Downgraded from Business Class on Qantas due to "tech crew" [pilot] Travel Requirements

[Peasant]

What an awful experience. Qantas has a plethora of issues, but this is not something I’ve witnessed or heard about before. To be taken off the aircraft in that way, before being downgraded, is not something I’d forget in a hurry.

Based on my recent experiences with customer care, I’d say there’s almost no point whatsoever in raising your complaint via them. They seem completely inept and seem to have absolutely zero interest or ability to investigate matters and then provide a transparent investigation outcome to the complainant.

Perhaps it’s worth trying to raise this via Andrew Finch, who heads up the office of the CEO, among other things. I gather there’s a high-level complaints investigation team that sits below him.

 

[exceladdict]

What an awful experience. Qantas has a plethora of issues, but this is not something I’ve witnessed or heard about before. To be taken off the aircraft in that way, before being downgraded, is not something I’d forget in a hurry.

Based on my recent experiences with customer care, I’d say there’s almost no point whatsoever in raising your complaint via them. They seem completely inept and seem to have absolutely zero interest or ability to investigate matters and then provide a transparent investigation outcome to the complainant.

Perhaps it’s worth trying to raise this via Andrew Finch, who heads up the office of the CEO, among other things. I gather there’s a high-level complaints investigation team that sits below him.

Agree, even if the upgrade was genuine error and clearly mishandled, surely there are some conversations to be had about behaviour in the lounge and tardiness in boarding an "on duty" flight

 

[madrooster]

Is any consideration given to loading in subsequent flights? Seems like a very disruptive process, but I am guessing this is enshrined in an enterprise agreement and this is just how it is handled operationally? I'm surprised it doesn't cause more consternation

Seems like if they were in the airport earlier it couldn't have been too last minute of an arrangement

The fact that the ADL-MEL flight was held suggests there was a moving target at MEL or another port as to whether these tech crew, who were possibly reserve tech crew, were required in MEL/another port or not and only on being told that they were required were they then boarded and therefore 2x commercial pax downgraded. Putting them on a subsequent flight would have likely caused flow on effects at said other port.

These crew could've very well turned up at the airport earlier on the basis that they were operating a flight ex-ADL and then the situation changed and they were required ex-another port eg. MEL.

You have to remember that operationally, things can change very quickly and therefore an oversell situation can happen even 10 mins before departure. Yes, it's not a great situation, but what do you do? Downgrading 2 pax beats delaying or cancelling an entire flight. You can't please everyone in such a situation so you go for what's going to cause the least damage. You can debate whether it could've been handled better... but in reality, even burning time on discussing compensation in the jetbridge delays the flight when you have a flight full of pax who may have connections.

 

[drron]

However even if it was tech crew who bumped @ Pushka the handling of the situation was pathetic. Why not tell the customer the truth. Most of us could handle the truth. Those that can't would probably not be fling on that flight.
For me it is just another nail in QF's coffin.
Mrsdrron will lose her WP status at the end of the year and unlikely to get it back so nothing then to stop us switching to VA even though she has a bit of history with them.
And accumulating velocity points gives us an extra chance to use our favourite airline out of BNE - SQ.

 

[dk4]

I'd say the upgrade system somehow caused a double issue of those boarding passes. It sort of makes sense, removing you from the seats was to reduce the embarassment once QF determined someone else had BPs with the same seat numbers and were likely revenue passengers so suddenly they became priority.

If that's what happened, surely modern flight res systems don't do this? That's one hell of a screw up... I'd be milking this for points.

Speaking of modern flight reservation systems, haha... Something similar happened to me on AA a few years back

I had an overnight planned in NYC, but due to issues that day with late flights and missed connections, I ended up in Boston overnight instead. The BOS station manager gave me the details for a hotel where AA would pay for me to stay that night, and to make things easy the next day, he also checked me in and printed my BP for my departures the following morning (to save me time when I came back the next day).

So, the next day I arrive at BOS; through TSA security with my BP no problems, into the Admirals Club with my BP no problems, get to the gate and my BP doesn't work! Gate agent tells me there is someone else allocated to my (paid domestic first class) seat. Luckliy the other passenger hadn't boarded yet, so the gate agent asks me to stand aside while she investigates.

