Ethiopian 737 Max 8 crash and Fallout

[Berlin]

The 787 batteries haven't actually been fixed...they've just been placed into a very strong box from which they can't burn their way out. As that's the backup power source for the aircraft, I wonder how long it will be before that catches someone out

You’re saying...?

Frantically checking my upcoming flight bookings, I think there’s a couple of Nightmare-Liners in there

 

[Himeno]

Is ET sending the flight recorder orange boxes to France’s BEA (their transport accident investigation authority) a strategic snub at the FAA/NTSB and Boeing?

Were the Lion Air black boxes sent to the NTSB?

 

[Berlin]

Apparently, the two black boxes are already in Paris so that’s confirmed now (again, from SPIEGEL, so in German I’m afraid Boeing 737 Max 8: Frankreich untersucht Blackbox der abgestürzten Boeing - SPIEGEL ONLINE)

 

[RooFlyer]

Good. Then France is definitely a better choice than sending it to the US whete they’d just get rid of any evidence of maldoing on Boeing’s side.

You reckon?

 

[Berlin]

You reckon?

Yep. I definitely do. But I always appreciate differing opinions

 

[NZflygirl]

Opinion highlighting Chinas position grounding the MAX. Protecting their interests in a good way. "Boeing should thank Beijing for Grounding the 737 MAX"
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

(I don't know why it says are you a robot but it does link to the article.)

 

[Quickstatus]

Good. Then France is definitely a better choice than sending it to the US whete they’d just get rid of any evidence of maldoing on Boeing’s side.

I think that’s a bit far fetched to suggest that the NTSB would destroy evidence unfavourable to the US aviation industry. Has the NTSB ever done that in the past?.

I’m sure you understand that the NTSB are just the investigators - they dig down to the root cause and make recommendations. The NTSB also investigates the FAA. However they don’t have the power to enforce it - (which is good because they can make recommendations without regard to anyone else). Thats the FAA’s role, and it is within the FAA’s purview to disagree with the NTSB. Any prosecutions flowing from an NTSB investigations is also outside of the NTSB. The NTSB does not have any conflicting allegiances (other than being a US independent statutory body)

To then assume that the French BEA is less biased is a bit naive

 

[Berlin]

I think that’s a bit far fetched to suggest that the NTSB would destroy evidence unfavourable to the US aviation industry.

Really? I wouldn’t call that far fetched at all. But granted, the French could also have political motives.

 

[Quickstatus]

Really? I wouldn’t call that far fetched at all. But granted, the French could also have political motives.

Yes very far fetched. The NTSB historically has had a fractious relationship with the FAA - it’s not a cosy closed shop relationship and Many times in the past the FAA has disagreed with the NTSB. To say that this crash is different is not based on any historical facts

 

[Quickstatus]

Were the Lion Air black boxes sent to the NTSB?

Yes with Indonesian NTSC (their transport accident investigating arm) oversight.

The NTSC has primary investigatory role with the NTSB assisting with analysis of the Orange boxes
The FAA does not have any role in the investigation

 

[NZflygirl]

Good. Then France is definitely a better choice than sending it to the US whete they’d just get rid of any evidence of maldoing on Boeing’s side.

I read something on Quora about how it's pretty impossible to alter data as inconsistencies would be found. They match the voice recordings with the flight data, data from external sources and findings on the ground, may jump in simulators to check scenarios etc as everything has to line up from these various sources.

Also, it may take a bit of work to repair the damage prior to the readout. So maybe it will take a bit longer to get some info.

 

[JB expat]

just listened to a news podcast - summed it up nicely - FAA said it needed confirming data; other countries acted with an abundance of caution. I know which approach I like better as a flying passenger.

 

[Quickstatus]

other countries acted with an abundance of caution.

When I hear this Im reminded of the airlines mantra “safety is our number one priority.

