Double SC promo

[Justchecking]

Well it seems obvious to me that the promo isn't to boost sales of saver fares. It's to entice travelers into the J seats, since swanning it has already pointed out, the cheap seats are sold. Do they plan to go 100% premium? I'd be very dubious about that idea. Ozjet is defunct for a reason. it's been no secret that they want to reduce their reliance on a price-sensitive customer base, reduce doesn't mean eliminate. With a J rollout in full swing it makes sense that they are promoting that product at the moment. They need to sell J tickets otherwise they have just reduced their aircraft capacity by 4 rows (15%).

So saying that it does look weird that only certain status pax have received the offer. I would have expected it to be across the board, but then again I dont work in marketing. :-| but there are a few conclusions on here that may be premature.

1. That this is the only double SC promo we will see in the next 12 months. I personally don't think it will be. I think anytime sales lag for a particular class of fare a promo won't be far behind. This may well be just one of many. It may also have been sent only to those status pax who haven't flown in the last x weeks. Maybe they figure they won't squeeze out any extra revenue from those who fly every week anyway. Who knows...

2. That DJ doesn't care about status pax who've earnt points to get status. Well it's early days and you don't know what further plans they have in the marketing kettle. Sure being left out in the short term might feel sucky but I wouldn't call it a trend or a plan until you've seenk what your status has brought you over a a full membership year.

 

[medhead]

Seems a few BIS Virgin statused members are not happy with the efforts to transform the program and attract high values customers from the competition. There are a number (some, most? I'm not nominating how many) of statused QFF people who are not impressed about the message QF is providing (notwithstanding recent events). I think VFFs efforts to attract these customers should be praised. Getting such customers allows DJ to expand their whole operation including making improvements in lounges and food and such. So really looking at the big picture - initiatives to attract new customers, like status matches and double SC, will benefit all members in the long run.

Now you might think DJ are taking the long term BIS customers for granted. But remember that QF are not going to give you any incentives to attract your business.

 

[rockyroad]

Seems a few BIS Virgin statused members are not happy with the efforts to transform the program and attract high values customers from the competition. There are a number (some, most? I'm not nominating how many) of statused QFF people who are not impressed about the message QF is providing (notwithstanding recent events). I think VFFs efforts to attract these customers should be praised. Getting such customers allows DJ to expand their whole operation including making improvements in lounges and food and such. So really looking at the big picture - initiatives to attract new customers, like status matches and double SC, will benefit all members in the long run.

Now you might think DJ are taking the long term BIS customers for granted. But remember that QF are not going to give you any incentives to attract your business.

All DJ are doing is to get their new status matches to move out of their comfort zone (I mean just because you are status matched does not mean you will automatically modify your airline spending patterns engrained after many years and miles of flying with QF and OW) and start doing some DJ miles.

 

[777]

Seems a few BIS Virgin statused members are not happy with the efforts to transform the program and attract high values customers from the competition. There are a number (some, most? I'm not nominating how many) of statused QFF people who are not impressed about the message QF is providing (notwithstanding recent events). I think VFFs efforts to attract these customers should be praised. Getting such customers allows DJ to expand their whole operation including making improvements in lounges and food and such. So really looking at the big picture - initiatives to attract new customers, like status matches and double SC, will benefit all members in the long run.

Clearly you haven't bothered to read the specific criticisms. I am not unhappy with Virgin's attempts to attract new customers. I am not upset with them offering offer status matches.

I am specifically upset with the combination of wiping long standing members Status Credits with the introduction of the new Platinum tier while offering accelerated status earns to newcomers. I think that's a bad combination because the combined impact of the two things places Virgin's long standing flyers at a disadvantaged postion compared to newcomers in the relaunched program. If longstanding members were on an equal footing OR if they were able to carry their status credits forward i wouldn't be complaining.

 

[QF WP]

All DJ are doing is to get their new status matches to move out of their comfort zone (I mean just because you are status matched does not mean you will automatically modify your airline spending patterns engrained after many years and miles of flying with QF and OW) and start doing some DJ miles.

Totally agree. Given we are uncertain about most things VA - from using the web site, to seating (we don't have PE on QF domestically), Lounges, etc - this may be the catalyst to get us to the next level - moving some if not all of our flying spend to VA.

After all, they really don't want us to use their Lounge whilst continuing to fly QF, that would make for a very expensive status match program

 

[rockyroad]

...I am specifically upset with the combination of wiping long standing members Status Credits with the introduction of the new Platinum tier while offering accelerated status earns to newcomers...

I agree that wiping legacy SCs is not a correct action on VFF's part. While how the system works may be fine post 12 months, it is not a fair way to treat BIS VA customers who gained WP via SC earn. Instead VFF should treat those legacy SCs the same way they will treat SCs earned in the future when we retain our VA WP status. IE they carry forward and do not reset when WP is first obtained.