Turns out, even though the station manager had checked me in to the flight the day before, the system had automatically cancelled my ticket overnight, and an EXP had been given an upgrade into my seat that morning, as it was then showing as empty in their system.

Anyway, a massive amounts of typing into the computer later, and I am back in the seat which I paid for. Then one angry EXP was paged and told his upgrade had been cancelled, and was issued a new boarding pass for main cabin. All sorts of dissatisfaction comments coming out of his mouth.

So, yes, I am going with potential system failure somewhere too.

I have also been kicked out of a domestic upgrade seat on QF before, and at the gate too - by a pilot, but at least he was in uniform, and then spent the flight working on paperwork.

 

[tdimdad]

However even if it was tech crew who bumped @ Pushka the handling of the situation was pathetic. Why not tell the customer the truth. Most of us could handle the truth. Those that can't would probably not be fling on that flight.

Exactly! The current trend of corporate comms of telling as little as possible can also be damaging. Taking lead from Madrooster's comments, it would have been a lot clearer - and probably a easier to take in - if the station manager (?) would have said something like "I'm terribly sorry but we need to move you back to the main cabin. There are two staff members directed to MEL and their EBA specifies J travel when on duty. This unfortunately has forced you us to cancel and refund your upgrade."

Given that the station manager would have seen that Pushka certainly has enough miles behind to have seen all kinds of disruptions, just being open about it would have been a fair way to go. An unfortunate situation but how it's handled will make or break it.

 

[Pushka]

I have also been kicked out of a domestic upgrade seat on QF before, and at the gate too - by a pilot, but at least he was in uniform, and then spent the flight working on paperwork.

Yes, I think it was an accumulation of events that made this distasteful. We’d seen the two people who we’d been bumped for in the lounge and had to move away as they were very noisy. They were in the lounge for the same time as us yet the plane was delayed because they were late, potentially arguing upstairs. We were removed from the plane! We’d been sitting there for 20 minutes. Why leave it so late when there were numerous check points. That was embarrassing like we’d done something wrong. In reverting back to Y we lost our two aisle seats I’d selected ages ago and got stuck in the middle with most rows having a spare middle seat.

A pilot - absolutely look after them. They deserve J. But they weren’t.

 

[Pushka]

Just received the offer to upgrade for flight home. Ah, pass. We will cancel this night flight and fly back on the day flight with Jetstar.

 

[madrooster]

A pilot - absolutely look after them. They deserve J. But they weren’t.

How can you be so sure they weren't tech crew?

 

[openseat]

It says volumes about the culture of QF. The deception of "pilots", etc. Quite expected from an almost monopolistic company that has the government in its pocket.

 

[Pushka]

How can you be so sure they weren't tech crew?

Just saying they weren’t pilots based on the loud conversations in the QP. But even if they were the whole process was a customer service fail. Their status was known 90 minutes before the flight. They’d checked in. We’d checked in. We’d scanned to board the plane. Should have been picked up so many times not left to the literal last minute to remove us from the plane. If that’s ok to do to customers, and we are both WP although status irrelevant then Qantas doesn’t deserve our loyalty.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Just saying they weren’t pilots based on the loud conversations in the QP. But even if they were the whole process was a customer service fail.

I think @madrooster’s theory is most probably the correct one.

But I completely agree with you that how it was handled should have been far better.
Telling you the reason for the downgrade would have taken all of 30 seconds.

 

[Mzungu]

I have heard of Emirates shifting passengers to give locals J seats, but Qantas, really!
I'd complain about this and their boorish behaviour, particularly if they are airline management?
An escort through immigration is hardly compensation. Big deal ...
Was it a good explanation as to why you should shift? And why you and not some other poor mug?

I've had a similar situation a few times in EK F, going to CMN in particular and once when returning to MEL where entitled Emiratis made a big fuss upon boarding about wanting a window seat. Each time a rather embarrassed FA came round to the window seats and asked if the passenger was prepared to move for them.

I always book a window seat, and each time I was asked, my reply was "Nup, I have lived too long in Dubai to ever give people like that any sort of concession. My apologies to you, but I'm staying put!" I always got a gleeful grin in response and a "Yes, I do understand". I never saw any window passengers move for them.

