware.
Icy relations will be eternal between Ukraine & Russia but Ukranians are measuring their very existance in hours or days while Putin relishes the fact he knows Biden won't stand up to him.

Putin is kicking own goal after own goal in the west, there is no need for the president to bang the drums. They have committed money, troops to NATO and are clearly coordinating the responses in the background.

I'm no apologist for sleepy Joe Biden at all but I don't think the criticism is fair or warranted in this case.

 

[Jenya]

The most frustrating thing for me those days is some regular Australians saying "yeah, its horrible" about Ukraine assault but at the same time nod their heads "yeah BUT its in fact US who is to blame, Putin is right protecting his country's interests".
Let me be clear - it is NOT in people of Russia interest to kill their brothers and sisters that are as close to each other as kiwis and aussies.
`
There are no US troops in Ukraine, nor other NATO countries.
Ukraine was neutral state up until now. Even after annexation of its regions in 2014.
End even this days as Ukraine pleading for help, there still no military support from NATO.
Ukrainian "right sector" nationalists that Putin clams to protect Ukraine from, got minimal support with population nor any representation in parliament flowing free election.

The only one who instigated situation is Putin with his sick ambitious to conquer the world and "great' Russia that in fact weak economically and horrible place to live for its own ppl. Fact that you can witness if you ever keen to travel outside Moscow and take in account global migration steams. I don't see regular aussies ever wheeling to go and live under 'strong leader' Putin, instead it is millions of us russians, experienced it first hand, have to flee our country hijaсked by killers and thieves.
Until you do travel to regional Russia and understand all this, please don't consider yourself properly informed on that field.
Just the fact that you hate US foreign policy doesn't meant that Russian or Chinese regimes any better choice for the world.

Good thing is - Putin already lost. He completely trashed his economy, divided his own elites that can any time turn against him now, He become 100% war criminal ready for Hague tribunal if not die or get killed prior.
But main thing - he achieved exact opposite of what he tried to get - NOW Ukrainian population party loyal to Russia a week ago is fully united against so called 'russian world'. Same as Kazakhs (remember russian troops clearin protests there in January), Belarusians after putins support their own dictator Lukashenko, and of cause Georgia, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Moldova. He surrounded Russia by hostile nations - this is not in Russian people interests.

Now Ukraine got 100% solid base to stop being neutral and ask for protection and membership in EU, NATO and to acquire nuclear weapon - and it has full right to do so.

 

[drron]

The Ukrainian president has put pressure on to the EU by officially asking for immediate membership.

Ukrainian president signs formal request to join the European Union

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy on Monday said he had signed an official request for Ukraine to join the European Union.

www.reuters.com

 

[jb747]

The Ukrainian president has put pressure on to the EU by officially asking for immediate membership.

Ukrainian president signs formal request to join the European Union

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy on Monday said he had signed an official request for Ukraine to join the European Union.

www.reuters.com

He needs NATO, not the EU.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

The Ukrainian president has put pressure on to the EU by officially asking for immediate membership.

Ukrainian president signs formal request to join the European Union

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy on Monday said he had signed an official request for Ukraine to join the European Union.

www.reuters.com

Needs NATO - to get troops

 

[jb747]

I'm no apologist for sleepy Joe Biden at all but I don't think the criticism is fair or warranted in this case.

Agreed. But someone who is not in power will always claim to be able to do things better.

 

[antycbr]

He needs NATO, not the EU.

Nato don't want to go straight into a hot war.

The EU bid is more giving people hope that they are being supported to be part of the European camp at the end of this.

 

[antycbr]

Putin is kicking own goal after own goal in the west, there is no need for the president to bang the drums. They have committed money, troops to NATO and are clearly coordinating the responses in the background.

I'm no apologist for sleepy Joe Biden at all but I don't think the criticism is fair or warranted in this case.

The other thing that the US has been doing for months and months is telegraphing both privately and publicly what Putin was up to. This has given many NATO countries valuable time to prepare and support Ukraine in advance of the invasion. For example, the head of the German intelligence service was in Kyiv when the invasion started - and unlike the Russians in Crimea I doubt he was there on holidays.