It is not acceptable for VFF to say it must work this way because that is how the computer system works. They created the computer system in error to model the faulty T&Cs (ref our earlier comments on the VFF errors in their T & C).

Now they need to correctly handle the legacy SCs earned in the last 12 months.

 

[medhead]

Clearly you haven't bothered to read the specific criticisms. I am not unhappy with Virgin's attempts to attract new customers. I am not upset with them offering offer status matches.

I am specifically upset with the combination of wiping long standing members Status Credits with the introduction of the new Platinum tier while offering accelerated status earns to newcomers. I think that's a bad combination because the combined impact of the two things places Virgin's long standing flyers at a disadvantaged postion compared to newcomers in the relaunched program. If longstanding members were on an equal footing OR if they were able to carry their status credits forward i wouldn't be complaining.

Your first statement is contradicted by the rest of the post. If you are upset a combination of things including accelerated status earn then yes you are unhappy with the attempts to attract new customers.

As for the status wipe. I didn't really understand what happened with all that and I didn't follow (understand) the calculations given in the other thread. I'm not sure it is a simple as a wipe because my account is currently showing 2 counters - status since making platinum and status in the last 12 months. I've also been given a full 12 months at platinum after progressing upwards. You didnt get the same? But whatever that is a complete separate issue. Haven't VFF fixed you up anyway.

 

[rockyroad]

Your first statement is contradicted by the rest of the post. If you are upset a combination of things including accelerated status earn then yes you are unhappy with the attempts to attract new customers.

As for the status wipe. I didn't really understand what happened with all that and I didn't follow (understand) the calculations given in the other thread. I'm not sure it is a simple as a wipe because my account is currently showing 2 counters - status since making platinum and status in the last 12 months. I've also been given a full 12 months at platinum after progressing upwards. You didnt get the same? But whatever that is a complete separate issue. Haven't VFF fixed you up anyway.

Existing VFF Golds, who earn Platinum, get a new earning year from the date they become Platinum. That resets their new earning year SC count to zero. When they next requalify for VFF WP, however there is no SC reset to zero.

I assume VFF do this to limit the initial WP to 12 moths from the WP obtain date, instead of the rest of the members normal year + 12 months as happens with QF.

 

[777]

Your first statement is contradicted by the rest of the post. If you are upset a combination of things including accelerated status earn then yes you are unhappy with the attempts to attract new customers.

There is no contradiction at all there. I am not upset with VA's offering status matches, or aggressively pursuing new customers. I am upset by the unequal playing field created by how they have introduced the new system. Those of us who had surplus status credits have had them taken away while some of those who have never flown VA before have had their SC earn doubled by this promotion. I think it's reasonable to point out that that's harsh on their most loyal customers.

Let me give you an example to explain what i'm drawing attention to.

Let's say Person A is a BIS VFF who had 1450 SC's on the date that platinum was introduced. They were immediately given platinum for 12 months (which "costs" 1000 SCs) and in an anomaly caused by the changeover they simply lost the 450 extra SC's they had above that threshold. [Many probably did not realise the second part and thought (or still think) that their old status credits will count towards the new benefits such as partner gold.]

Let's say Person B is a SM'ed VFF who only had 50 SC's with Virgin before the changeover. As a result of their status in another program they have been given platinum so they have have effectively (to use SC's as a kind of currency) been gifted 950 SCs.

Net result is Person A is Platinum and down -450 SC's. Person B is Platinum and up +950 SC's. I have noted this in previous posts here but not really complained about it - it's the price for seeing the airline move on. However I do think it's pushing the friendship that this promotion further entrenches the disparity. Person B is now eligible for double SC earns while person A has probably not yet got back to where they would have been if their old credits had counted towards their new benefits or if PG or PP had been calculated based on their old membership year.

As for the status wipe. I didn't really understand what happened with all that and I didn't follow (understand) the calculations given in the other thread. I'm not sure it is a simple as a wipe because my account is currently showing 2 counters - status since making platinum and status in the last 12 months. I've also been given a full 12 months at platinum after progressing upwards. You didnt get the same? But whatever that is a complete separate issue.

It isn't that hard to understand. Any status credits BIS flyers had over and above the platinum threshold were wiped regardless of how long was remaining in their membership year. They don't count for anything. By observing the second counter (points earned in the last 12 months) you are making the same mistake many of us did - assuming that that counter has some value. At the time that the new benefits were introduced i think few of us appreciated that this number meant nothing towards the additional bonuses that Virgin had introduced.

Haven't VFF fixed you up anyway.

Yes, and i am very happy about that. It doesn't change the fact that there is a structural issue though.