I'm a firm believer in not giving over-entitled people what they expect to be given. Such people are usually men, but I have seen women try it too. And yes, I have Y chromosomes in my genes!

And I also ceased flying Qantas decade's ago. They are truly hopeless and unable to improve. Their apologists are both pathetic and hilarious!

 

[Pushka]

I think @madrooster’s theory is most probably the correct one.

But I completely agree with you that how it was handled should have been far better.
Telling you the reason for the downgrade would have taken all of 30 seconds.

If the explanation is that simple then why insist we exit the plane? If it’s a common and accepted occurrence to do that then that was completely unnecessary. To be honest that was the bit that rankles. They only do that to disruptive people. Or people who sit in business class when their ticket isn’t business class. I think that it should have been made clear to those around us that we’d done nothing wrong. But we felt like we had. Brings a new light on the Walk of Shame.

 

[RooFlyer]

Your scenario sounds like tech crew (could be either mainline or QantasLink, but most likely QantasLink if they were quite young) trumped you as they were on duty travel. Tech crew on duty travel are booked directly into J, even if the cabin is already full. This creates an oversell situation which is usually rectified with downgrading commercial pax and that almost always will be someone in U class as they are the lowest commercial value pax in J.

The fact that the ADL-MEL flight was held suggests there was a moving target at MEL or another port as to whether these tech crew, who were possibly reserve tech crew, were required in MEL/another port or not and only on being told that they were required were they then boarded and therefore 2x commercial pax downgraded. Putting them on a subsequent flight would have likely caused flow on effects at said other port.

I think @madrooster’s theory is most probably the correct one.

I think the 'tech crew on stand by' theory fails, as they checked in for the flight as the same time as Pushka and +1, 90 mins prior to the flight departing. If they were entitled to travel J as tech crew, wouldn't that have happened at check-in, with Pushka maybe getting a page in the lounge with the bad news? They were in the lounge (and a bit rowdy, it seems) for the same time as Pushka.

And anyway, why would tech crew on 'stand by' with uncertain need to travel, be checked in for any particular flight 90 mins prior?

Sorry, I think we need a better explanation.

 

[Princess Fiona]

I think the 'tech crew on stand by' theory fails, as they checked in for the flight as the same time as Pushka and +1, 90 mins prior to the flight departing. If they were entitled to travel J as tech crew, wouldn't that have happened at check-in, with Pushka maybe getting a page in the lounge with the bad news? They were in the lounge (and a bit rowdy, it seems) for the same time as Pushka.

And anyway, why would tech crew on 'stand by' with uncertain need to travel, be checked in for any particular flight 90 mins prior?

Sorry, I think we need a better explanation.

I don’t think anyone on here is going to get a better explanation.

Can’t see any Exec of QF or any other airline bumping U class pax for their mates or sons of mates to fly ahead or upgrade or whatever.
Then having the whole thing dissected online.

May well see it on the ME3, not going to happen here IMHO.

 

[madrooster]

I think the 'tech crew on stand by' theory fails, as they checked in for the flight as the same time as Pushka and +1, 90 mins prior to the flight departing.

That tech crew may have intended to be operating ex-ADL or even somewhere else originally at the time they checked in but then were asked by crewing to go to MEL post check in. Such situations can happen.

 

[prozac]

I don’t think anyone on here is going to get a better explanation.

Can’t see any Exec of QF or any other airline bumping U class pax for their mates or sons of mates to fly ahead or upgrade or whatever.
Then having the whole thing dissected online.

May well see it on the ME3, not going to happen here IMHO.

ME3?

 

[Princess Fiona]

ME3?

Middle East carriers
EK, EY and QR

 

[Peasant]

I don’t think anyone on here is going to get a better explanation.

Can’t see any Exec of QF or any other airline bumping U class pax for their mates or sons of mates to fly ahead or upgrade or whatever.
Then having the whole thing dissected online.

May well see it on the ME3, not going to happen here IMHO.

Completely agree. And with clearly defined technology, processes and governance, I’d imagine it’s not easy to circumvent.

That said, there was a well documented case a few years ago where the current CEO of Loyalty refused to move from her serviceable F seat to swap with a fare-paying Platinum whose seat was not working, instead berating staff for even making the request of her. Not that this is necessarily the same or similar situation, however.