 

[dairyfloss]

You'd have to be kidding yourself if you think that the U.S. doesn't have eyes on everything that is happening, in every place, and at every level. They most likely have operatives on the ground, as well, but no-one can talk about anything that they might or might not be doing, lest it be cause for reprisal from the invaders

 

[jrfsp]

The last thing we need is NATO involvement - it would mean full world war escalation.

Dutton saying it could get nasty in the next few weeks.....he has been so busy harking on about China for the last few years and has been completely blindsided by Russia (along with much of Europe)

 

[burmans]

Awesome. Get that all done in time to keep everyone alive and you'll make a fortune.

Not suggesting it will happen overnight but I do think this may be the straw that breaks the camels back in terms of countries realising that fuel security really is a problem and maybe now is the time to remove dependence on an aggressive foreign power. Meanwhile I do think this may go on longer than many suspect, I think resistance from the Ukrainian people will go on for a long time, even if Russia wins the battle they may not win the war.

 

[PineappleSkip]

The EU is much more than an economic union these days and EU membership provides the benefits of a mutual defence obligation not unlike what NATO provides.

However Ukraine joining either, if ever it happened, would not happen quickly. NATO agreed in 2008 that Georgia and Ukraine could aspire to become members in future but there has been likewarm enthusiasm in some quarters of that bloc. Ukraine's aspirations to join either at this stage are at best problematic.

Leaving aside the polittical ramifications of a military agreement, there is already the Ukraine-EU Association Agreement, which gives Ukrainians most of the benefits of EU membership through the Deep and Comprehensive Free Trade Agreement (which also includes Moldova and Georgia). This agreement, the progressive integration of those countries into EU frameworks, and its encirclement of Russia is at the heart of the conflict. Yanukovich's refusal to sign in 2014 led to his overthrow, and that overthrow, the provisional government's signing the agreement, and lukewarm support for EU integration among Russian speakers in the South and East led to Puin's invasion of the Crimea and Donbass.

So Ukraine membership of EU is not a new thing. I'd view Zelensky's request to join the EU as a reminder of solidarity and perhaps the finger extended toards Putin.

Cheers skip

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Looks like Belarus has joined the situation with it’s troops in Ukraine. May have accidentally let slip that Russia might move through Ukraine then aim for Moldova.

Russia’s secret plot to invade second nation leaked

Russia has issued a chilling warning for Kyiv residents, ordering them to escape now ahead of a new wave of brutal attacks by “high-precision weapons” on the capital.

www.news.com.au

Wonder how many non-NATO, non-EU countries might be in their sights

 

[vetrade]

Looks like Belarus has joined the situation with it’s troops in Ukraine. May have accidentally let slip that Russia might move through Ukraine then aim for Moldova.

Russia’s secret plot to invade second nation leaked

Russia has issued a chilling warning for Kyiv residents, ordering them to escape now ahead of a new wave of brutal attacks by “high-precision weapons” on the capital.

www.news.com.au

Wonder how many non-NATO, non-EU countries might be in their sights

Moldova would make sense (from a Russian dictator's point of view) simply because its land mass fits neatly into the southern border of Ukraine

 

[drron]

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Some warfare/occupation analysis/opinion

If the past is anything to go by, Russia will struggle to occupy Ukraine | CNN

Ukraine's resistance to the Russian invasion has shown strength that has surprised many observers, but one international expert points out how historical precedent bodes poorly for Moscow's forces in the long term should it be unable to subdue the country quickly.

edition.cnn.com

 

[CaptJCool]

For those of us in far-flung places who say, this is terrible, we can stand with and support Ukraine - even small amounts of the folding stuff. are very helpful in a cheap cost country. This was provided by one of the Fringe show artists....

Support Ukraine — OLENKA

www.olenkatoroshenko.com

 

[Must...Fly!]

For those of us in far-flung places who say, this is terrible, we can stand with and support Ukraine - even small amounts of the folding stuff. are very helpful in a cheap cost country. This was provided by one of the Fringe show artists....

Support Ukraine — OLENKA

www.olenkatoroshenko.com

I donated to the Red Cross Ukraine appeal tonight. I feel terrible for the people who are otherwise very lovely and welcoming. I hope I can visit again one day, wish nothing but peace and harmony for the nation and its people