 

[Australian]

OK: I'm going to stick my head out here, having come back back to the forums after a certain time away ... but i can't help feel as i read through so many of the posts on this thing just how much of a blind sense of 'entitlement' there seems to be amongst at least some pockets of the community ... (nd not just this specific discussion, but others (the QFFCEO event thread(!!!), for example))

yes, yes, i know i'm now going to be flamed! but it's a free world and we're all allowed to say what we think (or argue about what we think we're entitled to! ) ... but i guess i wanted to 'air it' -- sometimes when things are left unspoken, the vacuum that is created is a bubble, so there's my 5c~

 

[serfty]

...

But it would be nice to be offered and told I am loved. I guess the lack of love between QFF and me is pretty much mutual.

Not sure about Qantas, but am feeling the love of the Virgin Australia Double SC offer this thread relates to.

 

[rockyroad]

...It doesn't change the fact that there is a structural issue though.

Yes there is a structural issue that is caused by the earning year resetting to the current date when ever the next status tier is achieved for the first time. What should happen is the status review period should not reset upon a tier upgrade. That would stop the current year earned SCs from being set to zero. The cost to VFF would be an extended period under the new status tier being the rest of the existing earning period plus the 12 months of the next earning period.

 

[777]

OK: I'm going to stick my head out here, having come back back to the forums after a certain time away ... but i can't help feel as i read through so many of the posts on this thing just how much of a blind sense of 'entitlement' there seems to be amongst at least some pockets of the community ... (nd not just this specific discussion, but others (the QFFCEO event thread(!!!), for example))

yes, yes, i know i'm now going to be flamed! but it's a free world and we're all allowed to say what we think (or argue about what we think we're entitled to! ) ... but i guess i wanted to 'air it' -- sometimes when things are left unspoken, the vacuum that is created is a bubble, so there's my 5c~

There's a huge difference between a sense of "entitlement" and pointing out the flaws in a system. I am not claiming "entitlement" to this promotion or any other benefit but i am pointing out that the coughulative effects of several changes has been to disadvantage long serving and loyal customers relative to new and comparatively infrequent ones.

Correct me if i'm wrong but I don't think anyone has really disputed that?

The nature of the discussion seems to be about whether it's necessary, whether it's all for the greater good, or whether we should all not comment on it because stuff like that happens. FWIW I think it may be necessary, it may be in the greater good, and yes, stuff like this does happen - doesn't mean it shouldn't be pointed out though.

 

[oz_mark]

Yes, and i am very happy about that. It doesn't change the fact that there is a structural issue though.

While we've probably drifted quite a way from the original topic, I would have thought this was more a transitional issue than a structural one though.

 

[Taezar]

My two cents - probably worth less than that though.

I think that this promo is targeting the recent match and getting them fly DJ to keep or jump their status. We will be more likely to pick the flexi or PE fares because we want the most points in the least possible time - therefore paying full fares for the opportunity. This increases their yield per seat and locks in the higher paying pax up to 2 months out - perfect for planning.

It also encourages us to book our Christmas holidays - at least one leg of it - with Virgin for those points - again probably buying the flexi or PE ticket.

It has already impacted my choice of airline for 2 trips. It would be more but the cost of changing my red-e deal QF fares is almost the same as what I paid for them in the first place.

 

[777]

While we've probably drifted quite a way from the original topic, I would have thought this was more a transitional issue than a structural one though.

By structural i mean one with the underlying process as opposed to a personal gripe that i should get x or y or z. I agree it is transitional - it is one-off slug to existing FF'ers and it will be flushed of the system in 12 months whether Virgin actively chooses to address it or not.

 

[straitman]

Earned my platinum the hard way and looks like I will have to requalify the hard way. I think it sucks and will make me rethink my flying preferences in the future.

.... and you expect to get a better deal from whom :?:

People have had exactly the same criticism of Qantas in the past.

 

[The Rok]

.... and you expect to get a better deal from whom :?:

People have had exactly the same criticism of Qantas in the past.

I don't EXPECT to get a better deal from Qantas, I do however EXPECT to be treated the same as other VFF Platinums. I don't believe that is too much to ask.

 

[straitman]

I don't EXPECT to get a better deal from Qantas, I do however EXPECT to be treated the same as other VFF Platinums. I don't believe that is too much to ask.

My comment was referring to your line: I think it sucks and will make me rethink my flying preferences in the future.

The question I was asking was where will you rethink to?

I am quite sure you are not the only individual who is being treated a little differently to others but unfortunately that's how it works. I did not get offered the double SCs unfortunately but once again that's how it works. Many of our experiences are a little different and not always to our liking.

 

[awilcockson]

5c~

is it wrong that when I scanned through this thread my first thought was "how did you find a QF metal flight that earns 5 SCs?" ?

I think I need a break from AFF...