 

[RooFlyer]

Yep. I definitely do. But I always appreciate differing opinions

I'll assume you are having a bit of a leg pull. If not, do take a close look at QS's notes re the difference between the NTSB and the FAA, and how they interact.

To suggest that the NTSB would corrupt an accident investigation for political or national motives is just too ludicrous.

 

[Quickstatus]

I am sure they have powerful clients. But so does Airbus. The question is who are those powerful clients that coerced them not to build from the ground up?

Boeing and Air is are in the business of selling airplanes. They work closely with the airlines because the airlines are the customer and it is in the interests of both to create an aircraft that is what the industry wants.

 

[pauly7]

It could probably be argued that the 787 battery problems are part of the same malaise. A quite suspect engineering decision initially, followed up with a barely acceptable fix. And this is on a brand new aircraft.

And how many people would be getting on 787s if those battery problems had resulted in the loss of two aircraft, and given their loadings, many more lives. Remember too, that many regulatory authorities are allowing 787 to operate around 5 hours from the nearest spot that they could land in the event of a problem.

The 787 batteries haven't actually been fixed...they've just been placed into a very strong box from which they can't burn their way out. As that's the backup power source for the aircraft, I wonder how long it will be before that catches someone out. All because they wanted to save the weight involved in fitting a RAT. Which doesn't catch fire.

Gulp as I board another SFO QF flight!
Would you fly a QF 787 jb747?

 

[Mattg]

Interestingly ET has not retired “302” as is common practice after a crash

Yes they have. That ADD-NBO flight is now ET318.

 

[PineappleSkip]

UNEA4, which many of the passengers were travelling ti, would have been a strange and hollow conference ... got this report from devex today.

At least 45 employees of humanitarian and development organizations died in the tragic crash of Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302, which was flying the popular route from Addis Ababa, Ethiopia, to Nairobi, Kenya, when its pilots lost control of the plane. Many of the passengers were on their way to the U.N. Environment Assembly, UNEA4, and their sudden loss weighed heavily on colleagues who struggled to move forward with work they had planned to do together. Some told Devex they felt renewed commitment to deliver on the goals their colleagues had shared, while others admitted to finding the politics of a U.N. conference hard to stomach in the wake of such a devastating experience. A U.N. spokesperson confirmed to Devex that 22 of its staff were on board the plane. Nine passengers worked for the African Union. Organizations including the Norwegian Refugee Council and Red Cross, CARE, Catholic Relief Services, Save the Children Denmark, the World Bank, and Swedish International Development Cooperation Agency also reported that they lost colleagues.

 

[ozfflyer]

just got email from Southwest CEO re 737 max.

In part it says .............................

"U.S. airlines operate within the most advanced, regulated aviation system in the world "

Do they or is this just more hype ?

 

[Must...Fly!]

just got email from Southwest CEO re 737 max.

In part it says .............................

"U.S. airlines operate within the most advanced, regulated aviation system in the world "

Do they or is this just more hype ?

737 MAX 8 Update - Southwest Airlines

There is a ton of data collected, which we continuously monitor. In all of our analysis since our first flight in 2017, nothing has presented any flight safety concerns.

Yeah ok, we know that's a furphy based on the anonymous submissions through to the FAA.

Based on all the extensive data that we, our U.S. counterparts, and the FAA have access to, there is no reason to question the safety of our MAX airplanes. That makes sense because that’s the way our aerospace and aviation system is designed to work. History proves—air travel is extraordinarily safe.

Right...

Which takes us to the question of, what happened with Ethiopian Flight 302? We don’t know. We aren’t learning fast enough. So, we have a temporary grounding.

Is this guy for real?

What a long winded exercise in chest beating (that's how it seems to me). Just issue a statement that says "Safety is the number one priority at Southwest, and we have taken the directive of the manufacturer Boeing and the FAA to ground our aircraft while they further investigate the circumstances around the tragic crash of Ethiopian Airlines. We apologise for any inconvenience."

Simple, isn't it?